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BANGKOK 16 February 2019 08:49
dontoearth

Ideal Weight? Does anyone have a goal or target weight??

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1 hour ago, Naam said:

i think it's better if interested members ask questions which i might be able to answer.

    I am not trying to be nosy but how much alcohol did you drink daily before doing this diet?  While everyone is different and everyone finds success in their own way the snack eating all day diets have proven real disasters every time they have been studied.

    I read your got rid of most simple carbs but you mention cake?  

 

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Here's a successful "eating less" diet plan that worked for my wife. No particular foods were eliminated, but merely less of everything was eaten, including rice. The graph started a month earlier than depicted at 45kg. It was only 1kg per month, but still represents a loss of 11.1% of her bodyweight in total. The trick was using this app and inputting her weight every day to 0.1kg accuracy. This represents a pure fat loss as she held onto her muscle over this period through regular rowing and weight training. Daily measurements will continue to ensure her bodyweight remains at the goal weight of 40kg.5a86f5031e7f1_Weightgraph.jpg.30649ed817b86c6924448d267fda13f9.jpg

Edited by tropo
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3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Now I see why you said don't ask me how i lost weight. Do you have a link to this diet?

we tried everything but couldn't find a shred.

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3 hours ago, dontoearth said:

  I am not trying to be nosy but how much alcohol did you drink daily before doing this diet?  While everyone is different and everyone finds success in their own way the snack eating all day diets have proven real disasters every time they have been studied.

    I read your got rid of most simple carbs but you mention cake?  

per definition and consumption i was an alcoholic but never drunk. one bottle 700cc of Portwine most of the days "before", since then one bottle a week / 10 days. cake yes, not huge portions but every day a normal piece or the equivalent in sweet things (cookies, chocolate). something i did not mention but i think is important that i drank huge amounts of liquid, mainly fruit juices but diluted 50:50 with crushed ice and adding freshly pressed lime juice.

 

addendum:

snacks were most of the time salads (tomato, cucumber, red round radishes, pickled beet root, sauerkraut) with a spicy dressing and all BIG portions.

i swear that i was never hungry when dieting.

Edited by Naam

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12 hours ago, balo said:

Anyone tried the 5-2 diet by Mosley (BBC) ?
They did a scientific research to find out if the body could adapt to 2 fasting days per week, and how easy to lose weight and reduce the risk of diabetis and heart disease.
So the program is based on eating normal food 5 days of the week up to 2000 + calories and on fasting days only eat max 500 calories, and drink plenty of fluid like water and coffee.
The first 2-3 weeks your stomach will send signals to the brain that you are hungry and need to eat. But then the body will adapt and the chemical processes inside your body will start to do the magic .

When you sleep your body cells are repaired, what they discovered was that if the body get no break from food it will not manage to control and repair your body in the same way.
With one or two fasting days per week not only will you reduce your weight, but several health benefits as well. They tried the program on normal people as well as overweight people and the results were astonishing. Blood tests taken over time showed the positive results.

So I'm planning to start the 6-1 program , only one fasting day per week and eat the food recommended in the program , both fish and meat are recommended on the normal days.

The problem with this is that if you do any sports or activities, you risk injury if you have inadequate nutrition.  Example, try going for a 10km run on the day after the 2 day fast.  This 5-2 may only work for sedentary people.

Edited by norrska
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21 minutes ago, norrska said:

The problem with this is that if you do any sports or activities, you risk injury if you have inadequate nutrition.  Example, try going for a 10km run on the day after the 2 day fast.  This 5-2 may only work for sedentary people.

     There are a large group of bodybuilders which use Intermittent Fasting and workout in the fasted state so it has no effect on muscles or strength.   

      I am not sure about large amounts of cardio which I don't do.  I only do enough to have good oxygen uptake and good heart health.  I do about 30 minutes of ellipitical 4 times a week.  I would never run or jog because it breaks down my joints.  

       I have worked out the last two years in a fasted state in the morning.  I have not had any problems at all.  I lost about 36 lbs. Gains come along nicely and I have added muscle.

        One thing about fasting is that the new research clearly shows the doctors and dietitians HAD IT COMPLETELY TOTALLY wrong about fasting causing muscle breakdown and metabolism damage.  The science shows it as much better diet plan than the traditional wisdom of calorie counting and portion control which does screw up metabolism.  

        All of this is very recent new developments. I think on this forum they have the biggest loser article showing what a disaster portion control really is for the human body.   Varraday, Mosley and Fung have done most of the science and the conclusions are stunning as they definitely don't concur with the nonsense we have been told for so very long.

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12 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     There are a large group of bodybuilders which use Intermittent Fasting and workout in the fasted state so it has no effect on muscles or strength.   

      I am not sure about large amounts of cardio which I don't do.  I only do enough to have good oxygen uptake and good heart health.  I do about 30 minutes of ellipitical 4 times a week.  I would never run or jog because it breaks down my joints.  

       I have worked out the last two years in a fasted state in the morning.  I have not had any problems at all.  I lost about 36 lbs. Gains come along nicely and I have added muscle.

        One thing about fasting is that the new research clearly shows the doctors and dietitians HAD IT COMPLETELY TOTALLY wrong about fasting causing muscle breakdown and metabolism damage.  The science shows it as much better diet plan than the traditional wisdom of calorie counting and portion control which does screw up metabolism.  

        All of this is very recent new developments. I think on this forum they have the biggest loser article showing what a disaster portion control really is for the human body.   Varraday, Mosley and Fung have done most of the science and the conclusions are stunning as they definitely don't concur with the nonsense we have been told for so very long.

Interesting.  Can you provide one example of high performance athletes from international sport who use fasting before an event, such as the olympics, marathon, triathlon etc.?

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for those who find sweating easier than starving:

topping my fried rice dishes with a tiny amount of DNP lets me sweat away

0.5 kg fat every day, that is 0.5 kg fat i'm losing a day, not water or muscle.

 

here i just sweat away 20 kg, so its lotsa sweating and now i messed up with nutella so now i gotta sweat yet again. this is no sucking the tummy in btw, this is relaxed muscles

in their resting state https://imgur.com/a/PUGtI

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5 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     There are a large group of bodybuilders which use Intermittent Fasting and workout in the fasted state so it has no effect on muscles or strength.   

      I am not sure about large amounts of cardio which I don't do.  I only do enough to have good oxygen uptake and good heart health.  I do about 30 minutes of ellipitical 4 times a week.  I would never run or jog because it breaks down my joints.  

       I have worked out the last two years in a fasted state in the morning.  I have not had any problems at all.  I lost about 36 lbs. Gains come along nicely and I have added muscle.

        One thing about fasting is that the new research clearly shows the doctors and dietitians HAD IT COMPLETELY TOTALLY wrong about fasting causing muscle breakdown and metabolism damage.  The science shows it as much better diet plan than the traditional wisdom of calorie counting and portion control which does screw up metabolism.  

        All of this is very recent new developments. I think on this forum they have the biggest loser article showing what a disaster portion control really is for the human body.   Varraday, Mosley and Fung have done most of the science and the conclusions are stunning as they definitely don't concur with the nonsense we have been told for so very long.

Have a look up a few posts (#168) to see how effective an "eat less" or in other words a "portion control" diet can be if you have the patience. That was an 11.1% drop in body weight, all fat. Careful monitoring will keep the lost weight off. Without continuous monitoring it's like rowing without a paddle - it is essential if you want to maintain a weight goal. It's easy to make fine adjustments, but losing a large amount of fat that creeps on over the months take a big effort to lose again.

 

Don't confuse training first thing in the morning with training in a fasted state from not eating for 24 - 48 hours. There's a huge difference. I often train first thing. If I was doing you 5/2 diet (which I'll never do as portion control has always kept my body fat under control) I would most definitely not train on my 2 fasting days. I think you're confusing intermittent fasting with true fasting. I don't call a night's sleep a fast LOL> most people don't eat when they sleep.

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2 hours ago, poanoi said:

for those who find sweating easier than starving:

topping my fried rice dishes with a tiny amount of DNP lets me sweat away

0.5 kg fat every day, that is 0.5 kg fat i'm losing a day, not water or muscle.

 

here i just sweat away 20 kg, so its lotsa sweating and now i messed up with nutella so now i gotta sweat yet again. this is no sucking the tummy in btw, this is relaxed muscles

in their resting state https://imgur.com/a/PUGtI

It's pretty easy to prove you DON'T burn 0.5kg of pure fat every day.

 

There are 3850 calories in 0.5kg of fat.

 

I don't know how much you weigh, but a 150 lb person burns roughly 60 calories per hour while sleeping. As you probably weigh a bit more than that, let's make it 80 calories per hour and assuming you sleep 8 hours, that's 640 calories while sleeping. A bit less if you sleep less. 

 

Now we arrive at 3200 calories that you would have to burn for the rest of the day assuming you eat nothing. It would appear you're leaving your weight loss in the hands of DNP (a dangerous drug), so let's say you have a fairly normal diet and consume at least 2000 calories per day.

 

Now we arrive at a figure of 5200 calories per day that you need to burn in order to lose 0.5kg of fat (per day).

 

100 mg of DNP only increases the metabolic rate by about 11%, so let's assume that's the "benefit" you're getting from your DNP. Walking at an average pace for 1 hour would burn around 300 calories. Let's add in 11% from the DNP and assume you burn 333 calories per hour walking. You'd have to walk for 15.6 hours to burn off 0.5kg of fat per day.

 

You most certainly do not burn 3.5kg per week or 14kg of pure fat per month. You're losing a lot of water though and putting your health at risk by using a drug that can kill.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by tropo
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6 hours ago, norrska said:

Interesting.  Can you provide one example of high performance athletes from international sport who use fasting before an event, such as the olympics, marathon, triathlon etc.?

 

Occasionally we have this silly, irrelevant standard brought up for some diet or another, usually by our old school starve-and-sweat gym rats. Nobody--nobody--coming to this forum for weight loss help is an elite athlete competing in the Olympics or running marathons and triathlons. Never have, never will. We're talking to fat people, mostly older fat people, whose main exercise has been reaching for the pizza, beer, and remote. In general they're hardly worried about losing muscle. What muscle? Elbow muscle? Let's not discourage them from a helpful method (maybe THE helpful method in their case) because an Olympic athlete might not benefit in the same way. Absurd.

 

Anyway, nothing to worry about re: IF even for the fat old fart. You can go google it for yourself:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=5%3A2+diet+and+exercise+muscle+loss&gws_rd=cr&hl=en&num=30

 

And you'll find stuff like

 

Intermittent fasting was no better or no worse than continuous calorie restriction as a way to preserve muscle while dropping fat.

     --https://muscleevo.net/intermittent-fasting-muscle-loss/

Edited by JSixpack
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2 hours ago, tropo said:

It's pretty easy to prove you DON'T burn 0.5kg of pure fat every day.

 

There are 3850 calories in 0.5kg of fat.

 

I don't know how much you weigh, but a 150 lb person burns roughly 60 calories per hour while sleeping. As you probably weigh a bit more than that, let's make it 80 calories per hour and assuming you sleep 8 hours, that's 640 calories while sleeping. A bit less if you sleep less. 

 

Now we arrive at 3200 calories that you would have to burn for the rest of the day assuming you eat nothing. It would appear you're leaving your weight loss in the hands of DNP (a dangerous drug), so let's say you have a fairly normal diet and consume at least 2000 calories per day.

 

Now we arrive at a figure of 5200 calories per day that you need to burn in order to lose 0.5kg of fat (per day).

 

100 mg of DNP only increases the metabolic rate by about 11%, so let's assume that's the "benefit" you're getting from your DNP. Walking at an average pace for 1 hour would burn around 300 calories. Let's add in 11% from the DNP and assume you burn 333 calories per hour walking. You'd have to walk for 15.6 hours to burn off 0.5kg of fat per day.

 

You most certainly do not burn 3.5kg per week or 14kg of pure fat per month. You're losing a lot of water though and putting your health at risk by using a drug that can kill.  

 

 

 

 

 

no, lets not assume that, lets take my word for it i took 200 mg on day 1, 300 mg on day two, 200 mg on day 3, etc, for an average of 250 mg/day. ( or possibly 2 days 200 mg and 300 mg on day 3, cant remember)

 

in addition, i did not regain weight when i stopped DNP,

as i would have if i were restoring water, as a matter of fact i kept losing weight a few more days. it wasnt until

i felt i was invincible and lost it and started eating chocolate that i started to pile on yet again

 

IMO, the ideal dosage is, if you walk 1 stair and get out of breath, you are spot on, if it takes less you are over dosage,

and if it takes more you are under dosage

 

oh, and i swing between 110 kg to below 80 kg,

depending on if i spice up my breakfast with a small teaspoon of DNP or not.

 

sleeping got nothing to do with DNP,

your theory is illiterate, i burn calories regardless what i do on DNP

Edited by poanoi

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6 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Occasionally we have this silly, irrelevant standard brought up for some diet or another, usually by our old school starve-and-sweat gym rats. Nobody--nobody--coming to this forum for weight loss help is an elite athlete competing in the Olympics or running marathons and triathlons. Never have, never will. We're talking to fat people, mostly older fat people, whose main exercise has been reaching for the pizza, beer, and remote. In general they're hardly worried about losing muscle. What muscle? Elbow muscle? Let's not discourage them from a helpful method (maybe THE helpful method in their case) because an Olympic athlete might not benefit in the same way. Absurd.

 

Anyway, nothing to worry about re: IF even for the fat old fart. You can go google it for yourself:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=5%3A2+diet+and+exercise+muscle+loss&gws_rd=cr&hl=en&num=30

 

And you'll find stuff like

 

Intermittent fasting was no better or no worse than continuous calorie restriction as a way to preserve muscle while dropping fat.

     --https://muscleevo.net/intermittent-fasting-muscle-loss/

Thanks for confirming that there are no examples!

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1 hour ago, norrska said:

Thanks for confirming that there are no examples!

 

No. I merely confirmed that (1) any such examples would be completely irrelevant (so why would I bother looking for any?) and that (2) lots of relevant examples and informed opinions do exist and are easily found. You're free to prove to yourself and the world that there are no such Olympian examples if that's important to you, though I can't imagine why. :post-4641-1156694572: Have you got anything useful to say on this topic?

Edited by JSixpack
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