The expression: You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl....

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, Johpa said:

 

You are correct as long as you equate a messed up situation with being poor and having few, if any, options.  But I have known Thai women who worked in the sex industry for several years, some on the far more difficult "local" scene, who walked away and became nice people and good moms.  On the other hand I have met a few ex-pat wives who are introduced to me by their deluded Farang husbands as coming from a good family, even from Hi-So families, who are clearly former bar girls and who I feel are just nasty.  The reason the deluded Farang husband thinks wife comes from a good family is that the nice house and new car of the new father in-law was paid for by the former ex-pat boyfriend.  It is just as hard to get the bar stool out from underneath the Farang husband.  It works both ways.

 

And by the way, more Thai women fry their brains watching Thai soap operas on TV then by working the bars.

 

It is a bit odd to me how many males put so much emphasis on bar girls, or the sex industry, from my experience

 

Thai bar girls don't hold onto the emotional roller coaster of having sex like western woman do, although I am sure there are some fatal attraction types out there. Sex is sex, women are women, what is the difference between having sex with a bar girl, a western woman or a female of any type, and conforming them to how we would like them to be.

 

I suppose you could suggest that a BG is in a dirty business, (susceptible  to catching and spreading diseases) and is easily put down because she takes money for sex, say no more, she is tarnished, and don't dare try to have a relationship with her or she will burn you, e.g. you take take the BG out of the bar, but not the bar out of the girl, what a load of crap, this was obviously started by some twit who got burnt, probably didn't treat her right and support her, so that she could get a leg up, and perhaps because she was a a smooth operator, a bad BG who had been around for a while, he should have know better, often the many years younger attraction, love candidate fell straight into it, seriously, come on how many guys fall for those girls that they shouldn't and they know better, want to play with fire, well get burnt.  

 

Everybody uses their services, funny that. Western women on the other hand will go to bed with you after a few drinks, yes free, because they have the opportunity to work a normal job, get a better education and employment, and have a choice of wanting to sleep with someone for just sex, here in Thailand they still advertise the age they want their future employee to be, or no older than, I believe we refer to that back in Oz as discrimination,  so back to the western girl, free sex scenario, but we don't put her down or into a category like a BG.

 

What I am saying is what started off as a saying, should have referred to the entire species, because as man is concerned, if a woman open her legs for money, she is a "prostitute", if she (western women) sleeps with you the 1st night, she is a "slut" or a "mole" or whatever, gents you are falling behind the times, today there are friends with benefits, the word prostitute should be replaced with perhaps the term "working girl", sounds better in my opinion, as opposed to "prostitute" which originated from the dark ages.

[Steiner]

Why are there so many apologists always rolling out the 'they must be in a desperate situation to do that work / be in that life? 

Complete nonsense, everyone has a choice, they could get regular work, just too lazy.

I have met a few bg's that are married/dating western guys, non of them had a suck d**k or die story, it was a career choice for all of them.

[ChrisKC]

While we are on this subject let's ask ourselves the question why it is that Bargirls seem to be the ones that are of easy virtue and in the main are lambasted here. Without the men, there would be no bargirls! Usually, women don't talk much about the number of men they have been with. In Thailand, many bargirls in moments of weakness, admit they are ashamed at what they do.

 

Compare this with the men, who delight in bragging about all the bargirls they have been with but somehow they don't feel any level of shame while at the same time painting pictures of sinful women who are "lower" than them.

 

So, may we make the point from the bargirls' perspective? "You can take the farang out of the bar (girl) but you can't take the bar (girl) out of the farang".   

 

 

[rogeroc]

There is no reason for shame either way ! A bargirl may say she is ashamed just because she thinks that is what the person she is talking to wants to here. I am not sure too many men brag about bargirls either, more likely they are just reporting on enjoying their experience.

[YeahSiam]

19 hours ago, rogeroc said:

 

So who is the more intelligent girl, the one who earns 300 baht for a 10 hour day or the one who earns 1000 baht per day for 4 hours work per day including a few baht for drinks and a customer every other day that she can pick and choose !  I know many in reality do not have the pick and choose option but there are plenty here in CM who do. 

 

Put yourself in their shoes (it is the guy who demands the payment for sex) what would you do ?

 

How offensive of you to suggest bargirls are con artists, most are very straight about their fees and would not dream of stealing from you.

"Intelligent"??

You've got to be joking

The two girls you describe aren't differentiated by intelligence, they're differentiated by self-respect.

[rogeroc]

17 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

"Intelligent"??

You've got to be joking

The two girls you describe aren't differentiated by intelligence, they're differentiated by self-respect.

 

Suggesting a bargirl cannot have self respect indicates you have a closed mind. Do you also believe that their customers also have no self respect?

 

I have had 3 ex Western partners who have begged me for money when they don't need it and are not prepared to give any service for it. Now i think that is a better example of lack of self respect !

[jacko45k]

On 14/10/2016 at 2:32 PM, possum1931 said:

But how many guys who marry a bargirl will admit what his wife worked at before she met him?

Perhaps it is best to put that behind them, surely reminding the girl would not help the relationship.

The reality is likely that was what she worked at when he did meet her rather than before.

 

 

[YeahSiam]

I suspect many of those defending bargirls are either currently or have been married to one or more.

What's ironic though, is that these are the same guys who'll whine about how "Thai women" have an insatiable appetite for money and "stuff".

Yes, of course, they're human beings and as such, they're entitiled to fundamental respect but they do have a choice as to how they earn a living.

Bargirls choose to commoditise their genitals and once they grow accustomed to the higher relative income they can earn compared to a factory job, they regard those genitals as a moneyspinner for as long as they remain half attractive.

If a bargirl does meet and marry what she considers to be a good man, they're happy to not have to sell themselves but it's always in the back of their mind that if things go pear-shaped, they can always go back to it.

Marrying a bargirl is analogous to engaging a prostitute on a long-term employment contract. As long as she continues to benefit financially from the arrangement, there's no problem

 

[rogeroc]

6 hours ago, callaway said:

Only one post told it correctly. You all call them bar girls to make you feel better when marry them. They are prostitutes and you married a prostitute. A women who takes money from strangers for sex is a prostitute. But call them what you like if it makes you feel better.

 

 

You have made up your own definition of the word prostitute but the term can have a very wide use even extending beyond the normal sexual context. There are a lot of Thai girls working in bars (very often those getting a small salary) or Online who want to pick and choose their 'paying' customers. Are these girls prostitutes as well then or not because they are not taking money from strangers? What about a Thai girl who never asks for direct payment but either excepts it if offered or accepts indirect payment for example for a motorbike / house / being kept. Is she a prostitute?

[YeahSiam]

9 minutes ago, rogeroc said:

 

Suggesting a bargirl cannot have self respect indicates you have a closed mind. Do you also believe that their customers also have no self respect?

 

I have had 3 ex Western partners who have begged me for money when they don't need it and are not prepared to give any service for it. Now i think that is a better example of lack of self respect !

 

My mind is perfectly open; I'm just not naive.

Ask any bargirl if she'd be happy for her daughter to follow in her footsteps and 95% of them will look at you like you're on drugs. Why do you think that is?

As for the customers, I couldn't really say if they have self-respect or not but, if they marry or set up home with a bargirl, many will go to great lengths to keep her past vocation a closely-guarded secret from friends and family. Not just because of the stigma attached either but also because they're ashamed of the fact that they're paying someone to be with them.

Western women aren't the topic of discussion here, are they?

 

[rogeroc]

2 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

My mind is perfectly open; I'm just not naive.

Ask any bargirl if she'd be happy for her daughter to follow in her footsteps and 95% of them will look at you like you're on drugs. Why do you think that is?

As for the customers, I couldn't really say if they have self-respect or not but, if they marry or set up home with a bargirl, many will go to great lengths to keep her past vocation a closely-guarded secret from friends and family. Not just because of the stigma attached either but also because they're ashamed of the fact that they're paying someone to be with them.

Western women aren't the topic of discussion here, are they?

 

 

In response to sentence 2 if that is true i guess it will be partly because of the stigma which is still associated with prostituion or partly because they would ideally be hoping their daughter will have an alternative profession that also pays well. Perhaps also because as the OP has intimated they know that the bargirl lifestyle can be addictive.

 

Accept point that i had no need to specify Western women i should just have said that i have known a number of women who have had less self respect than many a Thai bargirl.

[Deepinthailand]

Yeahsiam said

many will go to great lengths to keep her past vocation a closely-guarded secret from friends and family. Not just because of the stigma attached either but also because they're ashamed of the fact that they're paying someone to be with them.

 

No not at all all my family knows never tried to keep it a secret there is no Stigma attached at all well no thats not true tv posters try to atach it but most see though the BS but there wI'll be some who do not tell people on here for fear of the crap they wI'll get by ill inormed fools.. So you honestly belive I pay my wife to be with me 5555 you really don't have any idea.

[YeahSiam]

2 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

many will go to great lengths to keep her past vocation a closely-guarded secret from friends and family. Not just because of the stigma attached either but also because they're ashamed of the fact that they're paying someone to be with them.

 

No not at all all my family knows never tried to keep it a secret there is no Stigma atraced at all well no thats not true tv pisters try to atach it but mostrich see though the BS. So you honestly belive I pay my wife to be with me 5555 you really don't have any idea.

 

Consider yourself an exception to the rule, then.

[Deepinthailand]

2 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

 

Consider yourself an exception to the rule, then.

No I will consider myself a happily married man. There are no rules only those put up by others

[oldhippy]

 You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl....

 

Logical reasoning is a wonderful thing.

 

To take a girl out of the bar, you have to be in bars yourself.

Now apply logic.

 

[Shiver]

My first GF wasn't a BG, but she did work in a farang restaurant (as cashier, no less! LOL).  I didn't ask the right questions at the time (like why does she want to work in a farang place?).  She never went with customers, and to my amazement I found out that she was a virgin).  People used to say all these cliche's and I would quietly laugh to myself 'but my girl *is* different'.  Well about a year and a half in, she'd finished uni and the family (well, the mother, father didn't know she was dating) told her it's time to lose me since I didn't have the finances to give them what they expected from her (via me).  She went out one day and that's the last time I saw her in that capacity.  I rang the phone once or twice per day (I'm not a 70 calls per hour control freak, if she sees a missed call she knows what to do), and she finally answered and said in a purposefully weak and wet way "I think you should find a new girlfriend" - and that was it.  Saw her one more time when the family truck arrived  to pick up her things, and she asked for some furniture too.  I didn't help or deny them as my mind was elsewhere in a world of pain.

Some hold me later that her parents had set her up with a more monied SE Asian foreigner who I knew had been eyeing her for a long time, but I never said anything.  She didn't want to leave, but the click of the fingers from family instantly put a halt to everything.  Her task it seems was to make babies, secure land locally and get a house on it.  I think she managed all that, but I suspect the family told her to dump him now that his purpose was complete. So from leaving me to getting married was 6 weeks. 9 months later produce a baby, then get the other stuff.  I do wonder if the baby was/is being used for leverage.

So, maybe it's not always about money and being in BG, but I spent the next couple of years alone until the feelings started to die off (yeah I paid for services from a couple of dozen girls in the meantime, but it just didn't work for feeling better).  I swore next time I would go for an orphan, and I got that - unbelievably.  I met the remaining family and I was vetting them.  They're great, although now we're down to just one Grandpa who doesn't need money to make his life happy.  Happiness to him is seeing the rest of the family do good.

2.5+ years later, of not being drained by GF#1 who was quite materialistic allowed me room to save and start a successful business, so have a bit of independently earned cash for a rainy day.  I'll still go for more, but not in a working capacity in this country, everything other than a smallish amount of baht here is elsewhere in the world and thoroughly encrypted, distributed amongst various friends and family with a piece of the puzzle each which will kick into action automatically on my death.  So I don't need to consider people holding a knife to my throat to extort it or steal gold or anything valuable.  I couldn't implement that immediately even if I completely folded.

So BG's are just one example, but not the only one where it is largely true but not exclusively so.

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, YeahSiam said:

 

If a bargirl does meet and marry what she considers to be a good man, they're happy to not have to sell themselves but it's always in the back of their mind that if things go pear-shaped, they can always go back to it.

 

 

 

 

   The guy will also know that as well, and the fact can be used for her to dominate the relationship and always get her own way . 

  And the fact that they can go and find another instant boyfreind will make them more inclined to leave , more so than a woman who wouldnt work in a bar and will not find another instant boyfreind .

    That situation can be the ruin of relationships 

I suppose that it also applies to the guys, they know that they can just go and put her back in the bar and get someone else .

   Which doesnt lead to a stable relationship with both people knowing that they can walk out anytime and find someone new immeaditaly

[brewsterbudgen]

It's a clichè; nothing more than that.

[ChrisKC]

4 hours ago, rogeroc said:

There is no reason for shame either way ! A bargirl may say she is ashamed just because she thinks that is what the person she is talking to wants to here. I am not sure too many men brag about bargirls either, more likely they are just reporting on enjoying their experience.

There is every reason for Thai girls to feel shame. Thai society, and those people who sit astride high horses, whilst accepting readily that men's (even married men) desires are OK to be met by "women of the night", openly denounce such women for doing so! Another paradox of Thai culture.

 

If you read exactly what I wrote you would observe that shame is admitted in moments of weakness, that is when they are talking quietly and in confidence in someone they trust - like me! I have lived a long time in Britain and in Thailand and my experience of discussions with men and much that I have read indicates very strongly that many of them DO brag about their numerous conquests.

Conquests and joyful experiences are not so commonly voiced by women, anywhere, especially to strangers and on these forums.

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

There is every reason for Thai girls to feel shame. Thai society, and those people who sit astride high horses, whilst accepting readily that men's (even married men) desires are OK to be met by "women of the night", openly denounce such women for doing so! Another paradox of Thai culture.

 

If you read exactly what I wrote you would observe that shame is admitted in moments of weakness, that is when they are talking quietly and in confidence in someone they trust - like me! I have lived a long time in Britain and in Thailand and my experience of discussions with men and much that I have read indicates very strongly that many of them DO brag about their numerous conquests.

Conquests and joyful experiences are not so commonly voiced by women, anywhere, especially to strangers and on these forums.

Conquests?

Paying for sex is a conquest?

Slip of the tongue?

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

There is every reason for Thai girls to feel shame.

 

   Many of the girls do not feel any shame at all .

Many are even quite proud to be independent working girls earning good money .

They regard customers as boyfreinds, and they are quite pleased with themselves for going out and finding a nice boyfreind (Even if is just untill the next day")

[ChrisKC]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

Conquests?

Paying for sex is a conquest?

Slip of the tongue?

No! not a slip of the tongue - a general observation not related to punter and bargirl. This thread is about bargirls, yes, some men do brag about the number of bargirls they have been with. As well, other men who tell about their "conquests': winning the girl for sex, against the perceived odds.

[ChrisKC]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   Many of the girls do not feel any shame at all .

Many are even quite proud to be independent working girls earning good money .

They regard customers as boyfreinds, and they are quite pleased with themselves for going out and finding a nice boyfreind (Even if is just untill the next day")

You are right, on all that you said, some don't feel shame but I am not talking about them. I am talking about those who do. It doesn't matter what either of us says on this; it will apply to some and not others!

[sanemax]

18 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

and my experience of discussions with men and much that I have read indicates very strongly that many of them DO brag about their numerous conquests.

.

 

  I would say that some men brag about having sex with females , some, most do not .

Maybe its different with a group of lads all having a beer together .

If you ask some men, some will exaggerate and boast , but generally men will not brag and about having sex with females .

    Some may do , but its usually bravado and sometimes its gay men trying to portray themselves as being straight 

[ChrisKC]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

  I would say that some men brag about having sex with females , some, most do not .

Maybe its different with a group of lads all having a beer together .

If you ask some men, some will exaggerate and boast , but generally men will not brag and about having sex with females .

    Some may do , but its usually bravado and sometimes its gay men trying to portray themselves as being straight 

You are right, but my "many" should not be construed as "most" because that isn't what I wrote or meant. Usually, the men I am talking about don't give this information as an answer to a question; they are more likely to offer it up in the general foray of "men talk" down the Pub!

[oldhippy]

24 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

You are right, but my "many" should not be construed as "most" because that isn't what I wrote or meant. Usually, the men I am talking about don't give this information as an answer to a question; they are more likely to offer it up in the general foray of "men talk" down the Pub!

I'm so glad that I was not born as a woman, I would never be able to deal with men, particularly most men on TV forum.

Also, I do not understand why women not all become lesbians. Men? Yak!

                                                             >>>> moved to the worst joke ever forum <<<<

 

 

[lungnorm]

Kwasaki, Yes I have known more than 50 maybe 150 Thai hookers and they were all the same screwed in the head the longer they had been in the game the more screwed in the head they were. I will admit some did get married and became semi decent wives but most still carried on screwing all and sundry to their advantage.

[oldhippy]

11 minutes ago, lungnorm said:

Kwasaki, Yes I have known more than 50 maybe 150 Thai hookers and they were all the same screwed in the head the longer they had been in the game the more screwed in the head they were. I will admit some did get married and became semi decent wives but most still carried on screwing all and sundry to their advantage.

Known? As in Been With? In the biblical sense of the word?

Wink wink nudge nudge.

If so, thank you for illustrating my above post.

[lungnorm]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

Known? As in Been With? In the biblical sense of the word?

Wink wink nudge nudge.

If so, thank you for illustrating my above post.

Known in this sense I was a security guard in numerous brothels in Australia for a couple of years. Part of my job was to ferry the girls to outcalls then sometimes drive them home to their husbands who mostly knew what they were up to.

[smotherb]

22 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Really?   Surely you jest?  That sounds more like horses & not drinking water.  

I have friends married to Bar girls and friends married to girls met on Thai dating sites.   One ex BG married to a friend is exemplary and 100% trustworthy.  There is good & bad in all types but I personally subscribe to the theory that the longer they are in the life, the more damaged they become.  It is a cruel hard life & they live off their wits & knife each other in the back all the time. They see the very worst of men (almost) all the time and are lied to so much they tend to lose their grip on reality.  I have known heaps and lived well inside the circle for over 12 years.  My ex flat mate used to go round the parlours (in a western country)and write all the "please send me money, Darkling" yahoo chats for them.

Gee, you think?  Of course it was said in jest.  In my almost 50 years in Southeast Asia, I have known many bar girls married to and in relationships with foreigners.  The majority of the foreigners were little more than long-term customers; nonetheless, many of the relationships survive. The women always seemed to monetary needs; family members in debt; gambling debts, high maintenance demands, and brothers hanging about. However, I have seen exceptions, but they are few. One is worth mentioning. She worked in a "truck wash" in Vietnam. Suffice to say truckloads of GIs would stop by for short-times. This girl was very attractive; thus, popular; guys would stand in line for their turn with her. I introduced a friend of mine to her, he was enamored; he waited in line. They married, against my advice, but it wasn't my decision. They were married almost 40 years before his death; she was a wonderful wife and mother, no one could have touched her. At his funeral, she asked me to sit next to her. She squeezed my hand and whispered, "I always loved you . . ."  I was dumbfounded, right here at her husband's funeral. Then she added, " . . . because you knew where I came from and never told anyone."  I felt so ashamed of my initial reaction; she was a good girl and always was, no matter where she worked.