New drunk-driving law would punish families

[Lupatria]

11 hours ago, balo said:

Great idea , so if the family is broke , who's paying ? 

 

 

Stupid question,- the next door neighbors of course!  

[Lupatria]

27 minutes ago, bark said:

They need to make the bars and server, responsible also. Same as in the West.

How about the manufacturer and the 7-Eleven staff who sold the booze?

[Gary A]

Absolutely stupid proposal. So, if I get in a taxi and the driver is drunk, I get in trouble also?

[hobobo]

I'm 89 years old and don't drive anymore. My son (40), my only living close relative, often drives under influence - if he can't walk straight he probably can't drive straight! So do they mean I'll have to pay his fines from my meagre pension?

[chrisinth]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Full Story: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/New-drunkdriving-law-punish-families/65696?desktopversion#ad-image-0

 

Just in case anyone didn't read the linked story, and are just off on one because it sounds ridiculous, here is an extract (points of note in bold to help you):

 

"There are several authorities working on this law at the moment, including the Thai Health Promotion Foundation in Bangkok, which is studying what should be done with laws related to drunk driving," said Phuket Land Transport Office chief Sommai Sudkhao.

 

"To my knowledge, the legal alcohol limit will be lowered from the current .05 per cent blood alcohol content," stated Mr Sommai. "The idea behind this legislation is to punish the parents of teens who drink and drive. That will incentivize parents and other family members to stop the drunk drivers from getting behind the wheel.

 

"This is to make the family take more responsibility over their family members instead of letting them drive off and put other peoples’ lives at risk. However, it’s just an idea at the moment - nothing is official yet," he added.

 

Maybe its just me, but I can't see anything wrong with this idea. Personally if it keeps one drunk teenager from behind the wheel of a vehicle or off a motorcycle, it is a step in the right direction.

[The Deerhunter]

3 hours ago, topt said:

Did anybody bother to read the linked article.............it seems to specifically mention parents of teens as being the target........

It may be intended to do that, but does it specifically say that or is the alternative interpretation equally viable?

[Confuscious]

Sippenhaft

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Sippenhaft or Sippenhaftung (German: [ˈzɪpənˌhaft(ʊŋ)], kin liability^[1]) refers to the principle of a family sharing the responsibility for a crime committed by one of its members, a form of guilt by association. A relative of the perpetrator could thus be punished in place of or in addition to the perpetrator, depending on the circumstances.

As a legal principle, it is derived from Germanic law in the middle ages, there usually in the form of fines and compensations. The same principle is historically found in many pre-Christian European cultures, and in non-Western cultures such as that of China and Japan. In the modern era kin guilt is rarely given legal basis, though it remains common in clan-based societies. In exceptional cases, Sippenhaft-like punishments are used as a deterrent against terrorism, such as in the Russian Federation.

Another form of Sippenhaft distinct from traditional kin liability is the practice of kin punishment, often used in totalitarian states as a form of extortion or harassment, most associated with Nazi Germany towards the end of World War II, but also used by the East German communist regime e.g. in the form of imprisonment, and by many other authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. Contemporary examples of this form of Sippenhaft include North Korea.^[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft

[freebyrd]

How very Thai this is .

[Moti24]

Yet another future law that has been aired before somebody with some common sense (Yes, I know that finding somebody with that attribute would be difficult!) has given a thought to the possible scenarios.  It's not family members that should be held responsible, but the owner of the vehicle, family member or not.  Until the existing laws are upheld 100%, nothing will change, except the need for a bigger tea swindle box.

 

Let's get real and propose a law for DUI offenses, leaving the other infringements like no licence, insurance etc, aside:

 

          Driver - Heavy fine (Not 500 Baht) and/or 1 month imprisonment.  If vehicle is owned by the driver, it will be impounded until               fine/imprisonment has been paid/served.

 

          Owner of vehicle, if not the driver - Option to leave the vehicle impounded for the 1 month or pay a heavy fine (TBD) for it to be released.

 

          Collection of impounded vehicle can only be made with production of a valid driving licence, insurance and current tax disc.

 

Of course, the above would only be applicable if no other vehicles were involved; ie: Pulled-up at roadside check point.  DUI offenders involved in an accident; well, the sky's the limit, but I would expect the law to cover the innocent party/parties.  No doubt, the argument about suffering for the family rears its ugly head, but "No pain, no gain", as the saying goes.  The message will get across eventually.

[anon467367354]

Drunk driving is not the main cause of motor vehicle deaths in Thailand in my opinion. Here's a quick fact: 14,059 reported road-deaths per year, 24,237 actual deaths says WHO, 70% on motorbikes, lack of traffic law enforcement.

The real killer and reason for so many deaths are the laws. These are laws that kill. For some reason, opposite of what those of us that were raised in western cultures, is defensive driving and to stay out of other vehicle's blind spot. The law in Thailand for motorcycles is that we are required to ride in the blind spot. Us riders are to stay to the left of the road, the blind spot for all other drivers, and compete with the taxis, buses, vendors, cars entering and exiting businesses and pedestrians. Not to mention buses on busy roads stop, load and unload blocking the 2nd and 3rd lanes rather than pull over to the left. But then again they may take out a motorcycle in doing that.

For what reason would it make sense to have motorcycle riders having to drive in the most dangerous section of the road, the far left? Another thing that slows down traffic and causes accidents is motorcycles are prohibited from using the flyovers. Wouldn't it make sense to encourage motorcyclists to stay out of the intersections if possible? What is the point of having dozens and dozens of motorcycles filtering to the front of the line at a traffic light when all the other cars have to wait while the motorcycles are all jockeying and cutting in front of other cars? It just slows things down as well as knock people off their bikes, its just crazy.

The expressway would be the safest place for motorcycles if they have the speed, and really all of them do. No stopping, no cars pulling out in front of you, very few buses, no songtaews and no taxis picking up customer and definitely no vendors. When I talk to the Thai people about laws that kill and what is the reason for them, the majority reply it's so the police can stop motorcycles and extort money. Safety is not the real issue in regards to Thai roads and their laws, it's about extorting money firstly.

Change the laws! Treat motorcycles like any other vehicle and let us ride in the safest parts of the roads here, usually the far right lane. Let us use the flyovers for our own safety. Most of all let's stop these dangerous road blocking police stops. There is nothing more frustrating than coming over a hill only to find cars illegally parked on the left, a truck that has been stopped by the police in the second lane, and a cop in the 3rd lane waving you over to stop. This is very intentional and highly resembles entrapment. Change the laws, stop the bloody deaths.

[fabphil]

9 hours ago, Xircal said:

Ridiculous idea. What the police need to do is get out on the roads during the time of day when most drunk driving accidents occur and run breathalyser checks on anyone driving too fast or erratically.

 

 

 

u dont have to be driving to fast or erractically to be drunk, most drivers exceeding the BAL are merrily driving along :)

[farcanell]

What a great idea... often suggested herein, I believe.

 

and... a win win for police, as it forces families to self police, for free, saving the real police work for the highly trained police force of Thailand (like hassling tourists etc etc, or warming inactive posting seats)

 

but truthfully, I do partially blame parents for their offsprings actions... to a limited point, as you can only control an individual to a set limit.... which is why the jails are always receiving return inmates (fine the parents there, too ?), so justly enforcing such a law reform will undoubtedly prove impossible.

 

but wait... TIT.... delete last statement, as they will find a thainese way to make it happen ?

 

 

[farcanell]

Oh.... and they have only just realized that road safety in Thailand is far from safe.... do they not know for themselves about the huge and ongoing carnage that is the hallmark of driving in this country.

 

thank goodness WHO have persevered with naming and shaming Thailand, and though it's taken a long long long... long time for the Thais to listen to outside concerns.... at least... finally... they have, in this instance anyway... opened their ears

 

that said... here comes another Thai failed initiative.

[FredNL]

25% of all driving accidents in Thailand are related to drunk driving.

 

Simple Thai math says: 100% - 25% = 75%

So 75% of all driving accidents in Thailand occur with drivers that aren't drunk. So sober drivers drive worse. 

[Shiver]

So you can go to sleep dry, possibly in a different province or the other end of the country, and wake up and find you're being charged for a crime you did not commit?

[NoshowJones]

10 hours ago, Xircal said:

Ridiculous idea. What the police need to do is get out on the roads during the time of day when most drunk driving accidents occur and run breathalyser checks on anyone driving too fast or erratically.

 

 

then confiscate the vehicles or motorbikes by auctioning them off, the proceeds going to government hospitals.

[NoshowJones]

48 minutes ago, gr8fldanielle said:

Drunk driving is not the main cause of motor vehicle deaths in Thailand in my opinion. Here's a quick fact: 14,059 reported road-deaths per year, 24,237 actual deaths says WHO, 70% on motorbikes, lack of traffic law enforcement.

The real killer and reason for so many deaths are the laws. These are laws that kill. For some reason, opposite of what those of us that were raised in western cultures, is defensive driving and to stay out of other vehicle's blind spot. The law in Thailand for motorcycles is that we are required to ride in the blind spot. Us riders are to stay to the left of the road, the blind spot for all other drivers, and compete with the taxis, buses, vendors, cars entering and exiting businesses and pedestrians. Not to mention buses on busy roads stop, load and unload blocking the 2nd and 3rd lanes rather than pull over to the left. But then again they may take out a motorcycle in doing that.

For what reason would it make sense to have motorcycle riders having to drive in the most dangerous section of the road, the far left? Another thing that slows down traffic and causes accidents is motorcycles are prohibited from using the flyovers. Wouldn't it make sense to encourage motorcyclists to stay out of the intersections if possible? What is the point of having dozens and dozens of motorcycles filtering to the front of the line at a traffic light when all the other cars have to wait while the motorcycles are all jockeying and cutting in front of other cars? It just slows things down as well as knock people off their bikes, its just crazy.

The expressway would be the safest place for motorcycles if they have the speed, and really all of them do. No stopping, no cars pulling out in front of you, very few buses, no songtaews and no taxis picking up customer and definitely no vendors. When I talk to the Thai people about laws that kill and what is the reason for them, the majority reply it's so the police can stop motorcycles and extort money. Safety is not the real issue in regards to Thai roads and their laws, it's about extorting money firstly.

Change the laws! Treat motorcycles like any other vehicle and let us ride in the safest parts of the roads here, usually the far right lane. Let us use the flyovers for our own safety. Most of all let's stop these dangerous road blocking police stops. There is nothing more frustrating than coming over a hill only to find cars illegally parked on the left, a truck that has been stopped by the police in the second lane, and a cop in the 3rd lane waving you over to stop. This is very intentional and highly resembles entrapment. Change the laws, stop the bloody deaths.

Excellent post, particularly the last paragraph.

[manarak]

it's a good thing if they punish families.

maybe peer pressure will help to get the drunks off the road or a non-drunk person will drive instead.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

It seems that they bring in a new law about drunk driving,making punishments more harder,and i am thankful for that.But then some f###ing fanatic who gets the bit between his teeth and wants to prove how clever he can be,and gain notoriety,starts shouting about how they can punish the families too.And every body says "yeah,yeah nattaporn,lets do that and really show how serious we are,that will teach em"

F###ing kids dressed as adults.

[lvr181]

14 hours ago, luudee said:

If they would just enforce the existing laws, they would not need new ones.

 

 

Western Farang thinking not encouraged, sorry. 

[elgordo38]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

In addition to stricter laws around what constitutes the act of drunk or impaired driving, the legislation seeks to extend punitive fines to the immediate family members of drunk driving offenders.

Stupid is as stupid does. WOW I live inside the family member offenders body and thus I am being held responsible for his/her actions? Sounds like a regression to black magic  voodoo and amulets to me. They have done some real ridiculous things here but this one takes the cake. 

[elgordo38]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

The legislation comes after a report by the World Health Organization found Thailand to have the second highest road accident fatality rate in the world, with more than a quarter of the Kingdom's deaths attributed to drunk driving.

Appeasing the WHO in such a ridiculous manner will only diminish Thailands standing in the international community. Sounds like a good joke to pass around the table after dinner and a glass of wine. I just hope they do not extend this punishment in case a family member murders somebody. Well back to watching the movie "The Purge" its a trilogy. 

[elgordo38]

When I first opened this thread I presumed that they were talking about how the arrest and conviction of a drunk driver would make it tough for their families to survive financially. I was completely blown away when reading the true content of the article. I must do some Google work now to see if another country in the known world was dumb enough to set a precedent for this type of punishment. I will start with North Korea. 

[kingstonkid]

The law needs to be changed.  As to charging the family I think that there is some merit in that if it is done right.

 

If you know your child is going out with friends and there is a chance of them driving common sense (not used here) says do not give them the keys.  With common sense not in large supply they have to make a law.

 

how does it get enforced.  If your son or daughter gets in an accident and causes damage then it is not just them that have to pay but mom and dad.

 

As to the laws let's use the Ontario Canada method.

 

If a bar/or a person let's a person that is over the limit drive away then they are legally responsible for anything that happens.

 

.08 you lose your license for 6 months.  If caught driving it is a criminal offence.

 

Insurance companies are notified and you must have car insurance in order to renew your car licence.  Insurance companies are great at culling the herd as it gets very expensive to drive.

 

 

 

 

[LivinginKata]

1 minute ago, kingstonkid said:

<snip>

Insurance companies are notified and you must have car insurance in order to renew your car licence.  Insurance companies are great at culling the herd as it gets very expensive to drive.

 

 

And how many Thai drivers even have proper insurance, or even a driving licence.

[kingstonkid]

Just now, LivinginKata said:

 

And how many Thai drivers even have proper insurance, or even a driving licence.

 

 

LOL that is the next stage LOL

 

[anon467367354]

maybe the charging the families issue is really about what should happen, making the parents responsible for their under aged children's behavior. Wouldn't that make sense?

[bark]

4 hours ago, Lupatria said:

How about the manufacturer and the 7-Eleven staff who sold the booze?

If the guy drink 10 beer inside the 7-11 ......

The Western Law is set up for people going to bars, and being served by server, or Bartender.

Both USA and Canada, have this law. If you get drunk in a bar, and kill someone with your car, they charge bar staff

with Manslaughter.

[bark]

42 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

And how many Thai drivers even have proper insurance, or even a driving licence.

26

[Jonmarleesco]

'... the World Health Organization found Thailand to have the second highest road accident fatality rate in the world, with more than a quarter of the Kingdom's deaths attributed to drunk driving.' Given the generally accepted view that few Thai drivers are even remotely competent, I would suggest drunk-driving only exacerbates the fundamental problem.