Pattaya going downhill!

[elgenon]

16 hours ago, moonseeker said:

+ 1

I guess, who has not witnessed the good & fun years here until about 8 years ago, when everything slowly started to get worse and worse, has nothing to compare the Pattaya-today to the good old times. Just open your eyes and see all the shops closed, buildings decaying, garbage and horrible smells everywhere, not even talking about the now officially "Most happy people/country" in the world.

Gottabekidding...55555555555555

A collection of low-class tourists and cheap-charlie residents of the worst kind. Well, I am told by a friend to be more tolerant and let these old folks have their fun, so I better stop my rant and keep surfing the net for alternative destinations......MS>

 

 

You're saying this is new? Hahahaha . Holy moly if you want a sanitized life go elsewhere. 

Personally I enjoy the funkiness. If you don' t why are you here?

[i claudius]

When i came to Pattaya 24 years ago , i was told , "its changed so much ,you should have seen it 20 years ago"  yes i do miss the crowds sitting on the pavement outside the tv shop watching tv , because hardly any poorer people had one , well i could say i miss the 200 baht bar fine and the 500 baht all night girls , but i am not allowed out at night as bed time is 10 pm these days , oh how the world changes

[LennyW]

9 minutes ago, FredNL said:

Pattaya

 

Where low lifes meet low lifes.

And whose forums cockwombles troll for their jollies!

[newnative]

Chinese are already buying condos--they don't need incentives.  And, total myth that they all come in tour groups and don't spend any money.  Russians are still here--just not as many.  Supply and demand will sort out what businesses open and close--I feel we are largely getting more of what a thriving city needs.  Most new condo projects in good locations will be finished and find buyers--none that I know of in good locations has stopped construction and been abandoned.  The ones in bad locations shouldn't have been started in the first place and will suffer their fate.   Pattaya still has plenty of problems to solve, including traffic, public transportation, upgrading roads and sidewalks, law enforcement, etc., but in my six plus years here I see many more positives than negatives. Some of the positives: sidewalk improvements along Jomtien Beach, the coming of Central Festival and Harbor Malls.  Bangkok Hospital clinic in Jomtien and a new hospital in central Pattaya, upgrades started on Big C North Pattaya, new Index, Chic Republic, and Home Pro stores.  Terminal 21 construction started and, likely, Asiatique on the horizon. More families out and about and more Thai visitors from Bangkok and elsewhere.  Lots of shack-type buildings being replaced by nicer, new buildings, including lots of boutique hotels in the side sois and The Bay on Beach Road.  Big, new hotels being built, including a new one behind Big C North Pattaya and another under construction near Holiday Inn. The Base, Centric Sea, Unixx, and other new condos bringing more residents to south and central Pattaya. Great, fun new restaurants like The Chocolate Factory.  The thriving Wongamat area with a skyline that has sprung up in the last few years.  Cartoon Network water park and other new entertainment venues.  Big, Bangkok builders arriving, including Lumpini, Supalai, and Sansiri.  And, dare I say, Hooters and the Teddy Bear Museum.  .

[OMGImInPattaya]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Chinese are already buying condos--they don't need incentives.  And, total myth that they all come in tour groups and don't spend any money.  Russians are still here--just not as many.  Supply and demand will sort out what businesses open and close--I feel we are largely getting more of what a thriving city needs.  Most new condo projects in good locations will be finished and find buyers--none that I know of in good locations has stopped construction and been abandoned.  The ones in bad locations shouldn't have been started in the first place and will suffer their fate.   Pattaya still has plenty of problems to solve, including traffic, public transportation, upgrading roads and sidewalks, law enforcement, etc., but in my six plus years here I see many more positives than negatives. Some of the positives: sidewalk improvements along Jomtien Beach, the coming of Central Festival and Harbor Malls.  Bangkok Hospital clinic in Jomtien and a new hospital in central Pattaya, upgrades started on Big C North Pattaya, new Index, Chic Republic, and Home Pro stores.  Terminal 21 construction started and, likely, Asiatique on the horizon. More families out and about and more Thai visitors from Bangkok and elsewhere.  Lots of shack-type buildings being replaced by nicer, new buildings, including lots of boutique hotels in the side sois and The Bay on Beach Road.  Big, new hotels being built, including a new one behind Big C North Pattaya and another under construction near Holiday Inn. The Base, Centric Sea, Unixx, and other new condos bringing more residents to south and central Pattaya. Great, fun new restaurants like The Chocolate Factory.  The thriving Wongamat area with a skyline that has sprung up in the last few years.  Cartoon Network water park and other new entertainment venues.  Big, Bangkok builders arriving, including Lumpini, Supalai, and Sansiri.  And, dare I say, Hooters and the Teddy Bear Museum.  .

Easy to see how the op, and others of a similar ilk, would consider all these developments symbols of a failing Pattaya.

[onemorechang]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I've got a friend who owns a unit in one of these new buildings.  Buyers are just walking away from their contracts.  Hundreds of units up for resale.  Like mentioned before, the big problem will be when they can't afford the maintenance.  Or, don't build it like they promised. 

 

I've been driving around a bit and taking notice of all the closed shop houses.  It's scary.

 

Pattaya is defiantly suffering from greedy Landlord syndrome.

Asking to-much for rent,  charging to much for electric and water !!!!!!!!!

Idiot's  will just keep a shop house or condo empty,   rather than move a bit on the

rent money and electric  water costs,    great business sense.

Just glad i don't need to deal with these fools. 

 

 

 

 

[how241]

I still love Pattaya and I can't think of any place better, especially for the cost.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

"Growth is good, growth is good, growth is good", said the cancer cells!  It is almost impossible for people who have invested here or are involved in some other way in the real estate business to grasp the fact that growth can "kill."  I have seen city after city "destroyed" by unrestrained growth.  When there is no real city planning to manage the growth, the situation becomes even worse (as is the case in Pattaya and Jomtien).  There always seems to be a "golden period" of growth, when there is not too much or too little of something.  Both Pattaya and Jomtien have long since past that point. 

[balo]

I went up to Chiang Mai for a couple of weeks and was surprised of how clean the city was . No trash laying around in every soi , the traffic seemed to be flowing normally (traffic lights everywhere that was actually working) , at least compared to BKK and Pattaya, CM looks better and feels like a real city and not too big .

 

Maybe not the same night life but plenty of restaurants and coffee shops . If you don't miss the dirty beaches of Pattaya and all the sleazy bars , CM is a great option.  Also cooler climate during the winter months is a bonus. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

There is a big difference between an unoccupied condo and an unsold condo.

Many Thais hold condos and leave them empty. Some westerners hold to visit once a year. Even in a building with lots of unsold condos, the developer owns them, and is paying the condo fees.

 

If your observations are correct, why are big developers like matrix starting new projects ? 

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, onemorechang said:

 

Pattaya is defiantly suffering from greedy Landlord syndrome.

Asking to-much for rent,  charging to much for electric and water !!!!!!!!!

Idiot's  will just keep a shop house or condo empty,   rather than move a bit on the

rent money and electric  water costs,    great business sense.

Just glad i don't need to deal with these fools. 

 

 

 

 

 

It is part of the Thai mindset. They will own a condo or a shophouse and not be concerned if it is getting a return. The same as investing in gold and getting no return.

I was talking to a manager in a 25 year old complex and he told me there are condos that have not been opened in 20 years. 

[Peterw42]

7 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I've got a friend who owns a unit in one of these new buildings.  Buyers are just walking away from their contracts.  Hundreds of units up for resale.  Like mentioned before, the big problem will be when they can't afford the maintenance.  Or, don't build it like they promised. 

 

I've been driving around a bit and taking notice of all the closed shop houses.  It's scary.

 

Why are people "walking away from their contracts"? Other than they are speculating and the price is not going up. If they brought to live in etc. Why would they be walking away ?

[Rimmer]

Over the top political post and one reply have been removed

[Scotwight]

Chinese spend more than the Brits now - Brexit and the lower pound don't you know.  I costs the Chinese a lot less in transportation and they are all looking for places to stash money outside of China.  If you had Chinese banks you would be too.  If you really want the real numbers on Chinese spending as opposed to what  your bar mates grandpa thinks try google.

[JHolmesJr]

When Im in pattaya, it is usually me who is going downhill.

 

Rather rapidly….which is why Im in and out in 2 weeks.

[OMGImInPattaya]

2 hours ago, balo said:

I went up to Chiang Mai for a couple of weeks and was surprised of how clean the city was . No trash laying around in every soi , the traffic seemed to be flowing normally (traffic lights everywhere that was actually working) , at least compared to BKK and Pattaya, CM looks better and feels like a real city and not too big .

 

Maybe not the same night life but plenty of restaurants and coffee shops . If you don't miss the dirty beaches of Pattaya and all the sleazy bars , CM is a great option.  Also cooler climate during the winter months is a bonus. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ever perused the Chiang Mai sub-forum...all they do is piss and moan about how the place is going to the dogs   "The grass is always greener"...as the saying goes. That being said, I don't pay much so don't expect much living in a Third World country and I've always considered CM to be a viable alternative to Pattaya...and those white-skinned northern ladyboys...wowza.

[OMGImInPattaya]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Why are people "walking away from their contracts"? Other than they are speculating and the price is not going up. If they brought to live in etc. Why would they be walking away ?

Many probably only paid a 5-20k deposit and maybe made a few months worth of payments...easy to just walk away. As for the empty never occupied units...there are plenty of rich Thais around and also carrying costs on real property is very low in Thailand as there's no property tax so it costs basically nothing to keep an unoccupied unit.

[Seizetheday]

9 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Funny I've heard similar "Pattaya will fail" arguments ever since I moved to Thailand 15 years ago and the resort town continues to go from strength to strength. I suppose I'll be reading similar posts on T-V 15 years from now too ☺

 

What's your definition of strength to strength, traffic is awful, condo buildings half built, many shops closed.

The real estate guys try and paint a different picture, but that's the reality.

[OMGImInPattaya]

More traffic means more residents and visitors...more business activity...all good. As for half-build condos, I didn't buy into any so don't give a rat's...closed shops just means either a stupid business idea or under-capitalized or badly managed business...says nothing about Pattaya or the desirability of living here. Couldn't give a wit what the property-pimps say...good or bad...I have my own on-the-ground opinions.

 

It's not perfect but it doesn't cost much either...you get what you pay for. You want perfect...try Hawaii, Miami or the south of France.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, Seizetheday said:

 

What's your definition of strength to strength, traffic is awful, condo buildings half built, many shops closed.

The real estate guys try and paint a different picture, but that's the reality.

 

2 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

More traffic means more residents and visitors...more business activity...all good. As for half-build condos, I didn't buy into any so don't give a rat's...closed shops just means either a stupid business idea or under-capitalized or badly managed business...says nothing about Pattaya or the desirability of living here. Couldn't give a wit what the property-pimps say...good or bad...I have my own on-the-ground opinions.

 

It's not perfect but it doesn't cost much either...you get what you pay for. You want perfect...try Hawaii, Miami or the south of France.

 

There are just as many shops opening as closing. Same with condos, for every half built block there are 3-4 new developments. I agree, it doesnt cost much to buy there, and at the moment great buying. I have a car sitting in a garage in Australia that I paid more for than my condo. 

People come from elsewere and go to walking st, and think thats pattaya. 5 ks away and its a lot like the rest of Thailand.

[Rimmer]

An off topic post has been removed

[OMGImInPattaya]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

 

 

There are just as many shops opening as closing. Same with condos, for every half built block there are 3-4 new developments. I agree, it doesnt cost much to buy there, and at the moment great buying. I have a car sitting in a garage in Australia that I paid more for than my condo. 

People come from elsewere and go to walking st, and think thats pattaya. 5 ks away and its a lot like the rest of Thailand.

Agree...I don't see many vacant storefronts on the main shopping streets around town (North, Central, and South roads, Naklua Road or Beach Road) and try to get a table at the biggest Starbucks in town at Central Beach Mall at most times of the day. At least the places I frequent seem to be doing ok...as to the ticky-tacky bars, cheap restos,  and girly venues that may be struggling I don't have a foot in those places. 

[JSixpack]

So we gotta do CONDO GLUT again with the usual confusion of ownership vs occupancy (only proven by the lights on late every night).

 

Seems a major issue for the OP is the offense to delicate aesthetic sensibilities posed by unfinished buildings.

 

Yet Pattaya has has always had unfinished buildings, vacant shophouses, and even some mostly vacant pseudo malls. Nothing really new there and characteristic of Third World countries even in good economic times. I observed quite a few throughout Mexico, "so far from God, so close to the (major trading partner) USA."

 

Northshore, now, was for years an unfinished abandoned building right there on Beach Road. Now THAT was an eyesore. But nobody made a big deal out of it. Guess men were men back in them days. Of course renovating it put it on our TVF architects' "going to collapse" list w/ Central; surely Waterfront will be on there too.  Sois Lenkee and Chaiyapoon were once miserable and mostly closed up.

 

Meantime we've had, and will have, hundreds of new shops (cough!) opening up--a fact always ignored in our DOOM threads. Contrary to the TVF "NO CHANGE EVER" measure of economic success, businesses win and lose and the only constant is change. That some of the new businesses, often mom 'n' pops opened on a shoestring, will fail is a given, and no doubt in time others will occupy the spaces if not IMMEDIATELY.

 

Though the Pattaya economy has undergone a vast expansion over the last 7 years, the overbuilding (some merely failed attempts to overbuild) misleads our barstool economists. Our renters are always wanting to believe that property owners are "having nightmares" and "desperate to sell" etc. when very few really are. Of the many thousands of owners only handful ever complain here; the complainers, ironically, are the renters, most of whom can't afford to buy anyway. In fact the proportion of unhappy owners is far higher in USA than here for one reason or another, such as overextended credit or wrong location.

 

I've often said and still believe that Pattaya has something for everybody. Stay a couple years, look around, move around (as I certainly have) and eventually most expats can find a situation they're happier with here than elsewhere in Thailand, I think. Inevitably Chiang Mai has been brought up--without even mentioning the notorious seasonal air pollution that many claim makes it unlivable. You gotta be objective.

 

 

 

 

[craigt3365]

13 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Why are people "walking away from their contracts"? Other than they are speculating and the price is not going up. If they brought to live in etc. Why would they be walking away ?

Some were speculating.  Hoping to sell the contract at a higher price.  I know many who've made a lot of money doing this.  Payments are now due, there are no buyers, so they are walking away.  One of my wife's cousins contacted us 6 months ago about buying their contract.  Nope!

 

Some are Russians.  The currency collapsed and they can't afford it now.  I would guess that applies to many different currencies tied to the Ruble.

[Rimmer]

An off topic post about bar fines has been removed

[mercman24]

you want to come to Bangkok for beer prices, i just got back today after 3 days in Pattays. lots of bars with good live music, 2  beers 130 baht (in Bangkok, 140 baht for 1.) had 2 beers in a corner bar end of soi diana, (people watching) 2 nights ago , 2 beers 100 baht. saved a bloody fortune in just 3 days.a night out in BKK i generally get through 6000, i had a job to spend 2000 baht in Pattaya

[mcfish]

No way im reading an essay sized post on a tv forum.

 

But let me say this ,pattaya has always been so low that the only way forward is up

[Seizetheday]

23 hours ago, JSixpack said:

So we gotta do CONDO GLUT again with the usual confusion of ownership vs occupancy (only proven by the lights on late every night).

 

Seems a major issue for the OP is the offense to delicate aesthetic sensibilities posed by unfinished buildings.

 

Yet Pattaya has has always had unfinished buildings, vacant shophouses, and even some mostly vacant pseudo malls. Nothing really new there and characteristic of Third World countries even in good economic times. I observed quite a few throughout Mexico, "so far from God, so close to the (major trading partner) USA."

 

Northshore, now, was for years an unfinished abandoned building right there on Beach Road. Now THAT was an eyesore. But nobody made a big deal out of it. Guess men were men back in them days. Of course renovating it put it on our TVF architects' "going to collapse" list w/ Central; surely Waterfront will be on there too.  Sois Lenkee and Chaiyapoon were once miserable and mostly closed up.

 

Meantime we've had, and will have, hundreds of new shops (cough!) opening up--a fact always ignored in our DOOM threads. Contrary to the TVF "NO CHANGE EVER" measure of economic success, businesses win and lose and the only constant is change. That some of the new businesses, often mom 'n' pops opened on a shoestring, will fail is a given, and no doubt in time others will occupy the spaces if not IMMEDIATELY.

 

Though the Pattaya economy has undergone a vast expansion over the last 7 years, the overbuilding (some merely failed attempts to overbuild) misleads our barstool economists. Our renters are always wanting to believe that property owners are "having nightmares" and "desperate to sell" etc. when very few really are. Of the many thousands of owners only handful ever complain here; the complainers, ironically, are the renters, most of whom can't afford to buy anyway. In fact the proportion of unhappy owners is far higher in USA than here for one reason or another, such as overextended credit or wrong location.

 

I've often said and still believe that Pattaya has something for everybody. Stay a couple years, look around, move around (as I certainly have) and eventually most expats can find a situation they're happier with here than elsewhere in Thailand, I think. Inevitably Chiang Mai has been brought up--without even mentioning the notorious seasonal air pollution that many claim makes it unlivable. You gotta be objective.

 

 

 

 

Ok, I'm gunna be objective. 

In the 6 years I've lived in my estate I've never seen so many empty houses. One house has been reduced from 65 million to 45 million and still can't sell.

The Baht is over valued to most western currencies apart from the US dollar.

Chinese are taking up some of the slack from the Russians, however not in the numbers required to make a big difference in demand.

There is still an over supply of properties built on the premise of a huge increase in Russian visitors/purchasers that hasn't materialised.

Oh, and I have no vested interested in talking property up or down.

Unbiased objectivity, try it.

[mcfish]

5 minutes ago, Seizetheday said:

Ok, I'm gunna be objective. 

In the 6 years I've lived in my estate I've never seen so many empty houses. One house has been reduced from 65 million to 45 million and still can't sell.

The Baht is over valued to most western currencies apart from the US dollar.

Chinese are taking up some of the slack from the Russians, however not in the numbers required to make a big difference in demand.

There is still an over supply of properties built on the premise of a huge increase in Russian visitors/purchasers that hasn't materialised.

Oh, and I have no vested interested in talking property up or down.

Unbiased objectivity, try it.

i swear to  god we must be kindred spirits because i got a mate who is thai and couldnt sell for 45mill jacked it to 65mill and sold the very first day !!

 

i also have no pattaya property just speaking from the heart

[midas]

2 hours ago, mcfish said:

No way im reading an essay sized post on a tv forum.

 

But let me say this ,pattaya has always been so low that the only way forward is up

 

" the only way forward is up "

 

The rest of the world is furiously fighting deflationary forces (and losing miserably) and now many believe the 20 year Japanese bear market in property is making its way to the USA. Why do you believe Pattaya is so unique in the world that it will be able to shrug off such trends?