University teaching shows why Thais' command of English is so abysmal!

[Sig]

On 12/6/2016 at 0:15 PM, Charlie1 said:

I noticed that many Thais try to speak a not understandable "American English". They should be taught only by UK native speakers - the teachers, I mean.

hahaha That's too funny. I suppose a UK native speaker from Newcastle would be your preference? No offense intended. I actually find all accents interesting, but in my travels I have found that many UK native accents are frequently incomprehensible to many around the world.

[Artisi]

26 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

I am yet to meet a foreigner with a full a command of the word as I have.

and what word might that be?

[jpinx]

Let's face it -- English is the most copied and modified language in the world.  The Yanks think their version is "true"" English but it's actually the founding fathers language and didn't keep up with the language changes in UK.  The UK claims proprietorial rights, but without saying which part of UK speaks "correct" English.   The teachers job is to give students the skills to communicate clearly, not speak some  "perfect" English -- that can come to the ones who have the ambition to be a linguist.  The problem for Thailand is the appalling misunderstanding of the absolute basics of English phonetics and sentence construction -- they are so very different to Thai.

[soalbundy]

Ali G forever

[Shawn0000]

50 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Let's face it -- English is the most copied and modified language in the world.  The Yanks think their version is "true"" English but it's actually the founding fathers language and didn't keep up with the language changes in UK.  The UK claims proprietorial rights, but without saying which part of UK speaks "correct" English.   The teachers job is to give students the skills to communicate clearly, not speak some  "perfect" English -- that can come to the ones who have the ambition to be a linguist.  The problem for Thailand is the appalling misunderstanding of the absolute basics of English phonetics and sentence construction -- they are so very different to Thai.

 

American English separated forever from British English in 1828 when Webster codified Standard American English, AmE, and included a pronunciation standard by Keynon based on the Ohio accent, GenAm.  Some words in American English are carryovers from defunct British English, some are their own invents, and the many spelling simplifications have mostly evolved over time but some were made by Webster himself.

 

In British English, UKSE, the standard is also set by the dictionaries and the accent of Standard English as prescribed within the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries, is known as Received Pronunciation, RP, and was based on the accents of Southern England.  In 1974 it was estimated that 3% of British people use this pronunciation in its entirety.  There is no specific region that uses RP, the issue being more one of class.

[The Dark Lord]

16 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

You can't blame a low standard of English teaching on Thais, when English newspaper journalists and editors have such a bad standard of English. Sone of the most basic rules of English are continuously ignored. Never ever start a sentence with the four words "because, so and but" and try to avoid using them twice in the same sentence. Always use "a" before a word starting with a consonant and "an" before a word starting with a vowel, except for an hour or an honour. The teaching of English is not at the level it should be in the UK. Bad English teaching bad English teaching Thais I am not surprised.

As well as referring to ; hotels  (an hotel dropping the pronounced h)  facts from history ( an historical fact) the list is much larger.

[The Dark Lord]

18 hours ago, ffaarraanngg said:

Us English have quite a few names for you also.

We English have quite a few ...........

[EnlightenedAtheist]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

Let's face it -- English is the most copied and modified language in the world.  The Yanks think their version is "true"" English but it's actually the founding fathers language and didn't keep up with the language changes in UK.  The UK claims proprietorial rights, but without saying which part of UK speaks "correct" English.   The teachers job is to give students the skills to communicate clearly, not speak some  "perfect" English -- that can come to the ones who have the ambition to be a linguist.  The problem for Thailand is the appalling misunderstanding of the absolute basics of English phonetics and sentence construction -- they are so very different to Thai.

 

English phonetics? And how do you suggest that helps when you have this nitemare, oh sorry, nytmare, oh sorry, nuitmare, oh sorry, neyetmare, oh sorry, nightmair, oh <deleted> it, this one has 10 other possible spellings?

 

 

There are 205 different spellings for 43 or so phonemes, 80+ spelling rules, hundreds of thousands of words that are misspelled. Even the alphabet is screwed up. In you defense, most consonants are pronounced one way, but note the numerous issues. This is just a sample. (For more info, 

 

 

By, buy, bye, bie, ....

 

 

[The Dark Lord]

10 hours ago, Estrada said:

It is from the German "Ich Bin ein Englander" = "I am an Englander"

Oh I see, something like JFK's famous cock up when he likened himself to a sweet cake when what he meant was he was from Berlin.

 

Englander is a foreign expression mostly used by those whose natural language is closely linked to the Germanic tongue to refer to the English. It is not, to the best of my knowledge a word used by the Indigenous population of England to describe themselves.

[The Dark Lord]

6 hours ago, pookiki said:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people

 

Why do people like to use the vastly flawed Wikipedia as a reference point?

 

In my opinion it immediately flags them as not being as smart as they lay claim to be.

[gemguy]

6 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

It's a reasonable point to say why should they learn English, they are course Thai and have their own Thai language.

 

The only real point is that English has developed into the International language for communication. So, in todays shrinking world Thailand will find itself behind neighbouring countries such as the Philippines (who have excellent English language skills) over time.

 

International business is here to stay and it will continue to grow so there will be fewer people available from Thailand to fill positions in companies due to poor English language skills. In addition Thailand sees itself as a tourist destination and of course the common language is again English.

 

Even the Chinese are improving their English language skills year on year despite their huge population. So, agree or disagree, like it or not English will continue to become more and more widespread.

 

 

Absolutely....Meantime in a Galaxy not so far away and known as the Philippines nearly everyone there speaks English and overall, throughout the country, very well, all things considered, while the education system is such that all students do not go to the next grade if they do not pass the English language tests "enforced" by the education board and the teachers.

Why do I not pity them for being forced, by way of educational enforcement resulting in a country having people with English language skills that are in demand.

Meantime, here in this bizarre Galaxy, no one fails rather everyone passes no matter what...La Dee Da.....Som Tum on my mind...lol

 

Cheers

 

[rijb]

21 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

Why do people like to use the vastly flawed Wikipedia as a reference point?

 

In my opinion it immediately flags them as not being as smart as they lay claim to be.

 

Did you learn that in Facebook?

[Shawn0000]

30 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

Why do people like to use the vastly flawed Wikipedia as a reference point?

 

In my opinion it immediately flags them as not being as smart as they lay claim to be.

 

How about Encyclopedia Britannica?  According to a study by Nature Journal they fair equally with regard to accuracy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm

 

What are these flaws that a smart guy like you can pick up on but the peer reviewers tasked by Nature all missed?

[Khun Paul]

The Thai curriculum states quite clearly that British English is the norm. Unfortunately  as we all know so well that Thailand will not pay and probably never will pay enough to get good native English speakers and the requirements required also pit many good possibly retired English speakers off.

In ten years of teaching here, I have met and worked with a mere handful of teachers whose command of the English language is acceptable, the rest however makes me cringe when they speak and they also do not have the knowledge of how English can vary or for that matter how to say the same thing differently, I have found that Sentence construction coupled with writing is in many cases not taught at all, it is then that you need the grammar .

[EnlightenedAtheist]

2 hours ago, jpinx said:

Let's face it -- English is the most copied and modified language in the world.  The Yanks think their version is "true"" English but it's actually the founding fathers language and didn't keep up with the language changes in UK.  The UK claims proprietorial rights, but without saying which part of UK speaks "correct" English.   The teachers job is to give students the skills to communicate clearly, not speak some  "perfect" English -- that can come to the ones who have the ambition to be a linguist.  The problem for Thailand is the appalling misunderstanding of the absolute basics of English phonetics and sentence construction -- they are so very different to Thai.

 

English phonetics? And how do you suggest that helps when you have this nitemare, oh sorry, nytmare, oh sorry, nuitmare, oh sorry, neyetmare, oh sorry, nightmair, oh <deleted> it, this one has 10 other possible spellings?

 

 

There are 205 different spellings for 43 or so phonemes, 80+ spelling rules, hundreds of thousands of words that are misspelled. Even the alphabet is screwed up. In you defense, most consonants are pronounced one way, but note he numerous issues. 

 

[jpinx]

... 

 

All totally unnecessary for the teaching of basic communication skills in English language.

[Jonmarleesco]

Checked by a top university? Had to be a Thai one - or Chinese. Might have been better had they forgotten about face and had a professional native (not Filipino) speaker and editor check everything. Now Facebook has literally seen the prof(s) lose face, whether or not they choose to admit it.

 

And when did penis translate as urination? Because the article's writer seems to have assumed that to be correct.

[optad]

We would all be better off if we spoke that sing-song dialect they have in Tennessee. Carry a uke, stop for a gig and song and move up the hill. Good Life.

 

Absolutely no need to understand anybody else. 

[Jonmarleesco]

3 hours ago, The Dark Lord said:

Oh I see, something like JFK's famous cock up when he likened himself to a sweet cake when what he meant was he was from Berlin.

 

Englander is a foreign expression mostly used by those whose natural language is closely linked to the Germanic tongue to refer to the English. It is not, to the best of my knowledge a word used by the Indigenous population of England to describe themselves.

Quite right.

[optad]

27 minutes ago, jpinx said:

... 

 

All totally unnecessary for the teaching of basic communication skills in English language.

 

Actually,  totally unnecessary for the teaching of most English courses in general, ILElts and TOFEL cautiously regarded and included in this respect.

 

Language is changing radically re-usage and standards too with net structures and new communication mediums. Huge impact. Most progressive university facilities are pedagogically not so archaic, the question is... can the older teachers on the ground in Thailand  adapt?  

[EnlightenedAtheist]

41 minutes ago, jpinx said:

... 

 

All totally unnecessary for the teaching of basic communication skills in English language.

 

... THE English language.

 

How basic? Why just basic? Many students work in the tourism industry. Some are even tour guides. What are you talking about? Colour naming? Greetings? There is more to communication than learning those.

 

No matter how advanced or communicative one's pedagogy is, to help students commit to memory vocabulary in a classroom setting, one must provide students with some written material and students must --even in the most advanced of communicative approaches-- use some kind of writing (AKA script) to create communication situations (skits, for instance). As a teacher in immersion programs for 10 years, even in this very communicative teaching approach, the teaching of writing happens. It is just more efficient. It is also good teaching, as research shows that multi-sensory teaching and learning are best. Are you suggesting teachers, students use ONLY images to teach and learn? No reading? Are you suggesting that teachers and students only speak and listen in classes? Learning languages like one learns a mother-tongue is very inefficient, unless you want to pay for one-on-one teaching for 5 years (12 hrs/day). 

 

But, we can say anything is unnecessary so we don't have to address the real issue. LOL It is an easy cop out.

[jpinx]

6 minutes ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

 

... THE English language.

 

How basic? Why just basic? Many students work in the tourism industry. Some are even tour guides. What are you talking about? Colour naming? Greetings? There is more to communication than learning those.

 

No matter how advanced or communicative one's pedagogy is, to help students commit to memory vocabulary in a classroom setting, one must provide students with some written material and students must --even in the most advanced of communicative approaches-- use some kind of writing (AKA script) to create communication situations (skits, for instance). As a teacher in immersion programs for 10 years, even in this very communicative teaching approach, the teaching of writing happens. It is just more efficient. It is also good teaching, as research shows that multi-sensory teaching and learning are best. Are you suggesting teachers, students use ONLY images to teach and learn? No reading? Are you suggesting that teachers and students only speak and listen in classes? Learning languages like one learns a mother-tongue is very inefficient, unless you want to pay for one-on-one teaching for 5 years (12 hrs/day). 

 

But, we can say anything is unnecessary so we don't have to address the real issue. LOL It is an easy cop out.

Good grief!!!  What a pompous ass.  Teachers, as I have said already, are there to give the students communications skills based on English.  Anything more than that would be up to the individual students.

[poohy]

Driving into Huay yang today Homepro signs advertising different special offers along the road side 

 

one i believe was for a waste water tank evidently google translate must have got confused somewhat.......

 

only....Sadly picture of said tank labelled ABORTION WATER

[Shawn0000]

5 minutes ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

 

... THE English language.

 

How basic? Why just basic? Many students work in the tourism industry. Some are even tour guides. What are you talking about? Colour naming? Greetings? There is more to communication than learning those.

 

No matter how advanced or communicative one's pedagogy is, to help students commit to memory vocabulary in a classroom setting, one must provide students with some written material and students must --even in the most advanced of communicative approaches-- use some kind of writing (AKA script) to create communication situations (skits, for instance). As a teacher in immersion programs for 10 years, even in this very communicative teaching approach, the teaching of writing happens. It is just more efficient. It is also good teaching, as research shows that multi-sensory teaching and learning are best. Are you suggesting teachers, students use ONLY images to teach and learn? No reading? Are you suggesting that teachers and students only speak and listen in classes? Learning languages like one learns a mother-tongue is very inefficient, unless you want to pay for one-on-one teaching for 5 years (12 hrs/day). 

 

But, we can say anything is unnecessary so we don't have to address the real issue. LOL It is an easy cop out.

 

It is very efficient if done in an appropriate way, such as through cartoons to pre-schoolers.  Thailand could see a huge change in a relatively short period of time by simply banning the dubbing of foreign TV shows for children.  I've met Scandinavian 5 year olds with a better working knowledge of English than many Thai English teachers.

[Johnniey]

4 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

American English separated forever from British English in 1828 when Webster codified Standard American English, AmE, and included a pronunciation standard by Keynon based on the Ohio accent, GenAm.  Some words in American English are carryovers from defunct British English, some are their own invents, and the many spelling simplifications have mostly evolved over time but some were made by Webster himself.

 

In British English, UKSE, the standard is also set by the dictionaries and the accent of Standard English as prescribed within the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries, is known as Received Pronunciation, RP, and was based on the accents of Southern England.  In 1974 it was estimated that 3% of British people use this pronunciation in its entirety.  There is no specific region that uses RP, the issue being more one of class.

Amazing the experts google has spawned.

[Shawn0000]

3 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

Amazing the experts google has spawned.

 

Isn't it, and the library...

[nausea]

Number one is motivation. I've known people become fluent, and their initial motivation was something as trivial as Harry Potter or English language music. But we all know that as kids we can become obsessed,  and overcome all obstacles. For most Thai people English language mastery is pretty low on the priorities. It's nice to have it, but it won't change your life. It's slowly changing, as the upper and middle classes realise that English language mastery is a "sine qua non"  to entry into the priviliged elite. I predict there will be a drip down effect. What I mean by that is all the current pretence will be blown away, and normal people will be pursuing effective solutions to their lack of English language skills.

[lamyai3]

19 hours ago, soalbundy said:

American English is without charm, it sounds crude and harsh, especially when spoken by a woman.

 

It depends on the woman. Hillary Clinton, harsh... Scarlett Johansson delightful. 

[Scott]

Posts critical of spelling and grammar removed, as well as a few others.   Try to stay on topic and keep the discussion civil.  

[lamyai3]

7 hours ago, nausea said:

Number one is motivation. I've known people become fluent, and their initial motivation was something as trivial as Harry Potter or English language music. But we all know that as kids we can become obsessed,  and overcome all obstacles. For most Thai people English language mastery is pretty low on the priorities. It's nice to have it, but it won't change your life. It's slowly changing, as the upper and middle classes realise that English language mastery is a "sine qua non"  to entry into the priviliged elite. I predict there will be a drip down effect. What I mean by that is all the current pretence will be blown away, and normal people will be pursuing effective solutions to their lack of English language skills.

 

Don't consider Harry Potter trivial. Many of the adult actors are seasoned thespians and are a national treasure in the UK, well established in playing any manner of role, Shakespeare or otherwise. They know how to work a script, and the screenplay as well as the original books have many fine examples of proper language usage.