transfer money uk to thailand

[Pib]

A fixed amount.

[chiang mai]

I believe HSBC routes payments from overseas via HSBC Thailand, not the non-existent retail arm of course.

[Bazle]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

Krungsri can only tell you how much money arrived their inbox so to speak and what fee they charged....they can not tell you what other middle man folks may have sliced off on its way from HSBC.

Thanks for your input.

 

However, the GBP 20 which HSBC passed on to me was a charge HSBC had received from Krungsri.

[Jip99]

11 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I believe HSBC routes payments from overseas via HSBC Thailand, not the non-existent retail arm of course.

 

For Sterling payments HSBC seems to deal directly (and extremely quickly quickly) with the likes of Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn and Krungsri - these are just my personal experience.

 

On one occasion I tested the system by remitting Baht (because I could buy at a favourable rate that day from HSBC) and it took a day longer and I incurred an extra 500Baht charge because HSBC Thailand was used as the correspondent bank.

 

£ 4 charge at the HSBC UK end.

[Pib]

11 minutes ago, Bazle said:

Thanks for your input.

 

However, the GBP 20 which HSBC passed on to me was a charge HSBC had received from Krungsri.

Refer back to my post #52.  Since you said you wanted to pay "all" fees Krungsri possibly could not charge their standard 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) receiving fee and had to force feed a fee back up-stream to you per your transfer instructions....a higher fee due to the extra work involved.

 

And I've seen many posts over the years where a person's Sending bank (like HSBC for you) blame a correspondent bank fee on the receiving bank when in fact the fee was from the correspondent bank under contract with the Sending bank. 

 

But you said Krungsri admitted to the fee.    Are you "sure" that's whats Krungsri told you...no possible miscommunication.    But if they did admit to it....you heard it/read it with your own ears/eyes "from Krungsri" then I revert back to it could have been caused by you requiring all fees be paid by your, the sender.

 

[Bazle]

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

Refer back to my post #52.  Since you said you wanted to pay "all" fees Krungsri possibly could not charge their standard 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) receiving fee and had to force feed a fee back up-stream to you per your transfer instructions....a higher fee due to the extra work involved.

 

And I've seen many posts over the years where a person's Sending bank (like HSBC for you) blame a correspondent bank fee on the receiving bank when in fact the fee was from the correspondent bank under contract with the Sending bank. 

 

But you said Krungsri admitted to the fee.    Are you "sure" that's whats Krungsri told you...no possible miscommunication.    But if they did admit to it....you heard it/read it with your own ears/eyes "from Krungsri" then I revert back to it could have been caused by you requiring all fees be paid by your, the sender.

 

HSBC sent through to me screenshots showing the charge they had received from Krungsri. Sadly, there is no calculation.

 

I sent the screenshot through to Krungsri, who had initailly denied making the charge, and their reply was:

 

Quote

Be advised that all transaction that we received and pay in full amount we usually sent the message MT191 for claim the bank's charge after the funds was executed. 

This charge is concerning between sender's bank and receiver's bank. 

 

 

[Pib]

You might want to review this 2014 thread talking the 20 pound fee that appears to be an HSBC intermediary fee.   Or, like earlier mentioned a fee being relayed back upstream to collect a fee from the sender when the sender says he will pay "all" fees....a fee that will be higher than the normal receiving fee due to extra work/delay involved.

[Bazle]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

You might want to review this 2014 thread talking the 20 pound fee that appears to be an HSBC intermediary fee.   Or, like earlier mentioned a fee being relayed back upstream to collect a fee from the sender when the sender says he will pay "all" fees....a fee that will be higher than the normal receiving fee due to extra work/delay involved.

 

Thanks for that but unfortunately the link does not work for me - I get an error code. Just going out now but will try to find it another way when I get back.

[chiang mai]

FWIW my transfers from HSBC UK to UOB Thailand cost me, 4 Pounds from HSBC UK and 350 baht from UOB Thailand, and that's all, based on transfers up to 10K Pounds.

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, Bazle said:

Thanks for that but unfortunately the link does not work for me - I get an error code. Just going out now but will try to find it another way when I get back.

 

I edited my earlier post....took the link out and inserted it a different way....link should work now...it does for me anyway....it another try.

 

 

 

[Briggsy]

2 hours ago, Bazle said:

Many thanks for that.

 

In your experience, is the intermediary bank fee a fixed amount or a percentage of the amount transferred?

A fixed amount.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Bazle said:

HSBC sent through to me screenshots showing the charge they had received from Krungsri. Sadly, there is no calculation.

 

I sent the screenshot through to Krungsri, who had initailly denied making the charge, and their reply was:

 

Quote

Be advised that all transaction that we received and pay in full amount we usually sent the message MT191 for claim the bank's charge after the funds was executed. 

This charge is concerning between sender's bank and receiver's bank. 

 

 

 

 

Googling some info on a  MT191 message it indicates it's what a Receiving bank must send back to the Sending bank in order to claim a fee when the Sender sent the funds coded for all fees to be paid by the Sender, which is how you sent the funds.   As mentioned, this fee going back up-stream to the Sender will be different/higher than a bank's standard receiving fee.

 

Explain of SWIFT Payment Options (i.e., who is to pay fees).  You selected the "OUR" option.   You should have 
selected the "SHARE" option to minimize possible fees.  Only use the OUR option if it's important an exact amount
arrives the Sender like for a specific payment amount.   Your sending bank may use different words to explain

the BEN, SHA, OUR payment options.

 

 

MT191 Message Talked About.  The fee amount in below example can vary/depends on receiving bank.

 

 

 

[Bazle]

8 hours ago, Pib said:

You might want to review this 2014 thread talking the 20 pound fee that appears to be an HSBC intermediary fee.   Or, like earlier mentioned a fee being relayed back upstream to collect a fee from the sender when the sender says he will pay "all" fees....a fee that will be higher than the normal receiving fee due to extra work/delay involved.

 

Pib

I'm most grateful for your pointing me to that thread. It looks very much that I have gone through what a few posters also did in 2014. Mention is made of the £20 charge and it appears that that fee originates from HSBC and is a flat fee. (That is very important for me to know.) A couple of posts in that thread mention situations almost identical to my own. This post explains matters for me (although I note you do not agree with the description of BB's fee - but that is a minor point):

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/732405-warning-double-bank-charges-on-money-transfers/?page=5#comment-7960941

Quote

With any International transfer your funds must be cleared through an International Clearing bank.
1. Your UK bank will clearly state a transfer fee for the transaction.
2. Bangkok bank do not charge any fees for receiving. They charge a small fee for exchanging your currency to Thai baht (200 - 500)
Most UK banks use either HSBC or Lloyds International banking services to transfer your funds to Thailand.
Previously they made no charges, but it appears that HSBC are now charging a £20 fee for transfers to Bangkok bank which they call a 'Correspondence Fee'
It is not clear if they are charging this fee to other Thai banks.
It is this extra charge to which the OP is referring.
When you complete your transfer application, it will give you options to choose from which account the transfer fees are to deducted..
Your UK account, Thai account, or split between the two.
There is also a 'disclaimer' warning that other banks (may) make a charge.
In my case I elected all charges to be charged to my UK account.
My home bank charged the standard £25 transfer fee.
Bangkok bank charged a 200 baht fee for exchanging the currency (Not a transfer fee)
3 weeks later my UK account was hit with another £20 transfer fee from HSBC.

 

It appears that HSBC is being disingenuous when they say their fee is just £4. I think that there is probably some small print that says HSBC UK's fee is £4, and the £20 fee is levied by a different bit of the HSBC empire.

 

Pib, thanks again for your help on this - most useful.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Bazle said:

 

Pib

I'm most grateful for your pointing me to that thread. It looks very much that I have gone through what a few posters also did in 2014. Mention is made of the £20 charge and it appears that that fee originates from HSBC and is a flat fee. (That is very important for me to know.) A couple of posts in that thread mention situations almost identical to my own. This post explains matters for me (although I note you do not agree with the description of BB's fee - but that is a minor point):

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/732405-warning-double-bank-charges-on-money-transfers/?page=5#comment-7960941

 

It appears that HSBC is being disingenuous when they say their fee is just £4. I think that there is probably some small print that says HSBC UK's fee is £4, and the £20 fee is levied by a different bit of the HSBC empire.

 

Pib, thanks again for your help on this - most useful.

Unless I've missed something here and I haven't read the entire thread, I don't understand why some people incur this "extra" 20 Pound charge and some don't, I don't. But there again I transfer Pounds into Thailand, Jip99 in post 64 transferred THB and he got hit with the extra charge because the transfer went via HSBC Thailand and I understand that. Is that the difference between us?

[Pib]

@chiang mai

Which payment option do you choose?   Bazle selected the first option which would also result in Krungsri reflecting back a charge to him.

 

Maybe you select the "I want to pay the HSBC UK Fees" (a.k.a., Shared fee option) which means you pay the HSBC UK fee and the receiver pays all other fees to include any intermediary bank fee and the receiving bank fee.

 

Quote

 

The options I was given were:

* I want to pay all the fees
* I want the payee to pay all the fees
* I want to pay the HSBC UK fees

 

 

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Pib said:

@chiang mai

Which payment option do you choose?   Bazle selected the first option which would also result in Krungsri reflecting back a charge to him.

 

Maybe you select the "I want to pay the HSBC UK Fees" (a.k.a., Shared fee option) which means you pay the HSBC UK fee and the receiver pays all other fees to include any intermediary bank fee and the receiving bank fee.

 

 

 

I always state that I want to pay all the fees (HSBC UK) which results in me paying the 4 Pounds. No matter which bank I transfer to in Thailand, UOB or CIMB, they always charge a nominal fee for receiving the funds, this despite me telling HSBC UK I want to pay everything.

 

Perhaps this is a bank by bank issue, UOB never charges me more than 350 baht for receiving any amount.

 

Another aspect is whether the same fee structures apply where the sending account name is different from the receiving account name? Dunno.

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

 

I always state that I want to pay all the fees (HSBC UK) which results in me paying the 4 Pounds. No matter which bank I transfer to in Thailand, UOB or CIMB, they always charge a nominal fee for receiving the funds, this despite me telling HSBC UK I want to pay everything.

 

Perhaps this is a bank by bank issue, UOB never charges me more than 350 baht for receiving any amount.

 

Another aspect is whether the same fee structures apply where the sending account name is different from the receiving account name? Dunno.

You need to have a look at the amount received by the bank in Thailand. This should be an amount quoted in pounds sterling. If you ask the receiving bank for "the transfer printout" or "the receipt of funds slip" you will get this information. This will be able to answer some of your questions.

 

I would not expect any change in fees related solely to whether one is sending money to oneself or somebody else.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

You need to have a look at the amount received by the bank in Thailand. This should be an amount quoted in pounds sterling. If you ask the receiving bank for "the transfer printout" or "the receipt of funds slip" you will get this information. This will be able to answer some of your questions.

 

I would not expect any change in fees related solely to whether one is sending money to oneself or somebody else.

If I transfer 10k Pounds 10k plus 4 Pounds is taken out of my account in the UK.

 

That 10K is then converted to THB and a 350 baht fee is deducted.

 

The math is very straight forward and uncomplicated.

[Briggsy]

Just now, chiang mai said:

If I transfer 10k Pounds 10k plus 4 Pounds is taken out of my account in the UK.

 

That 10K is then converted to THB and a 350 baht fee is deducted.

 

The math is very straight forward and uncomplicated.

Are you 100% certain on that?

 

You have calculated a reconciliation using the appropriate exchange rate on the day and reconciled it to the amount received to the baht, I assume.

 

Of course, the bank will do this for you and provide you with this information if you request it from them. This printout is free.

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Are you 100% certain on that?

 

You have calculated a reconciliation using the appropriate exchange rate on the day and reconciled it to the amount received to the baht, I assume.

 

Of course, the bank will do this for you and provide you with this information if you request it from them. This printout is free.

The most recent transfer I made was 21 October 2014 where I moved 10k Pounds from HSBC London to UOB in CM.

 

It Reads:

 

Remittance Amount: GBP*********10,000.00

                                                              51.830000

Charges:**************************500.00

AMT CREDITED:******************517,800.00

Contract No.:********************* xxxxxxxxx

 

I can scan and post it if any one wants to see it.

[Briggsy]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The most recent transfer I made was 21 October 2014 where I moved 10k Pounds from HSBC London to UOB in CM.

 

It Reads:

 

Remittance Amount: GBP*********10,000.00

                                                              51.830000

Charges:**************************500.00

AMT CREDITED:******************517,800.00

Contract No.:********************* xxxxxxxxx

 

I can scan and post it if any one wants to see it.

So, putting aside the inevitable loss due to the exchange rate, your charges amount to

 

£4 HSBC foreign transfer fee +

500 Baht UOB receipt of foreign transfer fee.

 

There is no intermediary or correspondent bank fee. This could be because in this 'pairing' there is no correspondent bank involved.

 

Have you scrutinised your HSBC statement in the, say, 3 months post-21 October 2014? Is it possible you missed a further fee deduction?

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The most recent transfer I made was 21 October 2014 where I moved 10k Pounds from HSBC London to UOB in CM.

 

It Reads:

 

Remittance Amount: GBP*********10,000.00

                                                              51.830000

Charges:**************************500.00

AMT CREDITED:******************517,800.00

Contract No.:********************* xxxxxxxxx

 

I can scan and post it if any one wants to see it.

 

 

You will understand that the (maximum) charge from UOB is 500 Baht and therefore greater than the amount quoted earlier.

 

No matter, I just don't want people to think that UOB have a lower maximum charge than other banks.

 

"Perhaps this is a bank by bank issue, UOB never charges me more than 350 baht for receiving any amount".

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

If I transfer 10k Pounds 10k plus 4 Pounds is taken out of my account in the UK.

 

That 10K is then converted to THB and a 350 baht fee is deducted.

 

The math is very straight forward and uncomplicated.

I think what Briggsy really meant was see how much money arrived the Thai bank inbox so to speak.   Since the Sending bank fee (i.e., the 4 pounds) is a separate charged separately the 10K still leaves the Sending bank but "how much arrives the Thai bank inbox?"    If less than 10K then an intermediary bank fee was applied along the way.....like maybe a 20 pound fee.  

 

 I've seen this in quite a few posts over the years by people trying to figure out "who took a certain fixed amount fee?"  And in most of those post the Sending bank always blamed the Receiving bank....however, in some of the posts by people who aggressively followed the rabbit trail when the dust settled they did find out it was an intermediary bank taking a fee before it arrived the Thai bank and their Sending bank intentionally or unintentionally gave the customer incorrect information.  Seems Sending bank just hate disclosuring/researching fees applied along the way and just default to say it was a Receiving bank fee.  

 

But in your case as you show above for the money you sent, 10K was received by UOB and you know how much actually arrived their inbox.   

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Briggsy said:

So, putting aside the inevitable loss due to the exchange rate, your charges amount to

 

£4 HSBC foreign transfer fee +

500 Baht UOB receipt of foreign transfer fee.

 

There is no intermediary or correspondent bank fee. This could be because in this 'pairing' there is no correspondent bank involved.

 

Have you scrutinised your HSBC statement in the, say, 3 months post-21 October 2014? Is it possible you missed a further fee deduction?

I do check my statements every month and I've never seen a secondary or late charge for any transfers - I honestly thought this is what everyone experienced, I'm slightly worried now that's not the case.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You will understand that the (maximum) charge from UOB is 500 Baht and therefore greater than the amount quoted earlier.

 

No matter, I just don't want people to think that UOB have a lower maximum charge than other banks.

 

"Perhaps this is a bank by bank issue, UOB never charges me more than 350 baht for receiving any amount".

Jip, it's been three years since I made an international funds transfer to Thailand and I misquoted the fee by 150 baht, send me to the chair for gods sake!

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I do check my statements every month and I've never seen a secondary or late charge for any transfers - I honestly thought this is what everyone experienced, I'm slightly worried now that's not the case.

If your last transfer was 2014, I think you can be confident there will be no further fees or repercussions now.

[Jip99]

Just now, chiang mai said:

Jip, it's been three years since I made an international funds transfer to Thailand and I misquoted the fee by 150 baht, send me to the chair for gods sake!

 

 

No need to be defensive CM, I was simply correcting the maximum charge figure for the benefit of other members. Just over 2 years actually.

[chiang mai]

I've also looked at the exchange rate that date and it seems as though international markets closed at 52.008, presumably that the midpoint. I can't find out what the onshore rate was but the exchange rate does seem broadly in line.

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

I've also looked at the exchange rate that date and it seems as though international markets closed at 52.008, presumably that the midpoint. I can't find out what the onshore rate was but the exchange rate does seem broadly in line.

Yes, I checked that as well. It does seem in the ball park.

 

However, if you have the transaction printout from UOB then that is irrefutable proof that UOB received £10,000 precisely.

[chiang mai]

Just now, Briggsy said:

Yes, I checked that as well. It does seem in the ball park.

 

However, if you have the transaction printout from UOB then that is irrefutable proof that UOB received £10,000 precisely.

I'll post it, just for the avoidance of doubt by others.