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KevT

University degree an obligation?

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I think the "educational certificate" or "education degree" mentioned in all the legal and embassy documents regarding a work permit doesn't have to be a university degree. There are many jobs which people do where a degree other than a bachelor's degree is what is needed.

And why would the degree for a work permit, to teach at a language centre (which is exempted from TCT requirement), need to be related to teaching if the university degree needed to get a teacher's license doesn't even have to be related to teaching?

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13 hours ago, thequietman said:

Online universities require real discipline. Holding down a job, taking care of a family and studying also, is a real difficult prospect. The TCT accepts Open University UK degrees, so that cancels out that opinion.

 

That's because they don't have a grasp of online "Universities". It seems you don't either. Nothing wrong with continuing your education online but we were referring to the University experience in our comment, not the benefit or lack of benefits of online education. It's a joke to any real employer when interaction with other human beings is involved. I frankly see them(online Universities) as nothing but attempts to make money. However, if you can learn math or science online have at it. Learning how to deal with different people, people who look different, act different, have different emotional priorities and backgrounds, well mate, you ain't going to get that online. God Bless You.

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36 minutes ago, KevT said:

I think the "educational certificate" or "education degree" mentioned in all the legal and embassy documents regarding a work permit doesn't have to be a university degree. There are many jobs which people do where a degree other than a bachelor's degree is what is needed.

And why would the degree for a work permit, to teach at a language centre (which is exempted from TCT requirement), need to be related to teaching if the university degree needed to get a teacher's license doesn't even have to be related to teaching?

It depends if the "language school" is strong or just some agent with a phone. Please also keep in mind, Thailand unlike many countries, wants it's people getting the jobs Thai's can do. They don't take kindly or legally to foreigners coming in and taking the "middle income" jobs such as teaching English.

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2 hours ago, KevT said:

 

And regarding being fluent in Thai, while it may not be of any use regarding government establishments, it can be a very good asset for language centres looking for good teachers, as well as getting to know people that work there.

 

Please expand on your claim to be "fluent in Thai"? How is that possible ? You would have to have been raised by a Thai speaking Thai from birth to now to you? You don't get fluent learning online or even  in a classroom. Speaking Thai is not what schools need or want. As far as getting to know the people you work with, that again doesn't make sense. You are working alone for the most part, with the learners. If you speak Thai to them, you are defeating the purpose of being there. The Thai's can teach English in Thai without you. So are you in fact Thai and "fluent" in English due to growing up in Canada? It's okay if you are but for some reason you have lost the plot about speaking Thai. People don't want to get to know you. They are there for the money. Cheers mate and good luck. 

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25 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

Please expand on your claim to be "fluent in Thai"? How is that possible ? You would have to have been raised by a Thai speaking Thai from birth to now to you? You don't get fluent learning online or even  in a classroom. Speaking Thai is not what schools need or want. As far as getting to know the people you work with, that again doesn't make sense. You are working alone for the most part, with the learners. If you speak Thai to them, you are defeating the purpose of being there. The Thai's can teach English in Thai without you. So are you in fact Thai and "fluent" in English due to growing up in Canada? It's okay if you are but for some reason you have lost the plot about speaking Thai. People don't want to get to know you. They are there for the money. Cheers mate and good luck. 

 

I never said I was fluent in Thai. I said that by then (when I will be traveling to Thailand), I will be. At the moment, I can read, write and hold good conversations. I also have lessons and Thai friends, both online (in Thailand) and face-to-face. My current work makes it that I organize my own schedule, so I can study anywhere from 1 hour to 8 hours every day. I am not native-level, this being completely different from fluency, which with hard work and lots of study, is very much possible in a few years time. Cheers.

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46 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

Please expand on your claim to be "fluent in Thai"? How is that possible ? You would have to have been raised by a Thai speaking Thai from birth to now to you? You don't get fluent learning online or even  in a classroom. Speaking Thai is not what schools need or want. As far as getting to know the people you work with, that again doesn't make sense. You are working alone for the most part, with the learners. If you speak Thai to them, you are defeating the purpose of being there. The Thai's can teach English in Thai without you. So are you in fact Thai and "fluent" in English due to growing up in Canada? It's okay if you are but for some reason you have lost the plot about speaking Thai. People don't want to get to know you. They are there for the money. Cheers mate and good luck. 

 

While speaking Thai very often with students isn't a good idea, being able to explain concepts, grammar, words, etc. in Thai can be very useful. If a teacher wouldn't be able speak Thai at all, and if the students would barely speak any English, it would take a really long time to get to a point where there is some communication that takes place (a bit like a baby learns words by having heard it 20 or 30 times, let alone grammar or concepts). Teaching a word in English simply by translating it in Thai takes 2 seconds (for words that are directly translatable). Trying to teach an English word, by explaining it in English, when the student has difficulty understanding English in the first place, will take much longer.

 

Just look up Adam Bradshaw. He mostly speaks Thai when teaching. And he reached native-level in Thai in a very short period of time (although that was a crazy accomplishment on his part).

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I contacted the Canadian Thai embassy. Should be getting news from them in a few days or a week.

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The 'education degree' refers to 'bachelor of education' (BEd.)  As someone has already said this is a requirement of OBEC which is in charge of what would traditionally be called a 'school'. There are opportunities in private language schools and also universities that do not fall under OBEC where it is possible to get a work permit without having that qualification.

 

You might find these sites useful although the TCT site is pretty dismal.

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15388-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"B"-(for-Business-and.html

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/home.php?site=englishsite

 

[Edit- you can can a waiver from TCT if you do not have an education degree if you have a different Bachelor's degree and then do the extra study needed.

 

You do hear of people in the OBEC system who have work permits etc without a bachelor degree, but they are few and far between as far as I know.]

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4 minutes ago, Slip said:

The 'education degree' refers to 'bachelor of education' (BEd.)  As someone has already said this is a requirement of OBEC which is in charge of what would traditionally be called a 'school'. There are opportunities in private language schools and also universities that do not fall under OBEC where it is possible to get a work permit without having that qualification.

 

You might find these sites useful although the TCT site is pretty dismal.

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15388-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"B"-(for-Business-and.html

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/home.php?site=englishsite

 

Hi Slip,

 

Thanks for the input.

 

For the 'education degree', it was regarding obtaining a work permit. I don't see how a bachelor's degree would be required for all cases where a work permit is needed. Or—for teaching positions, both schools and private language schools (that don't come under TCT requirement)—do the work permit requirements change according to the position?

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The Teachers Council have their own requirement which is the Bachelors in Education that I referred to- sorry.  Here is the information about being able to start working with a normal Bachelors degree from the TCT website:

http://site.ksp.or.th/about.php?site=license&SiteMenuID=221

 

and here for the fully fledged teaching licence.

 

http://site.ksp.or.th/about.php?site=license&SiteMenuID=221

 

As I said before this applies to OBEC schools- language schools and universities have different rules, and I understand that it is at least possible to get a work permit in these places without a Bachelors Degree, but I have no direct experience of this, sorry.

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1 hour ago, KevT said:

 

While speaking Thai very often with students isn't a good idea, being able to explain concepts, grammar, words, etc. in Thai can be very useful. If a teacher wouldn't be able speak Thai at all, and if the students would barely speak any English, it would take a really long time to get to a point where there is some communication that takes place (a bit like a baby learns words by having heard it 20 or 30 times, let alone grammar or concepts). Teaching a word in English simply by translating it in Thai takes 2 seconds (for words that are directly translatable). Trying to teach an English word, by explaining it in English, when the student has difficulty understanding English in the first place, will take much longer.

 

 

Well mate, you are in conflict with the rest of the world, including educated Thai professors. This has been studied and hammered out over decades and the conclusion reached, don't speak Thai when teaching English. There is a reason they hire English speakers, NES's and in many cases, Filipinos and other nationalities with above average English speaking abilities, to teach English. Your logical conclusion above just isn't how it is in the real world. 

 

If I want to learn Spanish, I'm not going to do so with an English speaker who is good in Spanish. It takes a native Spanish speaking person/teacher. Even in my high school the Spanish and French teachers were native speakers of same. They would not even consider, well you get the point I hope. 

 

It's not the "it will take much longer" which applies. It's the forcing the student to communicate in English which in turn, forces them to learn it. 

 

Got to go. Good luck. 

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3 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

That's because they don't have a grasp of online "Universities". It seems you don't either. Nothing wrong with continuing your education online but we were referring to the University experience in our comment, not the benefit or lack of benefits of online education. It's a joke to any real employer when interaction with other human beings is involved. I frankly see them(online Universities) as nothing but attempts to make money. However, if you can learn math or science online have at it. Learning how to deal with different people, people who look different, act different, have different emotional priorities and backgrounds, well mate, you ain't going to get that online. God Bless You.

So, by your thinking, a 40 year old adult undertaking an online degree, who has numerous years in the workplace dealing with all manner of people, cultures, skin colors. Dealing with their issues, complaints and providing solutions counts for nothing?  Get over yourself! I always try to see your points of view and although you do appear to be a very difficult person and seem to embrace confrontation, I try to see it from your side also. However in this case, you are just wrong and seem to disagree just for the sake of it. 

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16 hours ago, KevT said:

 

In the province in Canada that I live in, we have a school between high school and university. In most countries, students go from high school and then directly to university. Here, after high school, we do 2-3 years in college and then head off to university for 3-4 more years. I considered university way too expensive and not that useful, so I chose other avenues, of which 2 college degrees were part of this.

 

I guess that someone without a university degree in the rest of the world would basically only have a high school degree. 

What Province is it that you have to go to community college before university?

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16 hours ago, KevT said:

 

In the province in Canada that I live in, we have a school between high school and university. In most countries, students go from high school and then directly to university. Here, after high school, we do 2-3 years in college and then head off to university for 3-4 more years. I considered university way too expensive and not that useful, so I chose other avenues, of which 2 college degrees were part of this.

 

I guess that someone without a university degree in the rest of the world would basically only have a high school degree. 

What you might look into that came out a few years ago might be getting a degree without having to go through a normal university curriculum. It's not "open university" and I can't remember how it's done. The cost is considerably less without the high tuition costs, but you miss out on the dorky memories of that most important aspect of the "maturing" university social life.   

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1 hour ago, thequietman said:

So, by your thinking, a 40 year old adult undertaking an online degree, who has numerous years in the workplace dealing with all manner of people, cultures, skin colors. Dealing with their issues, complaints and providing solutions counts for nothing?  Get over yourself! I always try to see your points of view and although you do appear to be a very difficult person and seem to embrace confrontation, I try to see it from your side also. However in this case, you are just wrong and seem to disagree just for the sake of it. 

Our context was a person just out of high school, not a 40 year old adult seeking to improve his/her knowledge. Sorry you see everything as a conflict, it isn't intentional. We are all here to gain insight and knowledge about living and working in Thailand. God Bless You. 

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