Ideal Weight? Does anyone have a goal or target weight??

[tropo 7,497]

4 hours ago, dontoearth said:

   No.   Index is the amount of sugar.  Load is the amount of sugar  that will actually be absorbed by the body.   The body is complex and science is just accepting that it is a processing plant onto itself.  It can reject portions of food and change the chemical structure of foods.   The big news from this second rating is that there are high index foods that don't have anywhere near as high loads.  It is not based on volume or amount eaten.  It is based on amount absorbed into the body.

     However, these are lab results and individuals are going to vary.  Some by a lot.   I am glad you take the time to carefully check out foods and their effect on your body.   I truly wish many of my friends would do this do this also.   Since they won't the glycemic load tables are all that they have.  This is a very recent new scale and not all foods are listed yet.  I think the ground breaking book on this research is only a few years old.  I gave the book to a friend that has Type II Diabetes but still insist on going to Pizza Company every week.  I am hoping he reads it!

    I am glad you are doing well.  I think the exercise has a lot to do with it.  That may very well mute the effect of foods on your body.

    We all have to realize on here that 'our way' may not be the best way for others.  

     I don't have any problems with blood sugar or insulin.  My entire journey was listening to my own body and finally getting some answers.  We all should do that.  I was able to tell that my hunger was driven by simple carbs high in glycemic load.  I have cut them out as much as possible.  I do eat the complex ones that doctors kept swearing put too much sugar in us like fresh raw fruit.  I do not experienced the same ill effect I had with oatmeal and cereals.  

     There are now doctors (real medical) that are treating type II with raw whole foods diets including lots of fruit.  There is even a doctor doing treatment with starches giving the patients unlimited potatoes.   His name is McDougall he is all over youtube.  

      What we were told about all of this before seems to have not been validated by the new science.   As I have said we are making new discoveries and they are going to make lots of people very uncomfortable.  What we knew as facts are going to be overturned.

        I look forward to this myself.

    

No (back at you). The Glycemic Index (GI) determines how fast the carbohydrates in the food are digested. Obviously, complex carbohydrates such as starch will digest more slowly than say pure sugar. Glycemic Load (GL) is the carbohydrate content of the food. Some foods may be less dense and not provide a high carb content per serving despite the actual carbs in the food having a high GI - therefore providing a lower GL. 

 ALL the carbs you eat will be absorbed. There are no magic carbs on that index that somehow are not absorbed. Wouldn't that be great - ice cream, chocolate and cakes that aren't absorbed LOL. Until you find that magic food if you eat 100 grams of carbohydrates, 100 grams of carbohydrates or around 400 calories will be absorbed. If you eat a food with a lower glycemic index and load factor, it will be digested more slowly and your BG spike won't be as pronounced. Of course, you're never going to know this unless you test.

At 45 minutes to 1 hour after eating your blood sugar readings will usually be at maximum (unless you have very poor digestion), that's the reason for the 1 hour PP testing. i.e. to see the highest level it reaches. I ALWAYS aim to determine the highest level it will rise. It doesn't matter what food on the glycemic scale you eat, all the sugar will reach your blood. How fast your insulin stores the sugar is the difference between a healthy person and a diabetic. 

You say you don't have any problems with blood sugar. What tests have you done to come to this conclusion? Most blood tests done around town are for the FBS. Sometimes tests will include an HbA1c, but very few people test their postprandial responses to food. It is quite possible to have normal FBS and HbA1c yet spike badly after meals.

 

Doctors are not very strict with what they call "normal". For example, they will not use the word "prediabetic" as it freaks people out and upsets health insurance companies. They prefer to use the term "insulin resistant", but it's the same. They won't use the words diabetic until you are well and truly diabetic.

Regarding what you said: "My entire journey was listening to my own body and finally getting some answers.  We all should do that."

It might well work with some things, but in reference to blood sugar, nothing could be further from the truth. Absolutely do not try to determine your blood sugar by "listening to your body". You can feel very low blood sugar, but not high blood sugar. The first sign of being diabetic is being very thirsty and drinking a lot. Before you get to that stage you won't know a thing. By that stage (constant levels over 180 mg/dl) you are in a very bad state. People at that stage have already suffered a lot of cellular damage. I don't have a clue what my blood sugar levels are going on feel unless I'm too low, which is very rare. Diabetes type 2 is an insidious disease which is usually caught far too late. Probably decades too late in the worst cases. 

If you don't test it's like being up a river without a paddle. You're guessing,  and as you admitted, there's a huge difference between people, so GL and GI tables just don't cut it.

 

It seems you have the idea I'm out of date. As a person with impaired sugar metabolism myself, nothing could be further from the truth. I'm also searching for the latest information. I'm also active on diabetic forums, which is a good place to learn how things are in the real world, by learning from others with the same condition.

 

 

[dontoearth 300]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

. Obviously, complex carbohydrates such as starch will digest more slowly than say pure sugar. Glycemic Load (GL) is the carbohydrate content of the food. Some foods may be less dense and not provide a high carb content per serving despite the actual carbs in the food having a high GI - therefore providing a lower GL. 
 ALL the carbs you eat will be absorbed. There are no magic carbs on that index that somehow are not absorbed. 

      Have you heard of the strange japanese yam that they make the noodles out of that doesn't digest?  It taste awful I was never able to choke it down.  It is a good example of food not confirming well to our equations.

 

3 hours ago, tropo said:

You say you don't have any problems with blood sugar. What tests have you done to come to this conclusion? Most blood tests done around town are for the FBS. Sometimes tests will include an HbA1c, but very few people test their postprandial responses to food. It is quite possible to have normal FBS and HbA1c yet spike badly after meals.

    Yes I have had the HbA1C everytime I have had a blood panel.  Once of twice a year. It is normal.  It has always been normal.

 

3 hours ago, tropo said:

 

Doctors are not very strict with what they call "normal". For example, they will not use the word "prediabetic" as it freaks people out and upsets health insurance companies. They prefer to use the term "insulin resistant", but it's the same. They won't use the words diabetic until you are well and truly diabetic.

     Doctors in the USA love the term prediabetic and use it often and lovingly as they are now allowed to prescribe lots of pill form insulin upping their doctors visits and prescription fees.  The US pushes those that are insured toward disease not away from it.  BTW!  Many EU countries have found that treating people at this stage decreases life expectancy and increases secondary diseases.  

 

3 hours ago, tropo said:

Regarding what you said: "My entire journey was listening to my own body and finally getting some answers.  We all should do that."

If you don't test it's like being up a river without a paddle. You're guessing,  and as you admitted, there's a huge difference between people, so GL and GI tables just don't cut it.

 

It seems you have the idea I'm out of date. As a person with impaired sugar metabolism myself, nothing could be further from the truth. I'm also searching for the latest information. I'm also active on diabetic forums, 

 

 

      I don't see any reason for me to test.  I do wish my friends with problems would test.   Various scientific medical tables we often argue about like BMI fit the vast majority.  But there are exceptions and you seem to be one of them and I believe it is your devotion to exercise.  If more of the population did such we would be in a much better state of health.

     I was thinking of all the bad advice over the years from the AMA and the American Diabetic association which the doctors offering the newer diet treatments often jokingly refer to as "doctor assisted suicide."

       I was not making any personal reference to you.  I am just amazed at the flood of new science and how it is really conflicting with our base knowledge and preconceived ideas from older science. 

       I am from the generation that was taught how good white bread was for you.  Wonder bread builds your body 12 important ways. (from the commercial)  How a bowl of various processed carbohydrate chucks was necessary EACH AND EVERY morning for good health.  I think you can see why I might be so very skeptical of our previous science base?

[balo 9,604]

Oat meal does not make me more hungry , I do not buy the processed ready oat meals.  I buy the German oat Hahne , 50 baht I think. 

 

But there is one thing that oat does to me , my stomach reacts too quickly after an oat meal, so I will probably end up in the toilet after a few hours.  Maybe good for constipation , but since I do not normally have a problem with that I just end up in the toilet more often than I should. 

  

[tropo 7,497]

9 hours ago, dontoearth said:

      Have you heard of the strange japanese yam that they make the noodles out of that doesn't digest?  It taste awful I was never able to choke it down.  It is a good example of food not confirming well to our equations.

 

    Yes I have had the HbA1C everytime I have had a blood panel.  Once of twice a year. It is normal.  It has always been normal.

 

     Doctors in the USA love the term prediabetic and use it often and lovingly as they are now allowed to prescribe lots of pill form insulin upping their doctors visits and prescription fees.  The US pushes those that are insured toward disease not away from it.  BTW!  Many EU countries have found that treating people at this stage decreases life expectancy and increases secondary diseases.  

 

      I don't see any reason for me to test.  I do wish my friends with problems would test.   Various scientific medical tables we often argue about like BMI fit the vast majority.  But there are exceptions and you seem to be one of them and I believe it is your devotion to exercise.  If more of the population did such we would be in a much better state of health.

     I was thinking of all the bad advice over the years from the AMA and the American Diabetic association which the doctors offering the newer diet treatments often jokingly refer to as "doctor assisted suicide."

       I was not making any personal reference to you.  I am just amazed at the flood of new science and how it is really conflicting with our base knowledge and preconceived ideas from older science. 

       I am from the generation that was taught how good white bread was for you.  Wonder bread builds your body 12 important ways. (from the commercial)  How a bowl of various processed carbohydrate chucks was necessary EACH AND EVERY morning for good health.  I think you can see why I might be so very skeptical of our previous science base?

We also can't digest cellulose, but if you can't digest it it's not really food, but roughage. You'll lose a lot of weight eating grass LOL.

 

I'm pretty sure that the GL and GI tables only cover food where the carbohydrates are 100% digestible. If I'm wrong, please name the food that can't be digested.

 

"You don't see any reason to test".

 

I'll give you some reasons.

 

My HbA1c is normal, my PP readings are normal yet I have elevated FBS. I'm no exception. The Internet is swamped with people wondering why they have high PP readings yet low HbA1c. One reason, the red blood cells don't last as long in diabetics, giving artificially low HbA1c levels.

 

The best marker for diabetes is high PP measurements, not FBS or HbA1c.

 

I don't know about doctors using "prediabetes" in the US. "Insulin resistance" is the term of choice and more appropriate. "Prediabetic" indicates you're on your way to diabetes. That's not always true. "Impaired glucose metabolism" is an even better term.

 

I'll explain why. If I go low carb I can show perfectly normal FBS and HbA1c. If a doctor tested me he'd think I'm completely normal. He wouldn't have a clue that I have insulin resistance yet I've had it for at least 15 years. Everybody that is interested in their health should test. A lot of people are scared to prick their fingers, I get it.

 

 

 

 

 

[dontoearth 300]

On 2/23/2018 at 5:02 PM, tropo said:

We also can't digest cellulose, but if you can't digest it it's not really food, but roughage. You'll lose a lot of weight eating grass LOL.

 

I'm pretty sure that the GL and GI tables only cover food where the carbohydrates are 100% digestible. If I'm wrong, please name the food that can't be digested.

 

"You don't see any reason to test".

 

I'll give you some reasons.

 

My HbA1c is normal, my PP readings are normal yet I have elevated FBS. I'm no exception. The Internet is swamped with people wondering why they have high PP readings yet low HbA1c. One reason, the red blood cells don't last as long in diabetics, giving artificially low HbA1c levels.

 

The best marker for diabetes is high PP measurements, not FBS or HbA1c.

 

I don't know about doctors using "prediabetes" in the US. "Insulin resistance" is the term of choice and more appropriate. "Prediabetic" indicates you're on your way to diabetes. That's not always true. "Impaired glucose metabolism" is an even better term.

 

I'll explain why. If I go low carb I can show perfectly normal FBS and HbA1c. If a doctor tested me he'd think I'm completely normal. He wouldn't have a clue that I have insulin resistance yet I've had it for at least 15 years. Everybody that is interested in their health should test. A lot of people are scared to prick their fingers, I get it.

 

 

 

 

 

     I have normal Hba1c and FBS.   I have never done PP.  It would have been interesting to do when I was weeding out foods in my diet.  I think I could have learned a lot at that time.  Those foods like simple carbs are gone now so I have already completed that portion of my changes.

      I will keep it in mind at some future time.

 

[tropo 7,497]

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

     I have normal Hba1c and FBS.   I have never done PP.  It would have been interesting to do when I was weeding out foods in my diet.  I think I could have learned a lot at that time.  Those foods like simple carbs are gone now so I have already completed that portion of my changes.

      I will keep it in mind at some future time.

 

One of the more interesting things about testing meals is that you're not usually testing single foods, but combinations thereof, which alters how fast they raise blood sugar. A food that is considered bad on its own can work well in combination with another. Protein and fat will slow down the absorption of carbohydrates. That's another reason why GI/GL tables are rather useless in the real world where people normally eat foods in combinations of macronutrients. That being the case, you can easily slow down high GI/GL foods, effectively making your meal equivalent to low GI/GL.

 

Here's a specific example. If you at a very sweet dessert (ice cream, chocolate, cake etc) after a big meal with lots of protein, your blood sugar may not spike. All the carbohydrates will eventually be absorbed though. I've had huge buffet meals in the past with lots of high sugar dessert eaten at the end and had very low PP numbers. LOL> I've even taken my glucometer to restaurants to check.

 

Ultimately, if you still have perfectly normal glucose tolerance, you really shouldn't be too concerned about the GI/GL index. The concern should be that all the carbohydrates will be absorbed, whether they are high or low GI. The total amount is more of a concern to control fat accumulation. There's no such thing as "diabetic death on a plate". If there was I would be long dead. If I can enjoy sugary desserts from time to time, you can too. You have to live a little too.

 

I understand that you haven't tested PP. To do that you need to invest in your own glucometer and most people won't unless they are already diabetic. That's a shame. If you did it might stop you from panicking when you eat certain "bad" (but delicious) foods.

Edited February 24, 2018 by tropo

[dontoearth 300]

6 hours ago, tropo said:

One of the more interesting things about testing meals is that you're not usually testing single foods, but combinations thereof, which alters how fast they raise blood sugar. A food that is considered bad on its own can work well in combination with another. Protein and fat will slow down the absorption of carbohydrates. That's another reason why GI/GL tables are rather useless in the real world where people normally eat foods in combinations of macronutrients. That being the case, you can easily slow down high GI/GL foods, effectively making your meal equivalent to low GI/GL.

 

Here's a specific example. If you at a very sweet dessert (ice cream, chocolate, cake etc) after a big meal with lots of protein, your blood sugar may not spike. All the carbohydrates will eventually be absorbed though. I've had huge buffet meals in the past with lots of high sugar dessert eaten at the end and had very low PP numbers. LOL> I've even taken my glucometer to restaurants to check.

 

Ultimately, if you still have perfectly normal glucose tolerance, you really shouldn't be too concerned about the GI/GL index. The concern should be that all the carbohydrates will be absorbed, whether they are high or low GI. The total amount is more of a concern to control fat accumulation. There's no such thing as "diabetic death on a plate". If there was I would be long dead. If I can enjoy sugary desserts from time to time, you can too. You have to live a little too.

 

I understand that you haven't tested PP. To do that you need to invest in your own glucometer and most people won't unless they are already diabetic. That's a shame. If you did it might stop you from panicking when you eat certain "bad" (but delicious) foods.

     Because of my changing diet lots of food no longer tempts me at all.  Something like ice cream gives me heart burn later.  It is amazing as you start to get rid of some food in your diet that you fasat loose any desire to taste it and on a binge day have strange problems digesting it.

      And you are correct cellulose and fiber don't digest.  That is the whole reason for two rankings such as glucose load and net carbs.  That is basically what they are giving you a rating for in the first place!  And yes they count as food.  Food that you are advised to get more of by almost everyone.  Our deficient fiber diet is causing all sorts of diseases.

       I am aware that vinegar on white potatoes does mute the glycemic load.  I have heard of other combinations.  BTW vinegar is an ingredient u use if you make your own potato salad.  An argument for getting some good recipes and getting into the kitchen.  

[tropo 7,497]

7 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     Because of my changing diet lots of food no longer tempts me at all.  Something like ice cream gives me heart burn later.  It is amazing as you start to get rid of some food in your diet that you fasat loose any desire to taste it and on a binge day have strange problems digesting it.

      And you are correct cellulose and fiber don't digest.  That is the whole reason for two rankings such as glucose load and net carbs.  That is basically what they are giving you a rating for in the first place!  And yes they count as food.  Food that you are advised to get more of by almost everyone.  Our deficient fiber diet is causing all sorts of diseases.

       I am aware that vinegar on white potatoes does mute the glycemic load.  I have heard of other combinations.  BTW vinegar is an ingredient u use if you make your own potato salad.  An argument for getting some good recipes and getting into the kitchen.  

I consume apple cider vinegar every day, first thing in the morning. Apparently, it is supposed to lower your FBS.  

 

I used to get heartburn after certain foods. I no longer suffer from that since I started consuming kefir back in 2011. I know you avoid heartburn by avoiding certain foods, but heartburn indicates a problem with your digestive system that kefir will fix. 

 

I do agree that if you don't eat processed junk food you find it easier to resist.

[Justfine 2,012]

On 25/02/2018 at 6:16 PM, tropo said:

I consume apple cider vinegar every day, first thing in the morning. Apparently, it is supposed to lower your FBS.  

 

I used to get heartburn after certain foods. I no longer suffer from that since I started consuming kefir back in 2011. I know you avoid heartburn by avoiding certain foods, but heartburn indicates a problem with your digestive system that kefir will fix. 

 

I do agree that if you don't eat processed junk food you find it easier to resist.

Tastes like vomit though. Foul stuff.

[tropo 7,497]

10 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Tastes like vomit though. Foul stuff.

Apple Cider vinegar tastes like vinegar. Don't drink it straight, as it's too acidic. I put 25ml in one full glass of water. If that's still too strong, add more water.

 

[Justfine 2,012]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

Apple Cider vinegar tastes like vinegar. Don't drink it straight, as it's too acidic. I put 25ml in one full glass of water. If that's still too strong, add more water.

 

Tastes worse like that. Have to drink more. Straight and little is the only way i can drink it. Awful stuff. Questionable whether its as good as the claims.

[tropo 7,497]

17 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Tastes worse like that. Have to drink more. Straight and little is the only way i can drink it. Awful stuff. Questionable whether its as good as the claims.

If it is that hard to take I wouldn't bother.

 

I started taking it about 6 months ago. I honestly can't notice any benefits. I certainly didn't notice any blood sugar benefits. If you're taking a lot of stuff it's really hard to tell what is working and what isn't. My supply is nearly finished so I'm going to take a break. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that it is beneficial. If you have any, please send it this way.

 

[Justfine 2,012]

I tried it 20 years ago

Tried it again now

 

Havent noticed any benefits

Never finished more than 1/3 of bottle though

 

Havent read credible science on it. Only websites talking it up.

 

Cutting down on carbs my blood pressure went from high to perfect

 

Eating walnuts I notice my energy levels are more consistent

 

But ACV I doubt does anything much. Maybe it helps reflux short term but i rarely get that.

 

I take LSA mix in a shake for fibre

 

 

 

 

[tropo 7,497]

17 hours ago, Justfine said:

I tried it 20 years ago

Tried it again now

 

Havent noticed any benefits

Never finished more than 1/3 of bottle though

 

Havent read credible science on it. Only websites talking it up.

 

Cutting down on carbs my blood pressure went from high to perfect

 

Eating walnuts I notice my energy levels are more consistent

 

But ACV I doubt does anything much. Maybe it helps reflux short term but i rarely get that.

 

I take LSA mix in a shake for fibre

 

5

The main reason why I started using it in the first place was for blood sugar control. There has been one scientific double-blind study on its effect on fasting blood sugar (FBS) if taken at night. I haven't noticed any difference myself, but my FBS can vary quite a bit, more than the small percentage improvement that the study showed. I didn't take it before bed though because I take too much other stuff before bed and the vinegar wouldn't work well with it.