Brexit hits speed bump as court rules lawmakers must get say

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Only 37% of the electorate voted to leave the EU; the 28% who did not vote were, presumably, expecting a comfortable win for Remain or were not fussed either way. Don't be fooled into thinking that the Brexiters represent the largest swathe of the country - clearly they are a minority.

 

  Well you would say that,as a supporter of the SNP. However Alex Neil  MSP and until recently a member of Sturgeons government,along with other members of the SNP do not agree with you. It would seem that there is division throughout the land,but the main fact remains,the majority voted to escape this dictatorial and corrupt so called Union.

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

  Well you would say that,as a supporter of the SNP. However Alex Neil  MSP and until recently a member of Sturgeons government,along with other members of the SNP do not agree with you. It would seem that there is division throughout the land,but the main fact remains,the majority voted to escape this dictatorial and corrupt so called Union.

 

Do you think there is a majority today? How about when Parliament votes?

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

The negotiations will be to reach a mutually agreed deal for the UK to leave the EU.

 

 

 

May wants what she considers to be the best deal for the UK; Junkers, or whoever, will want the best deal for the EU. Whilst the two may not be mutually exclusive, there will be differences and revealing one's hand and strategy before the negotiations have even begun would be utterly foolhardy. Were she do that she may as well simply say to the EU "Tell us what your terms are and we'll accept them!" In other words; unconditional surrender.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair play to you 7by7.

 

I thought hell would freeze over before we agreed on anything.

 

You proved me wrong by nailing this 100%

[SgtRock]

It would appear that some are creaming their panties over nothing.

 

Quote

Theresa May has reassured Angela Merkel and Jean-Claude Juncker that she is determined to stick to her timetable of triggering article 50 to leave the EU by the end of March, despite a high court judgment that could delay her plans.

 

The prime minister’s spokesman said that in phone calls this morning, she had confirmed to the German chancellor and European commission president respectively that the government would appeal against the judgment to the supreme court, and still expected to be able to meet her self-imposed deadline.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/04/brexit-may-tells-merkel-and-juncker-timetable-remains-the-same

 

A few months delay to your stated deadline may not go amiss either. It might be a good plan to hold back slightly and see how things develop in France and Germany.

[Dumbastheycome]

If the  results  of a referendum on any question of  opinion  were to  be considered  a  binding result then what the  hell  does a country  need a parliamentary process  for??? Especially when the specific  agenda behind a populist  appeal question  does  not  full outline the ramifications. Or the  agenda !

 

[mommysboy]

12 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

If the  results  of a referendum on any question of  opinion  were to  be considered  a  binding result then what the  hell  does a country  need a parliamentary process  for??? Especially when the specific  agenda behind a populist  appeal question  does  not  full outline the ramifications. Or the  agenda !

 

 

I think this is a good posting. The win gave a mandate to leave the EU, it offered nothing else by way of guidance.  If MP's don't to the tricky job, then who else?

[cumgranosalum]

An important message from the PM

 

 

 

 

 

Such a mess!

[Basil B]

Sadly this is going end up with parliament debating every stage, we would be better having negotiators who do not have their hands tied behind their backs and having to negotiate with EU bureaucrats who know their game plan...

 

My thoughts on this May should talk to Corbyn with a view to drawing up a simple piece of legislation that will give the PM the right to move article 50 within say 12 months, and appoint an all party negotiation team with Parliament voting on a final agreement, take it or leave it... 

 

Or or Parliament should only vote on anything the EU Parliament votes on...

[mommysboy]

28 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Sadly this is going end up with parliament debating every stage, we would be better having negotiators who do not have their hands tied behind their backs and having to negotiate with EU bureaucrats who know their game plan...

 

My thoughts on this May should talk to Corbyn with a view to drawing up a simple piece of legislation that will give the PM the right to move article 50 within say 12 months, and appoint an all party negotiation team with Parliament voting on a final agreement, take it or leave it... 

 

Or or Parliament should only vote on anything the EU Parliament votes on...

 

Why?  It's really up to the Government to come up with a cogent plan, one that is practicable, and possible. That's the way it's always been.  If they can't, well, what does that say?

[Basil B]

 

Should be interesting... 650 strong British negotiating team that could not even agree with themselves.

[cumgranosalum]

This makes good listening - find out if you are a "banana".........

 

"crucial part of today’s ruling was the recognition that parliamentary sovereignty must be upheld and mocked MPs for seemingly not understanding the premise on which the British political system is built. "

 

Prime Minister Theresa May does not have the right to use the Royal Prerogative to involve Article 50 without involving parliament

[Xircal]

9 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

it could be back to the polls again. I wonder how the UK will vote this time?at least the scaremongers won't be able to frighten  the public this time around of how the sky will fall in if they leave the EU

 

Prospect of early general election increases after High Court rules Government cannot trigger Article 50 without parliamentary approval

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/03/high-court-to-rule-on-brexit-legal-battle-and-theresa-mays-decis/

 

There's not much to choose between the parties since Labour is also in favour of Brexit. So whoever you vote for you'll still be heading for that sign which says (BR)EXIT above the door.

[RuamRudy]

 
  Well you would say that,as a supporter of the SNP. However Alex Neil  MSP and until recently a member of Sturgeons government,along with other members of the SNP do not agree with you. It would seem that there is division throughout the land,but the main fact remains,the majority voted to escape this dictatorial and corrupt so called Union.

What is there to agree or disagree with? I am not stating opinion but fact - only 37% of the UK electorate expressed a desire to leave the EU, meaning that the majority of UK voters did not vote to leave.

[SgtRock]

19 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

What is there to agree or disagree with? I am not stating opinion but fact - only 37% of the UK electorate expressed a desire to leave the EU, meaning that the majority of UK voters did not vote to leave.

 

 

RR

 

The fact that only 37% of the electorate voted to leave means that even less than 37% voted to remain.

 

Turn your ire towards those that did not vote, for whatever reason. Those that did not vote will definately have changed the 51.9% out v 48.1 in.

 

What we do not know is what % would have changed drastically.

 

Its over. Brexit will happen. May has already informed the closet head of the EU Merkel, along with the rest of the cretins at HQ Brussels.

 

Quote

Theresa May has reassured Angela Merkel and Jean-Claude Juncker that she is determined to stick to her timetable of triggering article 50 to leave the EU by the end of March, despite a high court judgment that could delay her plans.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/04/brexit-may-tells-merkel-and-juncker-timetable-remains-the-same

 

[RuamRudy]

31 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

Its over. Brexit will happen. May has already informed the closet head of the EU Merkel, along with the rest of the cretins at HQ Brussels.

 

 

I don't disagree at all - but this thread is filled with Brexiter indignation at what they perceive as a democratic outrage at the High Court ruling, whereas I am merely pointing out that Brexit does not have the popular mandate that so many claim it has. 

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, stag4 said:

Nothing advisory about it.

Cameron stated on more than one occasion "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide."

Parliament voted unanimously to hold a referendum and the majority of the People voted to leave. Democracy in action!

It was also made clear by many politicians prior to the referendum that the vote was to remain or leave including the single market.

The will of the people needs to be implemented and not frustrated at every turn by the establishment and traitorous politicians.

 

The referendum was fundamentally flawed and should be ignored. The structure flew in the face of previous pledges by the government.

The result was not the will of the people as we keep hearing, it was the will of the English people and in this 'democratic' union the largest sector will always prevail and xxxxx to everyone else.

A democratic referendum would have required a majority in all four nations.

To compound the fiasco the PM tried to exceed her authority and circumvent due process and it is quite right that parliament should approve the way forward.

 

It should be remembered that people do not always have the right answer, history has shown that misleading rhetoric has a lot to answer for.

[jpinx]

Last general election had a turnout of about 66% .  The EU referendum had a turnout of about 72%.  Which was more representative ?

[SgtRock]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The referendum was fundamentally flawed and should be ignored. The structure flew in the face of previous pledges by the government.

The result was not the will of the people as we keep hearing, it was the will of the English people and in this 'democratic' union the largest sector will always prevail and xxxxx to everyone else.

A democratic referendum would have required a majority in all four nations.

To compound the fiasco the PM tried to exceed her authority and circumvent due process and it is quite right that parliament should approve the way forward.

 

It should be remembered that people do not always have the right answer, history has shown that misleading rhetoric has a lot to answer for.

 

Quote

The result was not the will of the people as we keep hearing, it was the will of the English people and in this 'democratic' union the largest sector will always prevail and xxxxx to everyone else.

 

This is a great line sandyf. This is exactly why NO UNION has ever stood the test of time and they ALL fail eventually. You should check out the history you espouse.

 

You will also be aware that the 3 regional assemblies / Parliaments are subservient to the UK Parliament. So the 4 Nations conundrum will never come into the equation.

 

It was a Nationwide Referendum not 4 separate Referendums.

 

Quote

The result was not the will of the people as we keep hearing,

 

That may or may not be true and is open to speculation. However, it was certainly the will of the majority who dragged their @rses to a polling station rather than being too lazy, sitting on their fat @rses watching Jeremy Kyle or some other car crash TV or whatever other excuse that they can come up with for not voting.

[jpinx]

28 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The referendum was fundamentally flawed and should be ignored. The structure flew in the face of previous pledges by the government.

The result was not the will of the people as we keep hearing, it was the will of the English people and in this 'democratic' union the largest sector will always prevail and xxxxx to everyone else.

A democratic referendum would have required a majority in all four nations.

To compound the fiasco the PM tried to exceed her authority and circumvent due process and it is quite right that parliament should approve the way forward.

 

It should be remembered that people do not always have the right answer, history has shown that misleading rhetoric has a lot to answer for.

 

All election processes have flaws, but it is the least of all evils when trying to form an acceptable consensus.  The Scots fell into the same trap as Cameron, NI and lots of others -- possibly including a lot of those people who didn't vote -- in expecting a certain win for Remaining.  As has been proven time and again, anyone who doesn't prepare for both results is a political fool.  The Scots voted to stay in UK.  The UK voted to leave EU.  and so the wheel turns.

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

This makes good listening - find out if you are a "banana".........

 

"crucial part of today’s ruling was the recognition that parliamentary sovereignty must be upheld and mocked MPs for seemingly not understanding the premise on which the British political system is built. "

 

Prime Minister Theresa May does not have the right to use the Royal Prerogative to involve Article 50 without involving parliament

 

Great stuff. Everyone should listen to this!

[SaintLouisBlues]

50 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

This is exactly why NO UNION has ever stood the test of time and they ALL fail eventually.

Look at the USA if you doubt this golden rule. France too. And don't forget Germany has only been a single country for the past 150 years. And Italy while I come to think of it.  And then there's Spain. But remember - "NO UNION has ever stood the test of time and they ALL fail eventually"

[SgtRock]

5 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Look at the USA if you doubt this golden rule. France too. And don't forget Germany has only been a single country for the past 150 years. And Italy while I come to think of it.  And then there's Spain. But remember - "NO UNION has ever stood the test of time and they ALL fail eventually"

 

How old is the USA ? Give it time.

 

I seem to recall from memory that a few States have already made noises about succession, perhaps you could jog my memory.

 

British Empire

French Empire

Belgian Empire

Spanish Empire

Roman Empire

Ottoman Empire

 

To name just a few

 

More recently:

 

USSR

Yugoslavia

Scottish Independence Referendum

UK post Brexit TBC

 

And keep a careful eye on the EU and in particular the EZ. It could very well be a major eye opener in the very near future. Especially if Trump wins and does what he has threatened, to withdraw from NATO.

[Mosha]

 
As it should be - we live in a parliamentary democracy, not the Big Brother house. The Brexiters were complaining so ferociously that the EU was some unelected body making decisions about the future of the UK; well now you have your wish - an elected body getting to decide the future of the UK.

Then those MPs who vote remain in a constituency that voted out, will hopefully be out of a job at the next election.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[SaintLouisBlues]

5 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

I seem to recall from memory that a few States have already made noises about succession, perhaps you could jog my memory.

"Succession"?

[jpinx]

no union has withstood the test of time?   How long do we have to wait ?? 

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, Mosha said:

Then those MPs who vote remain in a constituency that voted out, will hopefully be out of a job at the next election.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk
 

 

Well, that is how our form of democracy is supposed to work.

 

BUT, are you sure that there is still a majority wanting to leave? At the time of the next election?

 

I think that there could well be an election next year. Maybe the UKIP-Lite Tory party will win as a direct result of the Corbyn effect......

 

 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

The referendum was fundamentally flawed and should be ignored. The structure flew in the face of previous pledges by the government.

The result was not the will of the people as we keep hearing, it was the will of the English people and in this 'democratic' union the largest sector will always prevail and xxxxx to everyone else.

A democratic referendum would have required a majority in all four nations.

To compound the fiasco the PM tried to exceed her authority and circumvent due process and it is quite right that parliament should approve the way forward.

 

It should be remembered that people do not always have the right answer, history has shown that misleading rhetoric has a lot to answer for.

 

  We are the U.K.  There is no such countries as England, Nth Ireland,Scotland and Wales.

  Are you saying that if 100% of the electorate in England, Nth Ireland and Wales had voted to exit this corrupt and undemocratic so called Union, and 51% of the electorate in Scotland wanted to remain, then that very small % of the total electorate would have prevailed. If so apply for a job as a high court judge.

[jpinx]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

 

How old is the USA ? Give it time.

 

I seem to recall from memory that a few States have already made noises about succession, perhaps you could jog my memory.

 

British Empire

French Empire

Belgian Empire

Spanish Empire

Roman Empire

Ottoman Empire

 

To name just a few

 

More recently:

 

USSR

Yugoslavia

Scottish Independence Referendum

UK post Brexit TBC

 

And keep a careful eye on the EU and in particular the EZ. It could very well be a major eye opener in the very near future. Especially if Trump wins and does what he has threatened, to withdraw from NATO.

 

OK -- I'll rise to it -- for fun

 

British Empire -- subsequently Commonwealth - based on Slavery and pillaging conquered lands - never a lasting policy.

French Empire - based on arrogance and slavery, also pillaging the resources the brits missed.

Belgian Empire - Ermmm - picked over the places the Brits and Frenchies had missed.

Spanish Empire - Gold diggers

Roman Empire - they needed places to practice building roads.

Ottoman Empire - some cool art and sciences, but ultimately too much juice in the hookah

 

To name just a few

 

More recently:

 

USSR - wealth-grabbing communism proved to be more moron than oxy

Yugoslavia - slavic tribal war gone haywire

Scottish Independence Referendum - Scottish tribal march mis-directed.

UK post Brexit TBC -- it'll split into it's separate components but remain under the crown. 

 

you missed some good ones --

Inca Empire -- got their asses kicked by the Spanish Empire (see above)

Chinese empire -- got their asses in a sling by the Brits mostly.

Dutch Empire -- shopkeepers don't do well abroad -- SA was the exception, but that failed in the face of the Brits too.

 

Average longevity of an Empire? --  about 3 generations -- after that the kids ask too many questions about why they have to pay for this and that away "over there".

 

Most common reason for breakup?  Some magic recipe of huge egos in charge mixed with sex-drugs and rock'n'roll

 

What's the future for the EU? -- there isn't one -- it's nothing - not a sovereign state, not an Empire, not a federation, not a nation, not a commonwealth,

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, Mosha said:

Then those MPs who vote remain in a constituency that voted out, will hopefully be out of a job at the next election.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk
 

 

You would think,that at least those M.P's who represent a constituency,in which the majority voted for Brixit would be morally bound to also vote Brixit. But when was the last person with moral to enter Westminster?

  And today's date is.

[SgtRock]

8 minutes ago, jpinx said:

What's the future for the EU? -- there isn't one

 

Agreed