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University degree an obligation?


KevT

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I think the "educational certificate" or "education degree" mentioned in all the legal and embassy documents regarding a work permit doesn't have to be a university degree. There are many jobs which people do where a degree other than a bachelor's degree is what is needed.

And why would the degree for a work permit, to teach at a language centre (which is exempted from TCT requirement), need to be related to teaching if the university degree needed to get a teacher's license doesn't even have to be related to teaching?

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13 hours ago, thequietman said:

Online universities require real discipline. Holding down a job, taking care of a family and studying also, is a real difficult prospect. The TCT accepts Open University UK degrees, so that cancels out that opinion.

 

That's because they don't have a grasp of online "Universities". It seems you don't either. Nothing wrong with continuing your education online but we were referring to the University experience in our comment, not the benefit or lack of benefits of online education. It's a joke to any real employer when interaction with other human beings is involved. I frankly see them(online Universities) as nothing but attempts to make money. However, if you can learn math or science online have at it. Learning how to deal with different people, people who look different, act different, have different emotional priorities and backgrounds, well mate, you ain't going to get that online. God Bless You.

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36 minutes ago, KevT said:

I think the "educational certificate" or "education degree" mentioned in all the legal and embassy documents regarding a work permit doesn't have to be a university degree. There are many jobs which people do where a degree other than a bachelor's degree is what is needed.

And why would the degree for a work permit, to teach at a language centre (which is exempted from TCT requirement), need to be related to teaching if the university degree needed to get a teacher's license doesn't even have to be related to teaching?

It depends if the "language school" is strong or just some agent with a phone. Please also keep in mind, Thailand unlike many countries, wants it's people getting the jobs Thai's can do. They don't take kindly or legally to foreigners coming in and taking the "middle income" jobs such as teaching English.

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2 hours ago, KevT said:

 

And regarding being fluent in Thai, while it may not be of any use regarding government establishments, it can be a very good asset for language centres looking for good teachers, as well as getting to know people that work there.

 

Please expand on your claim to be "fluent in Thai"? How is that possible ? You would have to have been raised by a Thai speaking Thai from birth to now to you? You don't get fluent learning online or even  in a classroom. Speaking Thai is not what schools need or want. As far as getting to know the people you work with, that again doesn't make sense. You are working alone for the most part, with the learners. If you speak Thai to them, you are defeating the purpose of being there. The Thai's can teach English in Thai without you. So are you in fact Thai and "fluent" in English due to growing up in Canada? It's okay if you are but for some reason you have lost the plot about speaking Thai. People don't want to get to know you. They are there for the money. Cheers mate and good luck. 

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25 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

Please expand on your claim to be "fluent in Thai"? How is that possible ? You would have to have been raised by a Thai speaking Thai from birth to now to you? You don't get fluent learning online or even  in a classroom. Speaking Thai is not what schools need or want. As far as getting to know the people you work with, that again doesn't make sense. You are working alone for the most part, with the learners. If you speak Thai to them, you are defeating the purpose of being there. The Thai's can teach English in Thai without you. So are you in fact Thai and "fluent" in English due to growing up in Canada? It's okay if you are but for some reason you have lost the plot about speaking Thai. People don't want to get to know you. They are there for the money. Cheers mate and good luck. 

 

I never said I was fluent in Thai. I said that by then (when I will be traveling to Thailand), I will be. At the moment, I can read, write and hold good conversations. I also have lessons and Thai friends, both online (in Thailand) and face-to-face. My current work makes it that I organize my own schedule, so I can study anywhere from 1 hour to 8 hours every day. I am not native-level, this being completely different from fluency, which with hard work and lots of study, is very much possible in a few years time. Cheers.

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46 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

Please expand on your claim to be "fluent in Thai"? How is that possible ? You would have to have been raised by a Thai speaking Thai from birth to now to you? You don't get fluent learning online or even  in a classroom. Speaking Thai is not what schools need or want. As far as getting to know the people you work with, that again doesn't make sense. You are working alone for the most part, with the learners. If you speak Thai to them, you are defeating the purpose of being there. The Thai's can teach English in Thai without you. So are you in fact Thai and "fluent" in English due to growing up in Canada? It's okay if you are but for some reason you have lost the plot about speaking Thai. People don't want to get to know you. They are there for the money. Cheers mate and good luck. 

 

While speaking Thai very often with students isn't a good idea, being able to explain concepts, grammar, words, etc. in Thai can be very useful. If a teacher wouldn't be able speak Thai at all, and if the students would barely speak any English, it would take a really long time to get to a point where there is some communication that takes place (a bit like a baby learns words by having heard it 20 or 30 times, let alone grammar or concepts). Teaching a word in English simply by translating it in Thai takes 2 seconds (for words that are directly translatable). Trying to teach an English word, by explaining it in English, when the student has difficulty understanding English in the first place, will take much longer.

 

Just look up Adam Bradshaw. He mostly speaks Thai when teaching. And he reached native-level in Thai in a very short period of time (although that was a crazy accomplishment on his part).

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The 'education degree' refers to 'bachelor of education' (BEd.)  As someone has already said this is a requirement of OBEC which is in charge of what would traditionally be called a 'school'. There are opportunities in private language schools and also universities that do not fall under OBEC where it is possible to get a work permit without having that qualification.

 

You might find these sites useful although the TCT site is pretty dismal.

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15388-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"B"-(for-Business-and.html

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/home.php?site=englishsite

 

[Edit- you can can a waiver from TCT if you do not have an education degree if you have a different Bachelor's degree and then do the extra study needed.

 

You do hear of people in the OBEC system who have work permits etc without a bachelor degree, but they are few and far between as far as I know.]

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4 minutes ago, Slip said:

The 'education degree' refers to 'bachelor of education' (BEd.)  As someone has already said this is a requirement of OBEC which is in charge of what would traditionally be called a 'school'. There are opportunities in private language schools and also universities that do not fall under OBEC where it is possible to get a work permit without having that qualification.

 

You might find these sites useful although the TCT site is pretty dismal.

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15388-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"B"-(for-Business-and.html

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/home.php?site=englishsite

 

Hi Slip,

 

Thanks for the input.

 

For the 'education degree', it was regarding obtaining a work permit. I don't see how a bachelor's degree would be required for all cases where a work permit is needed. Or—for teaching positions, both schools and private language schools (that don't come under TCT requirement)—do the work permit requirements change according to the position?

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The Teachers Council have their own requirement which is the Bachelors in Education that I referred to- sorry.  Here is the information about being able to start working with a normal Bachelors degree from the TCT website:

http://site.ksp.or.th/about.php?site=license&SiteMenuID=221

 

and here for the fully fledged teaching licence.

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/about.php?site=license&SiteMenuID=221

 

As I said before this applies to OBEC schools- language schools and universities have different rules, and I understand that it is at least possible to get a work permit in these places without a Bachelors Degree, but I have no direct experience of this, sorry.

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1 hour ago, KevT said:

 

While speaking Thai very often with students isn't a good idea, being able to explain concepts, grammar, words, etc. in Thai can be very useful. If a teacher wouldn't be able speak Thai at all, and if the students would barely speak any English, it would take a really long time to get to a point where there is some communication that takes place (a bit like a baby learns words by having heard it 20 or 30 times, let alone grammar or concepts). Teaching a word in English simply by translating it in Thai takes 2 seconds (for words that are directly translatable). Trying to teach an English word, by explaining it in English, when the student has difficulty understanding English in the first place, will take much longer.

 

 

Well mate, you are in conflict with the rest of the world, including educated Thai professors. This has been studied and hammered out over decades and the conclusion reached, don't speak Thai when teaching English. There is a reason they hire English speakers, NES's and in many cases, Filipinos and other nationalities with above average English speaking abilities, to teach English. Your logical conclusion above just isn't how it is in the real world. 

 

If I want to learn Spanish, I'm not going to do so with an English speaker who is good in Spanish. It takes a native Spanish speaking person/teacher. Even in my high school the Spanish and French teachers were native speakers of same. They would not even consider, well you get the point I hope. 

 

It's not the "it will take much longer" which applies. It's the forcing the student to communicate in English which in turn, forces them to learn it. 

 

Got to go. Good luck. 

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3 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

That's because they don't have a grasp of online "Universities". It seems you don't either. Nothing wrong with continuing your education online but we were referring to the University experience in our comment, not the benefit or lack of benefits of online education. It's a joke to any real employer when interaction with other human beings is involved. I frankly see them(online Universities) as nothing but attempts to make money. However, if you can learn math or science online have at it. Learning how to deal with different people, people who look different, act different, have different emotional priorities and backgrounds, well mate, you ain't going to get that online. God Bless You.

So, by your thinking, a 40 year old adult undertaking an online degree, who has numerous years in the workplace dealing with all manner of people, cultures, skin colors. Dealing with their issues, complaints and providing solutions counts for nothing?  Get over yourself! I always try to see your points of view and although you do appear to be a very difficult person and seem to embrace confrontation, I try to see it from your side also. However in this case, you are just wrong and seem to disagree just for the sake of it. 

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16 hours ago, KevT said:

 

In the province in Canada that I live in, we have a school between high school and university. In most countries, students go from high school and then directly to university. Here, after high school, we do 2-3 years in college and then head off to university for 3-4 more years. I considered university way too expensive and not that useful, so I chose other avenues, of which 2 college degrees were part of this.

 

I guess that someone without a university degree in the rest of the world would basically only have a high school degree. 

What Province is it that you have to go to community college before university?

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16 hours ago, KevT said:

 

In the province in Canada that I live in, we have a school between high school and university. In most countries, students go from high school and then directly to university. Here, after high school, we do 2-3 years in college and then head off to university for 3-4 more years. I considered university way too expensive and not that useful, so I chose other avenues, of which 2 college degrees were part of this.

 

I guess that someone without a university degree in the rest of the world would basically only have a high school degree. 

What you might look into that came out a few years ago might be getting a degree without having to go through a normal university curriculum. It's not "open university" and I can't remember how it's done. The cost is considerably less without the high tuition costs, but you miss out on the dorky memories of that most important aspect of the "maturing" university social life.   

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1 hour ago, thequietman said:

So, by your thinking, a 40 year old adult undertaking an online degree, who has numerous years in the workplace dealing with all manner of people, cultures, skin colors. Dealing with their issues, complaints and providing solutions counts for nothing?  Get over yourself! I always try to see your points of view and although you do appear to be a very difficult person and seem to embrace confrontation, I try to see it from your side also. However in this case, you are just wrong and seem to disagree just for the sake of it. 

Our context was a person just out of high school, not a 40 year old adult seeking to improve his/her knowledge. Sorry you see everything as a conflict, it isn't intentional. We are all here to gain insight and knowledge about living and working in Thailand. God Bless You. 

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Be a lady from the Phillies with some English experience, no paper required, but you must agree on 12 to 15 thousand a month. A farang teacher with all the paperwork might be kicked out instead, after the school has received the subsidies for him from Bangkok.

 

Other well educated teachers, with diplomas in education, who taught and stayed in the U.S. or G.B. for years, may be accepted, as they are not native speakers.

 

Comme ci comme ça.

 

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17 hours ago, KevT said:

Say for countries where the educational system isn't the same or the naming is different as the US, is there a way to contact the Ministry of Education or somewhere else in Thailand to have the degree be recognized as on par or the same as a university degree?

 

Why would they do that, when the qualification isn't a university degree equivalent?

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21 hours ago, KevT said:

 

I agree. Though having 2 college degrees and having some teaching experience does have its own weight.

 

Colleges in Canada come before university. I did a total of 6 years of education (actual schools), in two different programs after high school. Sad that I can't teach in Thailand only because I don't have a paper that says B.A. (or other) on it. :sad:

Better go get your dictionary out and check what a BA means in most parts of the world.  I seem to think it means Bachelor of Arts and if you completed a program and were awarded a BA you have a college degree. Which seems to meet the qualifications .  If you only equate University with what most people consider a post graduate program like masters or PHD, then oops you miss the mark. But I think a BA or BS degree meeting the requirements.

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9 hours ago, KevT said:

 

Thanks for the response. Yes, I agree that a degree is important. I'm just trying to assess if the college degrees that I have can be considered as university-level education, and if not, if there are other ways or places (legal) where I can teach of which a university or bachelor's degree isn't a requirement. 

Nope, there's no other way you may as well try China or Vietnam. You could go to smaller town or cities that may give you WP. Fluency in Thai won't get you far in school like other poster said, it's advantage for everyday communication with the locals. 

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6 hours ago, Slip said:

The Teachers Council have their own requirement which is the Bachelors in Education that I referred to- sorry.  Here is the information about being able to start working with a normal Bachelors degree from the TCT website:

http://site.ksp.or.th/about.php?site=license&SiteMenuID=221

 

and here for the fully fledged teaching licence.

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/about.php?site=license&SiteMenuID=221

 

As I said before this applies to OBEC schools- language schools and universities have different rules, and I understand that it is at least possible to get a work permit in these places without a Bachelors Degree, but I have no direct experience of this, sorry.

 

Thanks!

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Forgive me if i'm wrong but I think that you actually have 2 college diplomas, these are not degrees they are akin to the UK A levels (advanced levels) these are the exams you would have to pass to get to go to university.

Once you have these then you can apply to universities to do a degree which would take a further 3 - 4 years study.

Something to maybe consider would be an open university degree which you can do in your own time at your own pace and at distance so you don't have to actually attend the university, you just do the exams at an accredited place.

As my own education is only as far as A levels or college, I could have gone to university but possibly like yourself I wanted to do different things and ended up moving abroad soon after my A levels, I did actually do a couple of years teaching English in Thailand but that was back in the early nineties and it was easier then to get away with it then without having a degree. I did enjoy a lot of the lessons that I had but I don't think I want to get back into it now as there are other things I want to do now.

Having said that I am looking at possibly doing an open university degree to further my own education and give me something to possibly fall back on in years to come.

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6 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

Well mate, you are in conflict with the rest of the world, including educated Thai professors. This has been studied and hammered out over decades and the conclusion reached, don't speak Thai when teaching English. There is a reason they hire English speakers, NES's and in many cases, Filipinos and other nationalities with above average English speaking abilities, to teach English. Your logical conclusion above just isn't how it is in the real world. 

 

If I want to learn Spanish, I'm not going to do so with an English speaker who is good in Spanish. It takes a native Spanish speaking person/teacher. Even in my high school the Spanish and French teachers were native speakers of same. They would not even consider, well you get the point I hope. 

 

It's not the "it will take much longer" which applies. It's the forcing the student to communicate in English which in turn, forces them to learn it. 

 

Got to go. Good luck. 

 

There are two schools of thought on this, and yes, the debate has probably been going on for hundreds of years. I think both are true, with the use of the native language at the start or solely to explain more abstract concepts being very useful. 

 

3 hours ago, silent said:

What you might look into that came out a few years ago might be getting a degree without having to go through a normal university curriculum. It's not "open university" and I can't remember how it's done. The cost is considerably less without the high tuition costs, but you miss out on the dorky memories of that most important aspect of the "maturing" university social life.   

 

Hmm. That sounds interesting. Would you know what it is called or have a link? I am trying to search for it, but not coming up with much.

 

2 hours ago, fxe1200 said:

Be a lady from the Phillies with some English experience, no paper required, but you must agree on 12 to 15 thousand a month. A farang teacher with all the paperwork might be kicked out instead, after the school has received the subsidies for him from Bangkok.

 

Other well educated teachers, with diplomas in education, who taught and stayed in the U.S. or G.B. for years, may be accepted, as they are not native speakers.

 

Comme ci comme ça.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "being a lady from the Phillies".

 

2 hours ago, SoiBiker said:

 

Why would they do that, when the qualification isn't a university degree equivalent?

 

It's a 3-year degree. What if it is equivalent? I think it's worth asking an embassy and possibly have it recognized as so. It's worth a try.

 

1 hour ago, dansbkk said:

Better go get your dictionary out and check what a BA means in most parts of the world.  I seem to think it means Bachelor of Arts and if you completed a program and were awarded a BA you have a college degree. Which seems to meet the qualifications .  If you only equate University with what most people consider a post graduate program like masters or PHD, then oops you miss the mark. But I think a BA or BS degree meeting the requirements.

 

I have a college degree (in Canada, colleges and universities are two types of schools). I don't have a master's, nor a Ph.D. 

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5 minutes ago, zd1 said:

Forgive me if i'm wrong but I think that you actually have 2 college diplomas, these are not degrees they are akin to the UK A levels (advanced levels) these are the exams you would have to pass to get to go to university.

Once you have these then you can apply to universities to do a degree which would take a further 3 - 4 years study.

Something to maybe consider would be an open university degree which you can do in your own time at your own pace and at distance so you don't have to actually attend the university, you just do the exams at an accredited place.

As my own education is only as far as A levels or college, I could have gone to university but possibly like yourself I wanted to do different things and ended up moving abroad soon after my A levels, I did actually do a couple of years teaching English in Thailand but that was back in the early nineties and it was easier then to get away with it then without having a degree. I did enjoy a lot of the lessons that I had but I don't think I want to get back into it now as there are other things I want to do now.

Having said that I am looking at possibly doing an open university degree to further my own education and give me something to possibly fall back on in years to come.

 

Maybe. It was a 3-year degree (diploma) though, with a school solely for college degrees, not just an exam (although maybe that's not what you meant of what A levels were).

 

Thanks a lot for the open university suggestion. Do you know if that that would be accepted to get a teacher's license in Thailand for sure?

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2 minutes ago, KevT said:

 

Maybe. It was a 3-year degree (diploma) though, with a school solely for college degrees, not just an exam (although maybe that's not what you meant of what A levels were).

 

Thanks a lot for the open university suggestion. Do you know if that that would be accepted to get a teacher's license in Thailand for sure?

 

So is it a degree or a diploma?

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The open university in the UK is highly regarded and of equal value to a full time course, but be aware their degrees take substantially longer to complete.  (6 years is not uncommon).

 

http://www.open.ac.uk/

 

As for using Thai for beginner/ young Thai learners, extreme caution must be exercised.  The differences between pronunciation and, for example spelling and hand writing, are fraught with problems.  On a daily basis I see fossilised issues inherent in my students. These were caused by them being taught by non-native speakers and  are still there at 16-18 years of age.

 

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Kevin  

 

From one canuck to another.

 

1st, language schools do not want you to speak Thai under any circumstance.    They want you to speak English only so that they look better.

2nd you can get work at other schools but you will not get it at top schools and no you will not get a long term visa or work permit.

 

There is a BA course here that you can take while you are teaching but it will take 3 years.

 

EVERYONE ELSE

 

Canada has 3 levels of education 

 

High school now grade 12 

College - in English terms for most of you it would be trade school (what it really is is a place where you are taught to do the job not the theory of it.

 

University where you get the theory and not necessarily the hands on.

 

Most Universities will not give credit for college course as they are not usually transferable.

 

 

Kevin I believe that you mentioned the monastic way of life.  If that is the case I would suggest that you contact a few of the schools that are run by monks and teach there.  It would probably give you the best education as to what you would be looking at if you joined the monastery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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