Scandal brewing as 100 of Thailand's new NGV buses are held by customs

[laocowboy2]

2 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

I wonder if the Army had to pay duty on the Ukrainian Personnel carriers that they bought or the AR 15's recently purchased  ?

 

Or does Thai International pay customs duty on airplanes ?

 

Why is one part of the government charging another part of the government as if they were a private individual ?

 

 

I presume it is the same for military purchases but aircraft and equipment purchases by Thai-registered airlines are tax free. However not so if the equipment is imported by a non-airline - which screwed a potential deal for Islamic Bank of Thailand to finance planes for Bangkok Airways back in the day using an Ijara (lease) structure.

[chainarong]

I know how you feel, Singapore is having similar problems in HK , with their troop carries made in Taiwan......................................

[slapout]

The middle man again rears his ugly head. His bid to government was for buses built in Malaysia, including tax, but he knew he could buy busses direct from China cheaper and the difference in total price, less higher chinese tax ( as they were said to be of Malay manufactor) would be his to do with as he pleased. Now I suspect there would be a middle man (agent) in China and in Malay for this company as well as possible payoffs to Thai government people involved. The agents ensure the documents show what is quoted in delivery, service, and Thai people accept delivery after customs is cleared and the bidder can get paid via L/C at the bank. etc. In this case it appears someone tried the old way of getting wealthy at taxpayer expense, but if this is truly what happened, someone screwed up bad and that includes more than just the money involved.

If I remember correctly service and maintance was included as part of the purchase package price, wonder what language those people will speak?

[bangrak]

4 hours ago, sandgroper2 said:

You must take your evidence that the buses were made in China to the authorities.

What about bringing your evidence that the buses were truly 'made in Malaysia' to the authorities? Please let us know.

[Woodsie888]

3 hours ago, CheshireFarang said:

No mystery here. These are Sunlong Buses 100% made in China. You'd think somebody might have thought about changing the badges.

Gemilang build buses in Malaysia on Sunlong chassis. They also do SKD and CKD Sunlong.

[fruitman]

3 hours ago, zakk9 said:

The buses all have Sunlong logos and it says Sunlong on the side of each of them. Sunlong is a Chinese bus manufacturer based in Shanghai. In theory, they could be manufactured under license in Malaysia, but my guess is that the chances for that are rather slim.

 

 

Those windows are too big. I was in a train in Japan (near mount Fuji) and the other Thai tourists closed all their curtains because they were playing on their phones...So we couldn't enjoy the view from their side.

[jb5music]

They were manufactured by.... I'll tell you who they were manufactured by.. NOT DIESEL ENGINE bus manufacturers.....

Does that clear things up for you?

Don't pass go, don't collect $200.... signed.. Trumpsville

fossil fracky technology stagnators conservative profits opportunists planet destroyers birds of a feather.....

"We're not real big believers"

 NEXT subject.

 

[maximillian]

If the buses were made in Malaysia, then why did they get shipped and not just driven to BKK ?

Okey, maybe cheaper than paying 100 drivers plus fuel.

Documents should tell where they were manufactured. Ah, if documents were not falsified...

Anyway, it shouldn't be too difficult to find the bus factory wheather in China or in Malaysia.

[samsensam]

 

cant be hard for someone from customs to pop into malaysia and check the factory where the buses were manufactured, and confirm there are another 389 on the production line.

 

oh, the address of the factory is a piece of waste land just outside KL, who'd have thunk it.

[baboon]

7 hours ago, bsdthai said:

Omg when will the big wigs learn to stop trying to take a cut. This is just absolutely ridiculous. Its shameless and humiliating for the country as a whole. Self profiting/funding from do good projects should be at the very least punishable by death.

At the very LEAST punishable by death? Where do you propose to go from there? ?

[trogers]

4 hours ago, siam2007 said:

 

 

okay as you are obviously indeed completely clueless, I explain it to you. The ship went from China to Thailand VIA Malaysia. means, it stopped at Malaysia on its way to Thailand.

 

Look at the World Atlas. Where is the Malayan port? Between China and Thailand? The two industrial zones of Malaysia are located near the Strait of Malacca...

[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, trogers said:

 

Look at the World Atlas. Where is the Malayan port? Between China and Thailand? The two industrial zones of Malaysia are located near the Strait of Malacca...

 

Kemaman Supply Base (KSB) is a very large port in Terengganu, about 280 km south of the Thai border on the Gulf of Thailand side. Principally an oilfield support base, major commercial shipping carriers also have offices and facilities there. It is about a 6 hour drive from KL.

[Jonmarleesco]

I've had stuff stuck in customs before, with the unnamed courier taking their sweet time to advise me. And I've had customs screwing me for duty on things that shouldn't have attracted duty. Welcome to the prols' world.

[trogers]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Kemaman Supply Base (KSB) is a very large port in Terengganu, about 280 km south of the Thai border on the Gulf of Thailand side. Principally an oilfield support base, major commercial shipping carriers also have offices and facilities there. It is about a 6 hour drive from KL.

 

Industrial zones are in the West of KL or southern tip of Johore. They would not drive those buses to a port in Terengganu when they already have ports in the West and South.

 

Strait of Malacca is a major shipping lane where passing ships can pick up the cargo, with no need to charter one from China to sail pass Thailand towards Singapore, and then back to Thailand.

 

This is where the irregularity lies...

[GiantFan]

Too many red flags.  Where was acceptance test conducted?  More importantly, to what code/standard were they built to (remember this is a high pressure gas)?  The factory that is approved to build it will be on a document saying so.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, GiantFan said:

Apply internationally recognized rules of origin.  You can't just slap on the wheels in KL and say it's Malaysian made.

 

But you CAN use the term "assembled in Malaysia with parts from various countries".

[Nerone]

9 hours ago, ezzra said:

 

I would have liked to be a fly on the wall of this meeting room full of extra smart

people whose decided to pull a shifty on the custom by declaring Chinese busses

as Malaysians... I'm sure the customs are furious of thinking of them to be that

dumb and stupid to not notice the different.....

If you ever dealt with thai customs you'll surely realize that they are tricking the guy in pay undertable money for not leave the buses parked on hefty fees. everyday more is an extra 300,000 baht. When they get their share of cakes, then they will approve that they are made in China, and i am sure they are, they probably just transit in Malaysia...

[GiantFan]

47 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

But you CAN use the term "assembled in Malaysia with parts from various countries".

True.  The Malaysian assembly factory would them need to be audited and then can be listed on the manufacturers approval certificate as an approved factory.  Follow the paper trail.

Since these buses carry high pressure gas, there is a H&S issue.  Insurance companies will want to know too.

[Srikcir]

Scandal brewing?

According to Minister of Transport Omsin Cheewapruek in September 2016, the buses being purchased are produced in China. But they are assembled in Malaysia. A common process that was surely anticipated and disclosed by all parties involved in awarding the bid. Now this process is being investigated as possible evasion of import tariffs and costing Bestrin now probably all its profit margin on the sale in demurrage costs alone.

 

Remember that Bestrin Group didn't originally win the purchase bid for the buses. It had filed a lawsuit against suing BMTA Chairman Pol General Aek Angsananont,  seven members of the BMTA's board and the director of successful bidder JVCC Joint Venture Suradej Taweesangsahultai, for alleged collusion by rigging bids for the purchase and maintenance of the 489 NGV-fuelled buses.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/848450-bmta-faces-lawsuit-alleging-ngv-bid-collusion/

 

While BMTA said it had done the purchase with JVCC correctly, BMTA "renewed" its purchase plan (TOR) for the buses in conjunction with a meeting with autmotive companies, operators, anti-corruption agencies, the press, etc.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/911160-bmta-gives-details-on-ngv-bus-procurement-tor/

 

As a result of a revised bidding process, Bestrin won the bid. The corruption investigation ceased and lawsuit apparently withdrawn. Now Bestrin is being "skewered" over the deal.

A little payback or leverage for a purchase that was intended for JVCC?

 

[sandgroper2]

10 hours ago, zakk9 said:

The buses all have Sunlong logos and it says Sunlong on the side of each of them. Sunlong is a Chinese bus manufacturer based in Shanghai. In theory, they could be manufactured under license in Malaysia, but my guess is that the chances for that are rather slim.

 

Signage  means absolutely nothing. Get real . (Wanna buy a genuine Rolex, only 500baht)

[jb5music]

@Srikcir. That's excellent fact finding and well read on the subject.. An underlying bid corruption "smoke and mirrors" cover up fiasco creating the"smoke and mirrors" tariff fiasco. But the problem with this being all that's perpetrated here is that these are NGV alternate fuel buses which would displace the consumption of diesel fuel buses in the transportation

sector. 

 

Are there any parallel stick-in-the-spokes.

oops-there's-a-big-tariff-impoundment-screw-up fiascos for 

for DIESEL buses through customs?

 

Diesel buses FLY through customs... they'd pay back the tariffs later in operation and tiny little customs wouldn't DARE get in the way of Gigantor international fossil fuel diesel suppliers consortiums.

 

...protecting their tax funded public transportation diesel blowout feeding frenzy.

 

 

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Scandal brewing?

According to Minister of Transport Omsin Cheewapruek in September 2016, the buses being purchased are produced in China. But they are assembled in Malaysia. A common process that was surely anticipated and disclosed by all parties involved in awarding the bid. Now this process is being investigated as possible evasion of import tariffs and costing Bestrin now probably all its profit margin on the sale in demurrage costs alone.

 

Remember that Bestrin Group didn't originally win the purchase bid for the buses. It had filed a lawsuit against suing BMTA Chairman Pol General Aek Angsananont,  seven members of the BMTA's board and the director of successful bidder JVCC Joint Venture Suradej Taweesangsahultai, for alleged collusion by rigging bids for the purchase and maintenance of the 489 NGV-fuelled buses.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/848450-bmta-faces-lawsuit-alleging-ngv-bid-collusion/

 

While BMTA said it had done the purchase with JVCC correctly, BMTA "renewed" its purchase plan (TOR) for the buses in conjunction with a meeting with autmotive companies, operators, anti-corruption agencies, the press, etc.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/911160-bmta-gives-details-on-ngv-bus-procurement-tor/

 

As a result of a revised bidding process, Bestrin won the bid. The corruption investigation ceased and lawsuit apparently withdrawn. Now Bestrin is being "skewered" over the deal.

A little payback or leverage for a purchase that was intended for JVCC?

 

 

The stated 40% local (Malaysian) content of these Chinese-manufactured but (allegedly) Malaysian-assembled buses is yet to be defined as qualifying as ASEAN-built. I would assume this is defined in the revised TOR for the original bid. Bestrin (the same company that has previously imported thousands of buses from China for the private sector so not new in this business) has publicly vowed to pay import duty if its Malaysian supplier is found to have placed false documentation to claim a tax exemption. I did read somewhere yesterday that the importing agent allegedly have no previous experience in importation of buses of any sort.

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, trogers said:

 

Industrial zones are in the West of KL or southern tip of Johore. They would not drive those buses to a port in Terengganu when they already have ports in the West and South.

 

Strait of Malacca is a major shipping lane where passing ships can pick up the cargo, with no need to charter one from China to sail pass Thailand towards Singapore, and then back to Thailand.

 

This is where the irregularity lies...

I am not trying to say what the bus manufacturers specifically did or didn't do. I am countering your inference that peninsular Malaysia is constrained to only using ports on the straits of Malacca. The road from KL to KSB is 95% motorway.

 

Smaller 'feeder' marine cargo transportation does exist. It's where the nautical term 'coasters' originated and 'break bulk' cargo is how it gets to the ports that are not directly located on the main commercial sealanes.

[jb5music]

It's called technology stagnation.. It's been going on for some time...

 

"..There were companies like Milburn and Detroit Electric that brought very competitive (electric) cars  to the market at the time. We're talking about the teens and the early 20s. The Milburn is one of those stories... history now tells that GM in 1924 bought out the whole company to dismantle the factory so they wouldn't have that (electric) car competing."

 

Quantino nano flow cell

 

Toyota fuel cell bus

 

KAIST olev wireless induction road charging

 

 

 

HY4 hydrogen fuel cell prototype

 

Germany's Coradia iLint HFC train

 

fuel cells are reversible..

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2016-02-08-Boeing-Delivers-Reversible-Fuel-Cell-based-Energy-Storage-System-to-U-S-Navy#assets_117

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trogers]

6 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Scandal brewing?

According to Minister of Transport Omsin Cheewapruek in September 2016, the buses being purchased are produced in China. But they are assembled in Malaysia. A common process that was surely anticipated and disclosed by all parties involved in awarding the bid. Now this process is being investigated as possible evasion of import tariffs and costing Bestrin now probably all its profit margin on the sale in demurrage costs alone.

 

Remember that Bestrin Group didn't originally win the purchase bid for the buses. It had filed a lawsuit against suing BMTA Chairman Pol General Aek Angsananont,  seven members of the BMTA's board and the director of successful bidder JVCC Joint Venture Suradej Taweesangsahultai, for alleged collusion by rigging bids for the purchase and maintenance of the 489 NGV-fuelled buses.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/848450-bmta-faces-lawsuit-alleging-ngv-bid-collusion/

 

While BMTA said it had done the purchase with JVCC correctly, BMTA "renewed" its purchase plan (TOR) for the buses in conjunction with a meeting with autmotive companies, operators, anti-corruption agencies, the press, etc.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/911160-bmta-gives-details-on-ngv-bus-procurement-tor/

 

As a result of a revised bidding process, Bestrin won the bid. The corruption investigation ceased and lawsuit apparently withdrawn. Now Bestrin is being "skewered" over the deal.

A little payback or leverage for a purchase that was intended for JVCC?

 

 

Manufactured in China and assembled in Malaysia would not result in a ship originating in China via Malaysia.

 

Buses in knock down packages would have been sent from China to Malaysia many months ago, the time needed for assembly. Not just a shipping stopover, to change those rubber tyres?

[outsider]

Someone forgot to list the 'Customs Department' in the 'Payees' category.

[madmitch]

"Come on, get them buses out!"

 

(Quote only for those who understand my avatar)

[JAG]

"Come on, get them buses out!"

 

(Quote only for those who understand my avatar)

"I'll ave you Butler..."

[anon4637435435]

13 hours ago, baboon said:

At the very LEAST punishable by death? Where do you propose to go from there? ?

Well, i wouldnt be going anywhere. I would chose to continue living happily in a country where i know the best interests are invested in my thai families and my families future. Currently that doesnt exist. If you have a better plan please put it forward and watch it have no effect.

Didnt the new general say that corruptuon would now be punishable by death? I remember reading something quite sone time ago on tv. maybe someone can find a link to this. Nothing happened there obviously. That would be a mass killing.

Take a look around. Scum run the country. Villege funds will go up by 500000thb per year next year but i am the one connecting people's water, fixing roads etc. Yet, public servents are putting up new houses that there is no way they could afford. 

The people are not getting what they deserve and i think we could agree on this regardless.

Drug dealers are put to death yet corruption is destroying more lives from what i see.

I have 3 people next door all dying from cancer from making charcoal that the local mayor runs a little ring where the people are allowed to illegally log to do this and they get paid peanuts. They have no idea of government assistance, not sure how to get help for health and such. Its appalling so im getting these people help and jobs for others whilst getting death threats for doing the right thing. 

 

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, madmitch said:

"Come on, get them buses out!"

 

(Quote only for those who understand my avatar)

 

I hate you Butler.

 

Stephen Lewis

Reg Varney

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Anna Karen (who is now 80, teaches drama and is also in East Enders)