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Brexit hits speed bump as court rules lawmakers must get say


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1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 

You would think,that at least those M.P's who represent a constituency,in which the majority voted for Brixit would be morally bound to also vote Brixit. But when was the last person with moral to enter Westminster?

  And today's date is.

image.jpeg

 

HMMM.....

"The plan was to blow up the House of Lords during the State Opening of England's Parliament on 5 November 1605, as the prelude to a popular revolt in the Midlands during which James's nine-year-old daughter, Princess Elizabeth, was to be installed as the Catholic head of state." - wiki

 

in essence this was a plan to destroy parliamentary sovereignty and bring England in line with Europe under the power of Rome. ring any bells?

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Faced with the large fall in sterling and news of possible pullouts by major companies the Brexiteers seem to be relying on their prophecy of the imminent collapse of the EU as justification for leaving.' Don't  worry, we won't be alone for long.'

Well we very  well might be. Outside any major trading bloc and sinking into economic insignificance day by day.   

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3 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:
3 hours ago, SgtRock said:

I seem to recall from memory that a few States have already made noises about succession, perhaps you could jog my memory.

"Succession"?

 

Grouse likes this

 

Grouse, Grouse, StLouisBlues is new to these discussions, but he will learn. You should know better, having been admonished by the mods several times over this.

 

It's not as though your (or my or anyone else's) spelling is perfect. I recently had a discussion with you where you misspelled a word in several consecutive posts. I kept spelling the word correctly in my replies, rather than ridicule you, but you just simply failed to notice.

 

You really need to grow up over this. I knew what SgtRock meant, as, I'm sure, did most others.

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25 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

I knew what SgtRock meant, as, I'm sure, did most others.

Succession and secession are two utterly different concepts. If you want to communicate effectively, use the correct word so that people don't have to guess. Equally, someone using the incorrect term might lead people to infer a certain level of ...

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Well, that is how our form of democracy is supposed to work.
 
BUT, are you sure that there is still a majority wanting to leave? At the time of the next election?
 
I think that there could well be an election next year. Maybe the UKIP-Lite Tory party will win as a direct result of the Corbyn effect......
 
 


An election could be very interesting as it could very well end up as a single issue election whereby people would vote based on the stance that each party took with regards to the EU which they would need to clearly lay out in a manifesto.

The stance Corbyn/Labour take would be crucial as, should they support some form of brexit, they could possibly cause a split of voters between the Tories, UKIP (if they survive that long) and Labour for those wanting to leave the EU leaving the door wide open for the Lib Dems to campaign on a pro-EU remain platform - who knows, this time next year we could have Lib Dem/SNP coalition government with Nicola Sturgeon as deputy PM!
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52 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Grouse, Grouse, StLouisBlues is new to these discussions, but he will learn. You should know better, having been admonished by the mods several times over this.

 

It's not as though your (or my or anyone else's) spelling is perfect. I recently had a discussion with you where you misspelled a word in several consecutive posts. I kept spelling the word correctly in my replies, rather than ridicule you, but you just simply failed to notice.

 

You really need to grow up over this. I knew what SgtRock meant, as, I'm sure, did most others.

 

It was not a spelling error nor a typo. It was a malapropism as I am sure you are aware. And an amusing one at that. I do not criticise people for having a poor grasp of the English language as that would be impolite :smile:

 

It is ironic that you should pick on this matter. Earlier this year, Rock found so many typos by me that I appointed him my official spell checker!

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7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

It was not a spelling error nor a typo. It was a malapropism as I am sure you are aware. And an amusing one at that. I do not criticise people for having a poor grasp of the English language as that would be impolite :smile:

 

It is ironic that you should pick on this matter. Earlier this year, Rock found so many typos by me that I appointed him my official spell checker!

 

Don't try to wriggle out of it. You have been repeatedly warned by the mods over this. Just look at your ongoing forum behaviour toward Laughing Gravy, which is nothing more than bullying.

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39 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Succession and secession are two utterly different concepts. If you want to communicate effectively, use the correct word so that people don't have to guess. Equally, someone using the incorrect term might lead people to infer a certain level of ...

 

Rubbish. It was perfectly clear, in the context it was used, what SgtRock meant, and the fact that you flagged up the mistake shows that it was also perfectly clear to you. You should have a chat with the mods about this. They will put you straight. I assume you wanted to use the word 'stupidity' or some such. As though spelling and grammar skills equate to intelligence! If there's anything worse than a spelling and grammar nazi, it's one that thinks this makes them superior.

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9 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Don't try to wriggle out of it. You have been repeatedly warned by the mods over this. Just look at your ongoing forum behaviour toward Laughing Gravy, which is nothing more than bullying.

 

Ill have you know, sir, that I have been very kind to Gravy......

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8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Reasonable article EXCEPT for the hard/soft brexit analysis which is wrong, and not just wrong, but wrong due to bias.

 

A great deal of the current mess is because of our MSM.....

 

I, for one, would welcome a general election........

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50 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

It was not a spelling error nor a typo. It was a malapropism as I am sure you are aware. And an amusing one at that. I do not criticise people for having a poor grasp of the English language as that would be impolite :smile:

 

It is ironic that you should pick on this matter. Earlier this year, Rock found so many typos by me that I appointed him my official spell checker!

doubt if Rock would work for me - I to use like words of more than 4 letters!

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1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

Reasonable article EXCEPT for the hard/soft brexit analysis which is wrong, and not just wrong, but wrong due to bias.

 

A great deal of the current mess is because of our MSM.....

 

I, for one, would welcome a general election........

 

I was expecting one fairly quickly after the referendum. Labour were in total disarray, and would have been obliterated (which probably wouldn't be a bad thing in the long term, as it would have cleared out the Blairite yuppie rabble that have infested the parliamentary party). But it seems the Tories weren't in much better shape, themselves.

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2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I was expecting one fairly quickly after the referendum. Labour were in total disarray, and would have been obliterated (which probably wouldn't be a bad thing in the long term, as it would have cleared out the Blairite yuppie rabble that have infested the parliamentary party). But it seems the Tories weren't in much better shape, themselves.

 

Yes, I quite agree!

 

An election now would be quite an event! Maybe Tory/UKIP coalition v  LIB/SNP coalition. Can't see Labour getting anywhere...

 

Bizarre situation indeed!

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6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I was expecting one fairly quickly after the referendum. Labour were in total disarray, and would have been obliterated (which probably wouldn't be a bad thing in the long term, as it would have cleared out the Blairite yuppie rabble that have infested the parliamentary party). But it seems the Tories weren't in much better shape, themselves.

Agree entirely about the Blairite faction needing to be cleared out of the Labour party as at the moment the Labour party and Conservative party are pretty much indistinguishable but - yet again :lol: - I'm not sure whether or not a General Election at this point would be a good idea when all the parties are in disarray.

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55 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Agree entirely about the Blairite faction needing to be cleared out of the Labour party as at the moment the Labour party and Conservative party are pretty much indistinguishable but - yet again :lol: - I'm not sure whether or not a General Election at this point would be a good idea when all the parties are in disarray.

 

Hmm

 

I reckon the right wing of the Torys and UKIP are one group

 

The left wing Torys, the right wing of Labour, Lib Dems and SNP are the other group

 

A Corbyn vote is a wasted vote. Yes renationalise the railways and utilities but the rest is back to Foot! ( a pun on Front for the deaf!)

 

Interesting times indeed!

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1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

I was expecting one fairly quickly after the referendum. Labour were in total disarray, and would have been obliterated (which probably wouldn't be a bad thing in the long term, as it would have cleared out the Blairite yuppie rabble that have infested the parliamentary party). But it seems the Tories weren't in much better shape, themselves.

 

So you don't rate Hillary Benn? What about his dad?

 

BTW, UK boomed under Blair ?

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9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Hmm

 

I reckon the right wing of the Torys and UKIP are one group

 

The left wing Torys, the right wing of Labour, Lib Dems and SNP are the other group

 

A Corbyn vote is a wasted vote. Yes renationalise the railways and utilities but the rest is back to Foot! ( a pun on Front for the deaf!)

 

Interesting times indeed!

I'm inclined to agree with the first three paras. - which means that there is no party anymore (and hasn't been for a long time) that cares about the poor (or even average) person.

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10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

So you don't rate Hillary Benn? What about his dad?

 

BTW, UK economy boomed under Blair ?

To a certain extent yes - dependent on where you were on the 'food chain'.

 

I could well be wrong about this as I'm relying on memory (never a good idea in my case!), but I think he started the whole 'pay those at the top more, and those at the bottom less' chain.

 

Edit - Thinking about it I'm wrong - it was Thatcher.  Blair just continued the policy.

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13 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

 

This is a great line sandyf. This is exactly why NO UNION has ever stood the test of time and they ALL fail eventually. You should check out the history you espouse.

 

An unusual touch of reality, the brexiteers have certainly taken the 'United' out of the Kingdom.

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16 hours ago, sandyf said:

The referendum was fundamentally flawed and should be ignored. The structure flew in the face of previous pledges by the government.

The result was not the will of the people as we keep hearing, it was the will of the English people and in this 'democratic' union the largest sector will always prevail and xxxxx to everyone else.

A democratic referendum would have required a majority in all four nations.

To compound the fiasco the PM tried to exceed her authority and circumvent due process and it is quite right that parliament should approve the way forward.

 

It should be remembered that people do not always have the right answer, history has shown that misleading rhetoric has a lot to answer for.

 The Conservative manifesto promised a referendum on EU membership with a straight remain or leave question; and they delivered on that pledge.

referendum
ˌrɛfəˈrɛndəm/  
noun
noun: referendum; plural noun: referenda; plural noun: referendums
  1. a general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision

 

Which is exactly what this was. A vote by the electorate of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Note that in the name of our nation 'Great Britain and Northern Ireland' are geographical locations, not political entities. There is, after all, no political entity named Great Britain!

 

As well as England voting to leave, so did Wales.

 

But this was a vote by the whole of the UK, not individual parts of it. As a whole the electorate voted to leave.

 

You seem to be saying that those parts of the UK which voted to remain should not be dictated to by the majority who voted to leave.

 

I assume you include London in that as London voted to remain. To get even more local, as a whole the South East, where I live, voted to leave, the constituency where I live voted to remain. I, as an individual, voted to remain.

 

Am I being dictated to by the majority who disagree with me and voted accordingly? Yes; that is how democracy works!

 

As I said previously, whilst I believe that Parliament should approve the final agreement between the UK and the EU, I see no need for any agreement by Parliament to authorise the start of negotiations. The referendum result gave the government the mandate for that.

 

I am aware that the High Court, and therefore the law, says otherwise; but as Mr Bumble said in Oliver Twist: ""If the law supposes that, the law is a ass—a idiot."

 

 

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"I want my country back"

Yes, I'd like to go back to the place it was before 23rd June. More civilised and democratic.

We seem to be lurching to some kind of mob-rule with  certain newspapers doing all they can to fan the flames. The Daily Mail's 'Enemies of the People" headline was a disgrace. 

I've been a Conservative supporter for the past 15 years, but watching this year's Conservative Conference was painful. I agree with the MP who just resigned that the party is aiming to become 'UKIP light'. Amber Rudd's speech was dreadful. May seems to coming up with all sorts of ill-considered industrial policy which has not been debated within the party. And the comment about foreign-born doctors being able to 'go home' was pretty outrageous.  I am really surprised that Liz Truss (and May) have not come out to roundly condemn the press comments about the judges.

 

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3 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

"I want my country back"

Yes, I'd like to go back to the place it was before 23rd June. More civilised and democratic.

We seem to be lurching to some kind of mob-rule with  certain newspapers doing all they can to fan the flames. The Daily Mail's 'Enemies of the People" headline was a disgrace. 

I've been a Conservative supporter for the past 15 years, but watching this year's Conservative Conference was painful. I agree with the MP who just resigned that the party is aiming to become 'UKIP light'. Amber Rudd's speech was dreadful. May seems to coming up with all sorts of ill-considered industrial policy which has not been debated within the party. And the comment about foreign-born doctors being able to 'go home' was pretty outrageous.  I am really surprised that Liz Truss (and May) have not come out to roundly condemn the press comments about the judges.

 

How about 1972. That was democratic. The UK parliament made its own decisions not made up from Brussels. If it is democracy you wanted that is the date you should be looking at. This is the main problem with people. They don't realize that the UK parliament has very little control anymore. The EU with all its treaties have ensured that. Getting out of the EU has demonstrated that. Your first opening line is great. You just need to know your history.

 

You could argue that The Mirror, Times and Impendent do exactly the same  from another perspective. Along with the BBC who are the 'kings' of biased in the UK today.

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16 hours ago, Grouse said:

Don't try to wriggle out of it. You have been repeatedly warned by the mods over this. Just look at your ongoing forum behaviour toward Laughing Gravy, which is nothing more than bullying.

Yes it was bullying but that is what bullies do, to force their point  and opinions across. I am always open to peoples views and opinions, even if we disagree.  I do pity those keyboard warriors who ridicule and abuse others. Luckily I have very thick skin. Grouse can always invite me up to see him in Yorkshire for a nice cup of tea, the next time I am in the UK. I am sure his attitude would change towards me over a nice 'brew'. Yorkshire tea of course.

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20 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

Brexit doesn't make sense to me. The only problem is a few silly rules such as having to  serve meat pies too hot to eat. Europeans will be kept out but the flow of goliwogs and sheep shaggers will continue for political reasons.

Old Bull, I am surprised at the comment of the only problem.. The EU  has not made a few silly rules. It has made thousands of stupid rules. Plus it has and is still trying to force certain patterns of industry and business on European countries. It tells the UK what to do not the other was around. Sovereignty  has been took away. As someone who who hates PC I am surprised your two terms have passed the census and would agree, if they were removed.

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