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water heater type question

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i have a new water heater, on a for my understanding good electric setup,

but it does some NOT funny things,

- sometimes it does not heat the water

- sometimes it spits hot water and steam

( even the water is NOT open and the heater RED LED is OFF )

there might be the possibility that it happens when a other water outlet is used??

can i get help to find out what type of heater it is? is there a pressure switch in the inlet pipe? or a flow sensor?

maker and model:

Electrolux EWE451BX-DW written on cover ( while some paperwork is for model AX )

http://www.electrolux.co.th/%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%A0%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%93%E0%B8%91%E0%B9%8C/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B3%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B3%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B3%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B3%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99/EWE451BX-DW/

buy from

https://www.dohome.co.th/dohome/th//ELECTROLUX/ELECTROLUX-%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B3%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B3%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99-4500-%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%8C-%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99-EWE451BX-%0ADW-%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A7/p/10164294

the Electrolux service was here already 5 times, change parts, 2 times take it out for repair, but i worry that i not only have a "lemon", what could be solved by getting them to give me a new unit,

possibly that model might be wrong type?

https://goo.gl/photos/H8EjpSTgJT8S85aZ8

https://goo.gl/photos/Qxwit5Quq7kPNwrP6

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Other water outlet? Are you using for multi-point hot water or just talking about lower flow rate because of another tap being open?

It would appear you may not have enough water flow to activate (and this is more powerful than most units which are 3.5kw so would make steam fast if flow slow).

This model does not appear to have English sales but normally there would be a flow sensor to turn off heater for low water flow - but might get some steam before there is enough cool water to stop the heating. You do have the input side flow value fully open and the filter screen is clean? Do you appear to have enough flow with cold water to get a good shower?

Have just returned an Electrolux dish washer for repair today so perhaps a bit jaded with the brand.

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thanks for answering,

-a- it's a 4.5kW heater

-b- only for this shower used ( not multi-point ) see photo

-c- in case of the 2 times experienced steaming, there was NO FLOW of the shower at all, the sink tap was possibly in operation, so my question: how this unit works? by inlet water-pressure drop it starts heating?

-d- water flow for shower operation is good, i even reduce it ( by the 2 valves )

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Without specific instructions it is hard to know exactly but normally there is a flow sensor that will cut power to heater if water flow becomes slight or none. But there are also several other methods that can be used or combined. Temp would be another sensor.

But these units are rated for a usage water pressure range and some detail this - and others do not mention it. But in general you do need good water flow for such heaters - and expect would not work most places without home water pump.

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yes, difficult to find out what's in it,

- - i just put in the (32A) FUSE again, run water and it got very hot, even the temp dial was on OFF, so that is a electronic malfunction.

- - i take the FUSE out, and test water flow, i am able to hear a kind of double click when water valve open >25%, as no electric power it can only be from a mechanic pressure switch?, while i think a turbine flow would need electronic metering and relay operation what all needs power... and still might not hear a relay clicking.

but i could not hear a click when i open the sink water flow!

- - yes, i have town water and no pump, but as reported the real dangerous events like heating without shower water operation

should never happen, and needing a pump, when supply pressure too low, has a influence on that?

i would expect that the service would have stopped repairing the heater if he thinks there is not enough water to operate that type of heater??

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What parts had the technician replaced already?

Does he leave it in a working state after fitting parts only for it to fail later?

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yes after some board and sensor changes it worked for several tests and one shower, but latest after 2 days it starts failing again,

well, i clearly need a repaired / or better new unit,

but my question is if i might need a different type anyhow, i would so choose a different brand too.

some salesman open for me several models and suggested to use:

+ only the old type copper? heater units ( but he says they heat faster what i doubt?)

+ not the one with the old overload fuse and the plastic handle to operate that fuse ( why not?)

and my wife suggests just to use one of that cheap china copies like all thai people use! ( sounds reasonable )

but i am here because of the question what types are available? and how to find out which works on what principle?

and what are the corresponding limitations?

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If you are located in Bangkok or below you may only need 3.5kw unit and I have found inexpensive Panasonic to be excellent (have 6 units of various brands - but all Japanese parent company). But you say 'town' water - does that mean a small village type source? Remember water in tanks can be very hot this time of the year during the day if they are in sun - but expect you did not have the same hot water from sink tap?

The breaker is normally RCB so very important it works (and unit still needs to be attached to real ground rod/wire). Some of the old version breakers could fail due the push up lever becoming frozen but have not seen that type in several decades (it was corrected in later versions).

http://www.lazada.co.th/panasonic-dh-3jl2th-3500-3922160.html

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A really daft question, you do have the inlet and outlet the right way round don't you (still got the instructions)?

My reason for asking is that there is what looks to be an overheat sensor on the right hand pipe, which is hooked up as the inlet.

EDIT OK belay that, found a user manual (in Vietnamese), shows it hooked up like our OP has it. That must be the flow sensor.

https://manualscollection.com/?fid=0830b042a1252017f126771ddfddf06c&read=online

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A really daft question, you do have the inlet and outlet the right way round don't you (still got the instructions)?

My reason for asking is that there is what looks to be an overheat sensor on the right hand pipe, which is hooked up as the inlet.

EDIT OK belay that, found a user manual (in Vietnamese), shows it hooked up like our OP has it. That must be the flow sensor.

https://manualscollection.com/?fid=0830b042a1252017f126771ddfddf06c&read=online

NO such thing as a daft question Crossy you know that from many of the posts on TV

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that looks like a nice unit and known brand,

but your remark RCB? means RCCB 15mA included? is ELB same?

http://electrical-engineering-portal.com/what-is-the-difference-between-mcb-mccb-elcb-and-rccb

yes, there is a earth wire connected to the unit ( and all power outlets too)

and the house also has a RCCB.

what i found there: http://www.lazada.co.th/electrolux-ewe451bxdw-aura-slim-series-4500-white-3667677.html

and google translated, sounds like my used unit has:

+ RCCB 15mA

+ flowswitch < 2l/min shutdown

+ tempswitch > 55degC shutdown

also sounds good but just don't work.

but how LAZADA know all this if at the Electrolux page is no spec at all?

so if my unit has a flow sensor what switches the heater ON if flow > 2l/min

how is that working? what type of sensors are that ( and what clicks even if there is no power? )

i also read about sister model EWE652BX-DW (Multipoint Slim Series) 6500Watt

what is the difference in sensors regarding multipoint? besides 2 valves on outlet side instead one on the inlet side?

town water

i understand about the temperature of the supply water, when the blue water pipes are along a street, not even covered by ground you can get water temperatures too hot to shower at the hot season ( like sonkran ) at early afternoon.

but what i reported is happening on the shower head only, and i not trust that unit to leave the power / fuse on anymore.

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Yes there are a dozen names for sensor breaking circuit when there is a difference between live and neutral (meaning an alternative path to ground/you may be in the circuit). Also good to have upstream. Believe multi point only indicates flow control switch installed (but perhaps better quality then on a unit not intended to operate based on flow).

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found a user manual (in Vietnamese), shows it hooked up like our OP has it. That must be the flow sensor.

https://manualscollection.com/?fid=0830b042a1252017f126771ddfddf06c&read=online

thanks, that is actually much more detailed as the available AX manuals i have,

on the water inlet ( right ) is first a sensor black with 2 brown wires (25)

and then the ?flow? sensor with many wires (24)

bad luck i not understand it,

just for fun here the google translation of the sensor 24 , 25 naming from that pdf

Putting? Ng l?

i ? c

I?

drain

t?

c burners? i chicken

.

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I live in Chiang Rai and find that the 4.5 kw heaters are not enough during cold weather. I am in the process of changing to a gas hot water heater. It will cost less to operate and will provide sufficient hot water during cold water. In Mae Si you can buy 20,000 BTU unit for 3500 Baht.

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Gas heaters used to be the only type available - and total overkill for Bangkok as had to physically block most of the gas ports to keep temp below scalding most of the year. Be very aware they need good ventilation (people were dying often when these were being used 30 years ago). And most bathrooms had open windows in those days.

Perhaps just slowing the water flow during coldest weather might be enough to make 4.5kw usable? Works for me using 3.5kw here in Bangkok and am also of a higher age and not fond of cold water showers.

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