mcfish Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Not the first time someone has been electrocuted in a swimming pool in Thailand and wont be the last.There is never a check or approval from an authorised person. It wasn't the pools fault Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 13 minutes ago, RaggaTwin said: My wife and I generally stick to booking the international hotels. Saves a lot of grief. You may be disappointed by the level of electrical safety even in the "international" hotels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaggaTwin Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Crossy said: You may be disappointed by the level of electrical safety even in the "international" hotels I know. But, surefire better than the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Crossy said: An RCD/RCBO (Safe-T-Cut) device would have saved him. Actually, I'd like to modify my earlier staement to:- "An RCD/RCBO (Safe-T-Cut) device would probably have saved him." The 30mA trip current of most domestic RCDs was chosen to limit the occurrence of "nuisance trips" whilst still being non-lethal to most of the population. The old, young, or infirm may not have the same tolerance to electric shock If you have a pool, particularly if it is used by children, please ensure that the pool equipment and any outlets which may be used to supply kit near the pool have 15mA RCDs protecting the circuit. Note - You can get a 15mA RCBO with a box for about 500 Baht from HomePro, so none of the "it costs too much" mantra! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waza46 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 1 hour ago, NCC1701A said: If you have a UPS, make sure you find your own ground connection or its just a waist of money. Welcome to Thailand. Whats a waist of money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaggaTwin Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 23 minutes ago, Crossy said: You may be disappointed by the level of electrical safety even in the "international" hotels More than a little patronising by the way. I wasn't born yesterday. Far better the international hotels otherwise their reputation would dissipate in a blink. Are you okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotman Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 8 hours ago, mcfish said: Why the need for an autopsy if they have it on video? Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk They need to know if drugs or illness had an impact and made him trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSF Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 I'd blame the shrubbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lampang2 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Similar death in a phuket swimming pool some years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbeieio Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 7 hours ago, geriatrickid said: Wouldn't a normal fuse prevent such a tragedy? NO- only an "earth leakage" trip switch would have saved him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khon Kaen Dave Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Nah,nah,nah.Not having that.Its all a bit too cut and dried.He slipped into the pool? How close was he standing to it.And the shrubbery plant and the hanging lamp were very close too.Its all a bit too dodgy for me. My opinion,my dear Sherlock's,is Cherchez la femme (find the woman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojero Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 RIP. Hanging lights, electrical wires, anything similar near or above pools is high risk. As in this case, minor malfunction or incidents electrifies entire pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKT Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 8 hours ago, geriatrickid said: Wouldn't a normal fuse prevent such a tragedy? no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKT Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 1 hour ago, pbeieio said: NO- only an "earth leakage" trip switch would have saved him! Sorry pbeieio and Crossy, I jumped in without reading all the posts, and I don't like to disagree with you but I am not sure if any trip would have saved him under these circumstances. As he fell in the pool he would have been zapped with the full current before it could trip-out. Even the 5 milliseconds before tripping would almost certainly have been enough to kill him (darn, now I will have to go and check the 17th edition to see if I am right about the percentages of deaths against time and current). Poor unlucky guy, but swimming pools and trailing electric leads are not compatible, you could easily get a lethal shock just from having wet feet as you got out of the pool and touched the lead if it had only a small fault or you tried to change a bulb without turning off the power, as people do. However, that is exactly the kind of circumstances where a RCD/ RCBO would help, full immersion is another matter. RIP and hope that others take note. I would add that if there was a fault in the pools lighting or pump circuits (as has so often been the case in swimming pool electrocutions) then an RCD/RCBO should trip and remove power to the faulty item before anybody was in the water, but this is an unusual case. I would further add that many swimming pool electrocutions have taken place in expensive hotels and condo's in all countries and I have seen some real crap in expensive Thai hotels. So condescending or not, it is foolish to assume that the pool is safe without a quick look around to check the quality of the fittings and any wiring no matter how many stars the hotel has - especially the underwater light fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandLOS Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 What a way to go.... R:I.P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belzybob Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 8 hours ago, geriatrickid said: Wouldn't a normal fuse prevent such a tragedy? No. Niet. Non. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKT Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 2 hours ago, RaggaTwin said: More than a little patronising by the way. I wasn't born yesterday. Far better the international hotels otherwise their reputation would dissipate in a blink. Are you okay? Dream on, do you really think that hotels in Thailand care that much about customers, they cover up any problems and carry on as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Khon Kaen Dave said: Nah,nah,nah.Not having that.Its all a bit too cut and dried.He slipped into the pool? How close was he standing to it.And the shrubbery plant and the hanging lamp were very close too.Its all a bit too dodgy for me. My opinion,my dear Sherlock's,is Cherchez la femme (find the woman) Normally, I'm a little cynical myself. But the OP seems to indicate that the tragedy was caught on CCTV. In fairness, it states he was seen on CCTV standing around the pool, then he fell in- so there is a little ambiguity. But probably a lot less mysterious than most foreigner fatalities reported in the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 4 hours ago, bubba45 said: Really crappy way to go. Should have just taken the dive and not grabbed anything. Automatic reflex caused a perfect storm scenario. The stars were in correct alignment. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Horst Holger....not Chilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 9 hours ago, geriatrickid said: Wouldn't a normal fuse prevent such a tragedy? Fuses protect the wiring and appiances, to much current being drawn. The earth is to protect people, current goes to earth instead of through someone. I think it is possible to earth the steel in the concrete in a pool and have an earth leakage breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOZMO Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Thai standard wiring is just two kot wires each carrying 110 volts. total gives you the 220V very few houses or condos use the grounded 3 wire system. the outlet may have three holes but the ground usually does not have anything connected to it. No neutral wires here !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damrongsak Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 "Thailand House Wiring" seems to have some good info on electrical wiring & safety. http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKT Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 30 minutes ago, KOZMO said: Thai standard wiring is just two kot wires each carrying 110 volts. total gives you the 220V very few houses or condos use the grounded 3 wire system. the outlet may have three holes but the ground usually does not have anything connected to it. No neutral wires here !!! Dear Kozmo, you are dangerously mistaken. Standard Thai electricity supply is 230 VAC and the two wires (Line and Neutral) both carry the same 230 Volts. Either will kill you with ease if you touch one and are earthed. In fact very often the Line and Neutral wires are interchanged so the MCB's that are the normal method of fusing here take a little longer to trip. Many older places do not have an earth, but this is rapidly changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritrace Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Some other factors we are not looking......220Volt-Breaker? we avoid them.....GFI, rare in Thailand but everywhere in U.S. Good on the cartoon. Low railing is the biggest thing that contributes to falling in so many places in Thailand but they never mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKT Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Peterw42 said: Fuses protect the wiring and appiances, to much current being drawn. The earth is to protect people, current goes to earth instead of through someone. I think it is possible to earth the steel in the concrete in a pool and have an earth leakage breaker. Sorry, this is only kind of correct. Fuses are the protective means to break the current running through a faulty wire, or appliance (or a person touching the live part) and simple fuses rely on burning out in the event of a short circuit. The earth wire does protect people by enabling the fault to be directed to earth and thus cause the short circuit to be enacted quicker. No earth wire means the short circuit to earth can be made by your body if you touch a faulty appliance/wire. The lower the rating of the fuse wire, eg 3 Amp the thinner the fuse wire and the quicker it will burn out in the event of a short circuit. MCBs, work quicker than simple fuses and RCD's RCBO's, ELCB's etc work by sensing that there is a leakage of current to earth and thus trip out even though there may not be a complete short circuit. You are recommended to the following if you are really interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_breaker By its very nature the rebar steel in a pool is already earthed, it’s literally embedded in the earth, even if it’s at the top of a high rise building the rebar steel in the building is all connected together and into the earth. So yes its essential to have an earth leakage breaker on the electricity supply to a swimming pool to trip out in the event of a faulty light fitting for instance. The problem is older installations might not have modern ELCB type of protection and thus only trip out in the event of a short circuit, which may be caused by your body getting between the faulty wire/part and earth, which would be made much, much worse if your body was encased in water, because water is a very good conductor of electricity. However, it my opinion that if you were already in the pool and say damaged a light fitting, I don't think an ELCB or any other fuse method would save your life because a belt of 230 V at 50 Hz AC through the chest can induce ventricular fibrillation at currents as low as 30 mA in just a fraction of a second, so you would be dead before it had time to trip out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKT Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 58 minutes ago, Damrongsak said: "Thailand House Wiring" seems to have some good info on electrical wiring & safety. http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/ Crossy be der man for der electrifictionering in LOS fer sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiSePuede419 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Which genius thought a hanging a light on a shrub next to a swimming pool was a good idea? Oh. Wait. Nevermind. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Grumpy Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Poor Thais. The concept of electricity seems beyond them. Poor Europeans in Thailand that don't understand just how little Thais know or care about such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrens54 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 9 hours ago, BlindMagician said: Well, a bit of thinking about what if scenarios, risk identification, etc, would have prevented this. Don't hang lighting on moveable objects near swimming pools! Sorry, but... Stay clear of death traps folks. Ok, the obligatory RIP. Err.. Don't forget.... "T I T" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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