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Work permit not required to rent out condos, confirms Phuket labour chief


webfact

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Renting a condo for one month or longer (90% want 3 months minimum) involves a deposit, signing a lease, rent in advance, you often Connect and pay for your own power.

Why would someone on holidays want all that drama. Why would the landlord want all that drama.

Long term rentals are just that, long term.

And you are paying the cheaper long term rate.

This issue is about short term rentals in residential condo blocks, and what the authorities can do / will do to stop it.

You keep banging on about long term rental.

To my knowledge, there is no legal requirement for a condo owner to demand a signed lease, a deposit, rent in advance, the electric in the tenants name etc for ANY lease, after all, they own the property.

So this is no deterrent to 1 month holiday rentals that are really for 2 weeks.

How do police catch drug dealers, they usually pretend to be drug buyers. maybe they could do something similar with short term accom providers. Maybe the police will get the jurastic person involved. I"m sure they will work it out.

The percentage of westerners doing short term rentals is probably very small, and the percentage doing it from outside Thailand even smaller.

All is not lost. the small percentage of westerners can now switch to long term rental, and as discussed a potential customer base of 67,000,000 Thai people and 300,000 expats. They should be able to cover their condo fees.

Most will probably prefer a long term tennant and income, and wont be bothered renting out for 2 weeks and calling it a month.

Every Condo I have ever rented has required a signed lease and a deposit. Thats pretty normal for long term rental. It protects the tenant and the owner.

"Most will probably prefer a long term tennant and income, and wont be bothered renting out for 2 weeks and calling it a month." - I agree, but that that WAS Phuket, not what Phuket is NOW.

Have you considered the fact there are currently 2000 condo's and 300 houses for sale on Phuket, right now, and who knows how many for rent as well. The owners are not living in all of them. Many are vacant.

This all makes for a lot of Phuket property sitting around, not being liquidated, and not earning. All the while, more are being built. There are long term consequences to this for the Phuket property market.

To stop short term rentals just takes away a part of the earning potential of a property.

I asked the question before, yet to get an answer. Haven't ALL condo owners got a vested interest in keeping the short term rental option open to them for the future, should their circumstances change?

Even the old timers who say, "When I die I'm leaving the missus the property." Well, won't you be leaving a property with diminished use rights?

I've taken some ridicule on these two threads, but I don't even own a property here. I have no financial interests in property here. In fact, as a long term renter, I am one of those to gain from this.

I have only put forward who I consider to be the winners and losers out of the enforcement of different laws, and who I see as breaking the law, and who I see as not, mainly regarding labor laws.

For me, with no financial interests in property here, all I see is a further reduction of the potential earning capacity of property here, and a restriction placed on owners to derive such an income.

NKM, I have said it before and will say it again, nobody wants to answer your questions. Most of your posts come with "?" after every sentence, do you ever stop to think that people find your constant drivel a little tedious to warrant an answer ?

In my opinion you have gone past the stage of making yourself sound like an idiot, especially since there has now been an official notice made by the head of the labour department virtually quashing this thread, yet you still continue to argue it, unbelievable !!

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@ taxin

taxin, you don't have to read my posts. Feel free to block me. Your replies, which have ZERO substance, are of little consequence to the forum.

You obviously know nothing about how the property market functions, in any country.

For the record, I am not arguing the point with either you, the forum, or the Phuket Labor Chief.

I'm glad you think this issue will just vanish because the Phuket Labor Chief has said no work permit is needed. As stated, I have no financial interest in it, so no bother to me.

You sound like one of those guys that is covered in Thai religious symbol tattoos, of which you have no idea of their meaning, trying to be more "Thai" than every other foreigner. smile.png

I can't help but ask a question now. Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here? biggrin.png

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@ taxin

taxin, you don't have to read my posts. Feel free to block me. Your replies, which have ZERO substance, are of little consequence to the forum.

You obviously know nothing about how the property market functions, in any country.

For the record, I am not arguing the point with either you, the forum, or the Phuket Labor Chief.

I'm glad you think this issue will just vanish because the Phuket Labor Chief has said no work permit is needed. As stated, I have no financial interest in it, so no bother to me.

You sound like one of those guys that is covered in Thai religious symbol tattoos, of which you have no idea of their meaning, trying to be more "Thai" than every other foreigner. smile.png

I can't help but ask a question now. Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here? biggrin.png

.."Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here ?"...

So you are a spokesperson now representing everybody on this thread ? With the exception of 1 or 2 other 3,000 baht per month renters I can assure you your on your own.

Your posts are nothing more than malicious envy towards property owners in Phuket, you need to get over it.

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authorities must investigate the management

and lawyers of patong palace management as to the

source of their information requiring foreigners to

have a work permit before being able to rent out their

condos.

such information can shake out investor confidence leading

to disastrous impact on the economy.

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Hooray - sanity prevails after so many nonsense post in the previous thread.

No, I'm sure thaivisa will be spreading some other totally inaccurate rumors again soon.

Ridiculous that a web forum that has such a long history in Thailand and promotes itself as the go to place for expats would even think that nonsense remarks in a single anonymous letter posted in a condominium foyer would overrule Thai common law.

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I must admit Im a bit surprised at the Labor Chiefs actions Today. He went out of his way to put foreigners at ease which kind of throws a spanner in the works for Thai bashes. You know , that we are all despised and not wanted here.

In fact it sends a strong message that he wants farangs to invest in Phukets future.

I applaud him for that

He thinks the same as you,self interest.

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@ taxin

taxin, you don't have to read my posts. Feel free to block me. Your replies, which have ZERO substance, are of little consequence to the forum.

You obviously know nothing about how the property market functions, in any country.

For the record, I am not arguing the point with either you, the forum, or the Phuket Labor Chief.

I'm glad you think this issue will just vanish because the Phuket Labor Chief has said no work permit is needed. As stated, I have no financial interest in it, so no bother to me.

You sound like one of those guys that is covered in Thai religious symbol tattoos, of which you have no idea of their meaning, trying to be more "Thai" than every other foreigner. smile.png

I can't help but ask a question now. Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here? biggrin.png

.."Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here ?"...

So you are a spokesperson now representing everybody on this thread ? With the exception of 1 or 2 other 3,000 baht per month renters I can assure you your on your own.

Your posts are nothing more than malicious envy towards property owners in Phuket, you need to get over it.

Make that 3.

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Of course. No relevance whatsoever between employment and owning property for investment.

Same relevance as foreign money buying local shares and receiving dividends...

lots of different ways to look at it. maybe if you have an agency doing the actual management then you are not taking a job from a thai person. another way to look at it is a thai person is being derived of income by a foreigner renting out their condo as they are not renting off a thai person. the definition for 'work' in thailand covers pretty much everything. anyway the law will just be applied how the official on the spot interprets it. this announcement means nothing anyway. infact the whole discussion is pointless as it is not possible to get a work permit to rent out condos anyway.

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Of course. No relevance whatsoever between employment and owning property for investment.

Same relevance as foreign money buying local shares and receiving dividends...

lots of different ways to look at it. maybe if you have an agency doing the actual management then you are not taking a job from a thai person. another way to look at it is a thai person is being derived of income by a foreigner renting out their condo as they are not renting off a thai person. the definition for 'work' in thailand covers pretty much everything. anyway the law will just be applied how the official on the spot interprets it. this announcement means nothing anyway. infact the whole discussion is pointless as it is not possible to get a work permit to rent out condos anyway.

"Discussion is pointless" because you cant get a WP for something you dont need a WP for.

blink.png

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@ taxin

taxin, you don't have to read my posts. Feel free to block me. Your replies, which have ZERO substance, are of little consequence to the forum.

You obviously know nothing about how the property market functions, in any country.

For the record, I am not arguing the point with either you, the forum, or the Phuket Labor Chief.

I'm glad you think this issue will just vanish because the Phuket Labor Chief has said no work permit is needed. As stated, I have no financial interest in it, so no bother to me.

You sound like one of those guys that is covered in Thai religious symbol tattoos, of which you have no idea of their meaning, trying to be more "Thai" than every other foreigner. smile.png

I can't help but ask a question now. Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here? biggrin.png

.."Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here ?"...

So you are a spokesperson now representing everybody on this thread ? With the exception of 1 or 2 other 3,000 baht per month renters I can assure you your on your own.

Your posts are nothing more than malicious envy towards property owners in Phuket, you need to get over it.

Make that 3.

I have finally worked it out.

I think NKM is actually planning on buying a condo in the future. Meanwhile, he is doing his best to talk the market down, single handedly cause the market to collapse.

Then buy in .

Very clever. thumbsup.gif

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@ taxin

taxin, you don't have to read my posts. Feel free to block me. Your replies, which have ZERO substance, are of little consequence to the forum.

You obviously know nothing about how the property market functions, in any country.

For the record, I am not arguing the point with either you, the forum, or the Phuket Labor Chief.

I'm glad you think this issue will just vanish because the Phuket Labor Chief has said no work permit is needed. As stated, I have no financial interest in it, so no bother to me.

You sound like one of those guys that is covered in Thai religious symbol tattoos, of which you have no idea of their meaning, trying to be more "Thai" than every other foreigner. smile.png

I can't help but ask a question now. Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here? biggrin.png

.."Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here ?"...

So you are a spokesperson now representing everybody on this thread ? With the exception of 1 or 2 other 3,000 baht per month renters I can assure you your on your own.

Your posts are nothing more than malicious envy towards property owners in Phuket, you need to get over it.

Make that 3.

I have finally worked it out.

I think NKM is actually planning on buying a condo in the future. Meanwhile, he is doing his best to talk the market down, single handedly cause the market to collapse.

Then buy in .

Very clever. thumbsup.gif

Ha ha ha I totally agree. I think he thought he was going to achieve that on the other thread dragging it to 15 pages and even quoting himself when things got quite lol

He is running late today usually he bundys on pretty early. probably just waiting for the morning meds to kick in laugh.png

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@NamKamgMan

"Seriously dude, how about you try to consider a scenario other than your own.

You keep using your own personal circumstances as a blanket cover for this issue for everyone else.

Open your mind"

Their are no other scenarios.

< 30 days you are arrested

>30 days your fine

"Their are no other scenarios. < 30 days you are arrested" - really????

How will they arrest a condo owner using AirBnB from his lounge room in another country???? cheesy.gif

Seriously dude - open your mind. smile.png

The condo board apparently has the right to refuse AirBnB "guests".

I did see on several condos in Bangkok that the "guests" can indeed be arrested notifying them in advance that this is not a hotel and that they could be prosecuted for trespassing.

Its not inconceivable that the police could start making AirBNB bookings and arrest the person that turns up to give them the keys.

Booking.com is probably the worst offender. you can find a lot of Condo blocks on there listed like hotels, but only one room available, and in the fineprint , a little note about someone will meet you in the foyer with the keys etc.

Booking.com is not an offender, they merely expanded their service to now include "apartments" - single units like the places on Airbnb. In your search on the booking.com website you can select whether you want to see all results (including apartments) or only real hotels. Get your facts straight!

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@ mcfish

"90% are in the country" - please provide a link for this.

"its how air bnb works," - I know how AirBnB works. The last time I used AirBnB the key to the property was under the front mat. I never met the owner for the 3 nights I was in the property, and this was in Europe, not Thailand. I had the whole place to myself.

It's your lack of knowledge of the property industry and hospitality industry that is providing the humor. Post away. smile.png

I have a place in Bangkok that I have been renting out on Air BNB occasionally for years now, Would you like me to PM you a copy of the 34k monthly BNB rental receipt?

Whats your experience with them again... Oh yeah thats right you stayed in a room once for 3 nights in Europe.

How much longer are you willing to embarrass yourself ?

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@ taxin

taxin, you don't have to read my posts. Feel free to block me. Your replies, which have ZERO substance, are of little consequence to the forum.

You obviously know nothing about how the property market functions, in any country.

For the record, I am not arguing the point with either you, the forum, or the Phuket Labor Chief.

I'm glad you think this issue will just vanish because the Phuket Labor Chief has said no work permit is needed. As stated, I have no financial interest in it, so no bother to me.

You sound like one of those guys that is covered in Thai religious symbol tattoos, of which you have no idea of their meaning, trying to be more "Thai" than every other foreigner. smile.png

I can't help but ask a question now. Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here? biggrin.png

.."Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here ?"...

So you are a spokesperson now representing everybody on this thread ? With the exception of 1 or 2 other 3,000 baht per month renters I can assure you your on your own.

Your posts are nothing more than malicious envy towards property owners in Phuket, you need to get over it.

"So you are a spokesperson now representing everybody on this thread ?" - no. Are you?

"With the exception of 1 or 2 other 3,000 baht per month renters I can assure you your on your own." - I can assure you I pay a lot more than 3000 baht a month.

"Your posts are nothing more than malicious envy towards property owners in Phuket" - I have no envy towards property owners here. Each to their own.

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@ taxin

taxin, you don't have to read my posts. Feel free to block me. Your replies, which have ZERO substance, are of little consequence to the forum.

You obviously know nothing about how the property market functions, in any country.

For the record, I am not arguing the point with either you, the forum, or the Phuket Labor Chief.

I'm glad you think this issue will just vanish because the Phuket Labor Chief has said no work permit is needed. As stated, I have no financial interest in it, so no bother to me.

You sound like one of those guys that is covered in Thai religious symbol tattoos, of which you have no idea of their meaning, trying to be more "Thai" than every other foreigner. smile.png

I can't help but ask a question now. Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here? biggrin.png

.."Tell us, how much exposure to property have you got here ?"...

So you are a spokesperson now representing everybody on this thread ? With the exception of 1 or 2 other 3,000 baht per month renters I can assure you your on your own.

Your posts are nothing more than malicious envy towards property owners in Phuket, you need to get over it.

Make that 3.

I have finally worked it out.

I think NKM is actually planning on buying a condo in the future. Meanwhile, he is doing his best to talk the market down, single handedly cause the market to collapse.

Then buy in .

Very clever. thumbsup.gif

Ahhhh, no.

Once again, no sour grapes from me on this. If anything, as a long term renter, I stand to gain from this, as more long term rentals come onto the market, there is even more downward pressure on long term rentals, yes, that includes the property you own. biggrin.png

I like the freedom renting gives me, especially in an unstable country, with dodgy foreign ownership of property laws, visa rules that can change on a whim, and poor construction methods and materials, no town planning, high ongoing management fees, surrounded by unending further development and construction of similar properties, increasing restrictions on the use of the property, and you can never sell to get out, and all of this surrounded by old and failing infrastructure.

So, there's no need for me to "talk the market down" - Phuket does a great job of depressing the property market here, all by itself. smile.png

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere, and with no rent rises in sight, and no risks and expenses that come with property ownership here, I'm actually making money out of the property market here, and I am only renting.

It's a renters market. biggrin.png

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@NKM

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere,

I dont think your piggy bank stuffed with 10 bht coins qualifies as an investment cheesy.gif

Sorry no offence but you just dont come across as an investing type but rather more of a 3k a month rental type. sad.png

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere,

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<snip>

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere, and with no rent rises in sight, and no risks and expenses that come with property ownership here, I'm actually making money out of the property market here, and I am only renting.

It's a renters market. biggrin.png

I quite agree with you NKM. I wisely decided not to start a planned condo project in Kata. Put the money overseas into a high yield fund that pays monthly dividend. Making a higher percentage than I would have with building and renting. The long term rental market is dying.

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@NKM

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere,

I dont think your piggy bank stuffed with 10 bht coins qualifies as an investment cheesy.gif

Sorry no offence but you just dont come across as an investing type but rather more of a 3k a month rental type. sad.png

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere,

The 5 million baht or so I would spend on buying a property here is making me money in a diversified portfolio offshore. Whilst yields are down, they are not heading down at the same rate as the property market on Phuket, and the 5 million baht portion of my portfolio will rebound over time, whereas, the Phuket property market never will.

Taking into account legal fees, ongoing management fees, company taxes / fees, property taxes, repairs / maintenance, and the real possibility I will not be able to liquidate it without a loss in the future, I chose to have my money earning me money elsewhere, which is paying my rent here, and some, and I do not have to carry any risk, or expenses, associated with property ownership in Thailand, and have access to the 5 million baht pretty much "at call."

I do not subscribe to the "renting is dead money" theory in Thailand. Structured correctly, "renting keeps your money alive" in Thailand. :)

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<snip>

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere, and with no rent rises in sight, and no risks and expenses that come with property ownership here, I'm actually making money out of the property market here, and I am only renting.

It's a renters market. biggrin.png

I quite agree with you NKM. I wisely decided not to start a planned condo project in Kata. Put the money overseas into a high yield fund that pays monthly dividend. Making a higher percentage than I would have with building and renting. The long term rental market is dying.

What do you consider a high yield ?

In my personal experience, a net return of 6-8% is not hard to find in thai property.

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So if I own 10 units I can live like a king in Thailand renting out , no questions asked because it's a personal agreement ? Good to know.

I've always wondered about that because the law states something like, "a foreigner can own 'A' condo in their name." Emphasis mine.

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<snip>

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere, and with no rent rises in sight, and no risks and expenses that come with property ownership here, I'm actually making money out of the property market here, and I am only renting.

It's a renters market. biggrin.png

I quite agree with you NKM. I wisely decided not to start a planned condo project in Kata. Put the money overseas into a high yield fund that pays monthly dividend. Making a higher percentage than I would have with building and renting. The long term rental market is dying.

I have been ridiculed on this forum, but the buying property in Thailand goes way beyond the "a foreigner can't own land in Thailand" debate.

It's really not rocket science to pull out a calculator and see what your money can earn you in different investments, and have the ability to spend that money on residing here.

In my case, there's money left over each month, which I can either use to fund a better lifestyle, reinvest, or use to upgrade to a nicer rental property.

Why would I put this money into a property here, and basically lose control of it? I would be putting myself at the mercy of the Phuket property market, with no need to, at all.

A foreigner who owns a property in Thailand has no more rights to living in Thailand than I do, as a long term renter. living here on tourist visas.

I have tried to see the benefits of property ownership here, but the figures on my calculator, along with all the for sale signs, political instability, also the fact that I am under 50 years of age, over development, no town planning, poor infrastructure, poor construction methods and materials, and yes - foreign ownership of land laws, cheaper rental properties coming onto the market, no rent increases in 2 years, etc etc - I just can't see any benefit in buying here.

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<snip>

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere, and with no rent rises in sight, and no risks and expenses that come with property ownership here, I'm actually making money out of the property market here, and I am only renting.

It's a renters market. biggrin.png

I quite agree with you NKM. I wisely decided not to start a planned condo project in Kata. Put the money overseas into a high yield fund that pays monthly dividend. Making a higher percentage than I would have with building and renting. The long term rental market is dying.

What do you consider a high yield ?

In my personal experience, a net return of 6-8% is not hard to find in thai property.

"a net return of 6-8% is not hard to find in thai property." - well, we are talking about Phuket property, and I would suggest 6-8% returns are going to be harder to make here in the future, but the real issue is the owner is sitting on a depreciating asset, and one that probably will not be able to be sold, unless at a substantial loss.

It's this loss at sale that is the unknown here, and can really change your figures.

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<snip>

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere, and with no rent rises in sight, and no risks and expenses that come with property ownership here, I'm actually making money out of the property market here, and I am only renting.

It's a renters market. biggrin.png

I quite agree with you NKM. I wisely decided not to start a planned condo project in Kata. Put the money overseas into a high yield fund that pays monthly dividend. Making a higher percentage than I would have with building and renting. The long term rental market is dying.

I have been ridiculed on this forum, but the buying property in Thailand goes way beyond the "a foreigner can't own land in Thailand" debate.

It's really not rocket science to pull out a calculator and see what your money can earn you in different investments, and have the ability to spend that money on residing here.

In my case, there's money left over each month, which I can either use to fund a better lifestyle, reinvest, or use to upgrade to a nicer rental property.

Why would I put this money into a property here, and basically lose control of it? I would be putting myself at the mercy of the Phuket property market, with no need to, at all.

A foreigner who owns a property in Thailand has no more rights to living in Thailand than I do, as a long term renter. living here on tourist visas.

I have tried to see the benefits of property ownership here, but the figures on my calculator, along with all the for sale signs, political instability, also the fact that I am under 50 years of age, over development, no town planning, poor infrastructure, poor construction methods and materials, and yes - foreign ownership of land laws, cheaper rental properties coming onto the market, no rent increases in 2 years, etc etc - I just can't see any benefit in buying here.

You have your reasons for renting etc.

Can I ask what return you are getting on different investments, as a percentage.

Part of the reason I brought here was a reasonable return compared to bank 3% or stock market 4%. If I can find another investment with a high return. I would move my money there.

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<snip>

All things taken into account, particularly the money I am making investing the capital elsewhere, and with no rent rises in sight, and no risks and expenses that come with property ownership here, I'm actually making money out of the property market here, and I am only renting.

It's a renters market. biggrin.png

I quite agree with you NKM. I wisely decided not to start a planned condo project in Kata. Put the money overseas into a high yield fund that pays monthly dividend. Making a higher percentage than I would have with building and renting. The long term rental market is dying.

I have been ridiculed on this forum, but the buying property in Thailand goes way beyond the "a foreigner can't own land in Thailand" debate.

It's really not rocket science to pull out a calculator and see what your money can earn you in different investments, and have the ability to spend that money on residing here.

In my case, there's money left over each month, which I can either use to fund a better lifestyle, reinvest, or use to upgrade to a nicer rental property.

Why would I put this money into a property here, and basically lose control of it? I would be putting myself at the mercy of the Phuket property market, with no need to, at all.

A foreigner who owns a property in Thailand has no more rights to living in Thailand than I do, as a long term renter. living here on tourist visas.

I have tried to see the benefits of property ownership here, but the figures on my calculator, along with all the for sale signs, political instability, also the fact that I am under 50 years of age, over development, no town planning, poor infrastructure, poor construction methods and materials, and yes - foreign ownership of land laws, cheaper rental properties coming onto the market, no rent increases in 2 years, etc etc - I just can't see any benefit in buying here.

You have your reasons for renting etc.

Can I ask what return you are getting on different investments, as a percentage.

Part of the reason I brought here was a reasonable return compared to bank 3% or stock market 4%. If I can find another investment with a high return. I would move my money there.

I have a diversified portfolio, spread across 3 continents. Cash, property, and shares. All structured legally, for tax minimization, and my citizenship.

I do have some cash at bank, but it is not the main earner in my portfolio. Like you say, the returns for cash at bank are poor.

My portfolio is current earning, across the board, around 6.5%. In general, it is a lower to middle risk portfolio, and has been serving me well. I rarely get a shock from any particular market. I made a few quid on Brexit, but do have some property exposure to this, but its real effects are a long way off, if in fact the UK go out at all.

I could possibly earn more by investing with a higher risk, but living here, there is no need to. What I currently earn is more than enough for me.

Whilst 6.5% is modest, the good old days of double digit returns couldn't last forever, still, it's not too bad.

"Part of the reason I brought here was a reasonable return compared to bank 3% or stock market 4%." - talk about going from the kitchen into the frying pan. :)

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@ mcfish

"90% are in the country" - please provide a link for this.

"its how air bnb works," - I know how AirBnB works. The last time I used AirBnB the key to the property was under the front mat. I never met the owner for the 3 nights I was in the property, and this was in Europe, not Thailand. I had the whole place to myself.

It's your lack of knowledge of the property industry and hospitality industry that is providing the humor. Post away. smile.png

I have a place in Bangkok that I have been renting out on Air BNB occasionally for years now, Would you like me to PM you a copy of the 34k monthly BNB rental receipt?

Whats your experience with them again... Oh yeah thats right you stayed in a room once for 3 nights in Europe.

How much longer are you willing to embarrass yourself ?

I'll take you post as "No Response." :)

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