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BANGKOK 22 March 2019 03:24
LannaGuy

PSA test

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When starting to worry about a.high PSA it's important to know that the one thing PSA mirrors most accurately is the size of the prostate. So if you have BPH....as I do.....and your prostate is just 50% wider in each dimension one can expect a PSA higher than normal by 1.5x1.5x1.5......over three times normal. Obviously for double dimensions PSA would be 8x normal....and so on....

 

 

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8 hours ago, cheeryble said:

When starting to worry about a.high PSA it's important to know that the one thing PSA mirrors most accurately is the size of the prostate. So if you have BPH....as I do.....and your prostate is just 50% wider in each dimension one can expect a PSA higher than normal by 1.5x1.5x1.5......over three times normal. Obviously for double dimensions PSA would be 8x normal....and so on....

 

 

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I've never heard that before. Where did you read that?

I used to check PSA every 3 months for about 2.5 years but now the PSA has stabilized according to the doctor, so I check every 6 months now. I would rather be on top of things and know what is happening. I also had the biopsy a couple of years ago.

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19 hours ago, NancyL said:

Your friend had benign prostatic hyperplasia.  According to Dr. Wiki about 50% of men some evidence of it by age 50 and 75% by age 80.  It is correlated with the use of alcohol and caffeine and some studies suggest it's also correlated with consumption of high amounts of protein.  It's really a very common condition in older men who live a western lifestyle.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benign_prostatic_hyperplasia

 

 

 

Funnily enough he has been vegetarian for 30 years and drinks moderately (he's late 50s) just unlucky I guess 

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I've never heard that before. Where did you read that?


Sure bigger prostate=higher PSA. That is why the little guys all get low PSA scores. Just common sense.??
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Sure bigger prostate=higher PSA. That is why the little guys all get low PSA scores. Just common sense.

 

Haha perhaps not so common.....wouldn't the little guys have less blood to dilute the less PSA and average out the same as the big guys?

However it's quite sure prostate volume is related to PSA and of course volume is proportional to the cube of the dimension, even if the prostate is not a perfectly regular shape it's going to pretty much hold true.

 

 

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On 5/8/2017 at 6:23 PM, NancyL said:

Hubby and I wrestle with the "to test or not to test" PSA issue every time he has his annual (or more like every 14-16 months) health screening.  This is because both the size of his prostrate and his PSA number started to get larger about five years ago.  He had a biopsy a couple years ago and everything was OK, but having a biopsy carries risks and having a negative reading doesn't necessarily mean that someone is cancer-free.  It just means they didn't find any in their samples.  

 

But, in my Lanna Care Net activity, I've seen about a dozen men go through end-of-life due to prostate cancer and it is the one of the worst forms death I've seen.  The cancer spread into bones, usually the pelvis and spine, crippling the victim and creating a huge burden for his family or caregivers.  The victim is bedridden well before death comes.  

 

Most people would like to die at home, but it's difficult with this disease.  They become a dead weight in the bed, difficult for their family to bathe, move about, keep from getting bedsores.  They really should be in a hospital-type bed, tended by people with proper equipment.  Sadly, the man is unable to assist his family in moving himself.

 

That's because the cancer has invaded important bones, and the pain is intense.  Also, it doesn't take very many days of constant bed-rest before someone's muscles wither.  Pain control at home is very difficult.  Someone must keep an ongoing relationship with a doctor, someone willing to prescribe oral morphine for home use.  Doctors here will prescribe only to people they know and only if there is someone responsible at home to monitor and administer.  At some point that ceases to work or someone is unable to take the medicine by mouth.  There is no way to have nurses visit and administer morphine by IV here.  There are no patient-controlled pain medicine pumps here.  

 

The best alternative for someone dying of prostrate cancer is to spend their final weeks at McKean Rehabilitation Center, a skilled nursing facility with some nice private rooms at a reasonable price.  Your loved one could come and stay with you there.  Vivo Bene Village in Doi Saket has also helped people with more money to spend through the end-of-life and their entire family would be welcome in their upscale surroundings.  These facilities have the equipment, nurses and knowledge to take care of a dying man's body, keeping him as pain-free as possible, clean and comfortable, permitting his family to focus on being with him during his final weeks and not expending all their energy caring for him.

 

I've gone on a little to long, but this is a subject close to me.  Many of the men I've watch die were under age 70.  Some actually "caught" their cancer in early stages with a PSA test and decided to do nothing, but most hadn't.  The "cure" for prostrate cancer is daunting and can be expensive to someone living pension-check-to-pension-check, which is why the men who caught it early decided to "do nothing".  But, there is less invasive action, like taking drugs to suppress hormones production and slow down the cancer, etc.  

 

Options like this make me push Hubby to have a PSA test with each health screening and then retest three months later just to make sure the number isn't rising significantly.  I'll continue to push him after he gets in his 70s, until it's obvious he's going to die from something else within a 2-3 years.  At this time, though, he's very healthy, except for the need to take longer when he pees.  It's probably that enlarged prostate.  

a few years ago had the psa done over 10 which indicates you have a 50 percent chance of having cancer. Got started on finisteride next test down to 2.5 just keep taking 1mg a day and zinc to prevent amrotese or testosterone conversion to estrogen feel good no problems and I am 72 this year. take the test get on treatment if high DHT levels, be safe

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No one here mentions DHT that is what basicly causes the prostate to swell. Testosterone and DHT compete for the same receptor sights but DHT being 5 times stronger than test. will usually win out and the DHT is what eventually leads to enlarged prostate. Too do this right have more blood work up than just psa also check Testosterone, estrogen, and DHT they are all interrelated

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However it's quite sure prostate volume is related to PSA and of course volume is proportional to the cube of the dimension, even if the prostate is not a perfectly regular shape it's going to pretty much hold true.
 
 
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"The cube of the dimension"

The shit one reads here is so often either sad or comedy or both.

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23 hours ago, cheeryble said:

When starting to worry about a.high PSA it's important to know that the one thing PSA mirrors most accurately is the size of the prostate. So if you have BPH....as I do.....and your prostate is just 50% wider in each dimension one can expect a PSA higher than normal by 1.5x1.5x1.5......over three times normal. Obviously for double dimensions PSA would be 8x normal....and so on....

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

Not so sure about your statement above, because I suffered from BPH and prostatitis for some 20 years and my PSA score was always below one!! And my prostate has always been small, and still is,  so the correlation between BPH and prostate size just doesn't add up for me.

 

In addition, others have mentioned about PSA levels and what should be done about them, however it's important to note that taken as an individual score, it means not a lot at all – – it has to be viewed in light of any inflammation or any infection of the urinary tract, the size of the prostate when measured by a DRE, any pain or noticeable growth in size of the prostate and any quick rise in PSA scores.

 

Sexual activity just prior to a PSA test can mean that it elevates slightly and as I said above, inflammation or infection of the prostate will also lead to a higher PSA score.

 

Just yesterday I had a PSA test done and for as long as I can remember my score was under one, however yesterday it was just under 10. Cause for alarm you may well think, but I have a UTI due to catheter use and in my opinion and that of the specialist I saw, that will certainly increase the PSA score, so keeping an eye on how that score progresses over the course of some antibiotics I am on is important.

 

Follow-up appointment scheduled in one weeks time however I would think that my best bet would be to get another PSA test done in about two weeks to a month.

 

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16 hours ago, xylophone said:

Not so sure about your statement above, because I suffered from BPH and prostatitis for some 20 years and my PSA score was always below one!! And my prostate has always been small, and still is,  so the correlation between BPH and prostate size just doesn't add up for me.

 

In addition, others have mentioned about PSA levels and what should be done about them, however it's important to note that taken as an individual score, it means not a lot at all – – it has to be viewed in light of any inflammation or any infection of the urinary tract, the size of the prostate when measured by a DRE, any pain or noticeable growth in size of the prostate and any quick rise in PSA scores.

 

Sexual activity just prior to a PSA test can mean that it elevates slightly and as I said above, inflammation or infection of the prostate will also lead to a higher PSA score.

 

Just yesterday I had a PSA test done and for as long as I can remember my score was under one, however yesterday it was just under 10. Cause for alarm you may well think, but I have a UTI due to catheter use and in my opinion and that of the specialist I saw, that will certainly increase the PSA score, so keeping an eye on how that score progresses over the course of some antibiotics I am on is important.

 

Follow-up appointment scheduled in one weeks time however I would think that my best bet would be to get another PSA test done in about two weeks to a month.

 

Good luck and hope you kill off that UTI very soon. Let us know how you get on.

 

BTW my friend tells me that the insertion of his catheter at Bangkok Hospital was painful every time but in UK was painLESS. Not sure why that would be.

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2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Good luck and hope you kill off that UTI very soon. Let us know how you get on.

 

BTW my friend tells me that the insertion of his catheter at Bangkok Hospital was painful every time but in UK was painLESS. Not sure why that would be.

Thanks for your concern LannaGuy, much appreciated and sure when I have my next appointment in a week's time, I'll let you know how I get on.

 

I can't say that the catheter insertion is completely painless, however I would describe it as sometimes a little uncomfortable rather than painful, depending upon what is happening in the urethra and prostate. For the moment because mine is inflamed, it's not as easy as it used to be and if I'm doing it five or six times a day, it's surely going to aggravate the situation HOWEVER the use of pain relieving gel called Xylocaine helps tremendously.

 

I can only assume that your friends experience at the Bangkok Hospital was due to a couple of things, namely incorrect use or lack of use of the Xylocaine (or equivalent) and an inexperienced nurse. Of course if his urethra was inflamed, that would also be a consideration.

 

Here's hoping that the catheter use will only be for a short period of time to enable me to train the bladder again and from then on I will have to keep a close eye on my frequency of urination to ensure that I'm not holding too much back, which then can set off the cycle again!

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On 5/9/2017 at 3:26 PM, cheeryble said:

When starting to worry about a.high PSA it's important to know that the one thing PSA mirrors most accurately is the size of the prostate. So if you have BPH....as I do.....and your prostate is just 50% wider in each dimension one can expect a PSA higher than normal by 1.5x1.5x1.5......over three times normal. Obviously for double dimensions PSA would be 8x normal....and so on....

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

Sorry to quote you twice, and no malice intended, however you do mention PSA and BPH in the one quote as well as the size of the prostate, so that brings me onto another point.............

 

As I said in a previous quote of mine, my prostate never increased in size despite two specialists determining that I had BPH, this as well as having a low PSA score??

 

Well BPH is a general term, under which several other conditions occur. Firstly it's important to know that the word "hyperplasia" means an abnormal increase in cells so although some folks prostates can certainly increase in size looking at the outside dimensions, it's also possible that the cell growth occurs within the prostate, and most specifically around the bladder neck, causing bladder neck obstruction (B00), indeed one of the internal lobes can grow into the lower bladder causing an obstruction.

 

Technically of course it is known as BPH, however that does not mean to say that the prostate necessarily becomes enlarged externally. To try and visualise it, imagine a small doughnut (yes the ones with the holes in the middle) and whilst the external size of the doughnut stays the same, the bit in the middle where the hole is actually decreases in size due to growth........ not the best analogy, but may serve the purpose here.

 

PSA tests may or may not be an indicator of anything serious if taken as a sole marker and likewise BPH may not necessarily increase a PSA reading, or it may! It is my opinion that the reason why the medical profession in some areas rails against PSA tests is because there are so many other indicators and it is not reliable on its own.

 

In addition the next action is often a needle biopsy which can be painful and can have some serious side-effects and again may not even pick up cancer if it is there. So you can see why some medical professionals are not keen on going down this route. However new tests, including an MRI or PET scan are pointing the way towards less invasive methods of detecting cancer of the prostate as well as producing clearer/better results.

 

It's a complicated subject and some aspects of which even the medical profession are still baffled by and indeed during some of my research into this condition and especially prostatitis, one eminent surgeon, part of a practice of surgeons specialising in the prostate, called it something like, "a scientific/medical wasteland".

 

From my perspective and in summary, a yearly PSA test along with a DRE as well as noting any "adverse symptoms" with regards to my lower urinary tract and associated functioning would encourage me to seek further investigation via an MRI scan, but I certainly would not go down the route of a needle biopsy..............

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Thanks Xylophone.
Was your prostate measured by ultrasound?



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12 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

Thanks Xylophone.
Was your prostate measured by ultrasound?



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Actually I didn't ask this time, but will do on my follow up visit on Monday........having said that it has always been 30 ml or thereabouts if my memory serves me well, and just about every specialist has commented; "you have a small prostate".

 

However that may well have been said in the context of them looking for signs of BPH and not finding any outward sign??

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