Intellectual Whore

[amykat]

18 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Please let me try and answer you in a direct, respectful and logical way:

 

Firstly, one group of older Western women may have decided, along with their partners or husbands, to relocate to Thailand as they're sick to death of developments in their home countries. Many may be newly retired and have savings for exactly that, and early retirees  may have benefited from capital gains after selling their property.  Life being life, inactivity and the price of booze here might have meant they were widowed earlier than they might have expected or, worse still,  the husband might have succumbed to younger, more exotic charms! Rare, I believe, but it does happen.

I agree with you situations can change for the worse. Western women can find themselves widowed and suddenly living alone in this foreign land. But again you are generalising men by bringing booze and women into the picture. You older western women seem to have an obsession about this. I must tell you this really irritates me and if that`s your general opinion then you are an expat I would not want to befriend or even be acquainted with.

 

Being Western, and having been brought up to be kind and supportive to neighbours and those in trouble or grief, newly single Western women might not want to return to the country they left because they hated it when they left and hated it even more since they've become used to living here. However, expecting any kindness, friendship, support etc, seems to be a waste of time if this thread is an example of responses to genuine concerns. The shock of rejection can result in even more misery.

When I was living in England unlike the good old days my neighbours rarely spoke with each other, most kept to themselves, the community spirit had long gone. One good reason I have no wish to return. If expats are finding themselves being rejected here then they have to ask themselves; is it them and their attitudes that are making them seem unapproachable? Or the old cleshay, it`s not me, it`s all the others?

 

The general opinion of the majority of posters on this thread seems to be that those of us in that situation should immediately go back where we came from, leaving our homes, maybe our pets and any chance of getting a new life in a familiar, warm, inexpensive  location.

Again more nonsense. The realistic opinions are, that for the western women who find it difficult to adapt and accept that the lifestyles in Thailand are different to that of their home countries are not going to find fulfillment and happiness in Thailand. They can either stay and suffer in silence or make the most of it and look for the best, not the worse in people.   

 

As regards single women who decide to come to Thailand for whatever reason, including a dislike of the countries of their birth, why should they not be able to have a circle of friends and acquaintances of both sexes? Female independence is a relatively new phenomenon, could it possibly be that the male contingent here resents womens' freedoms to do what they've done? To me it says a lot about the quality of male expats here nowadays - sad, because  when I first came here over 10 years ago, the community was a great deal different.

Why shouldn`t western women have a circle of friends of both sexes? Why not indeed, what`s stopping you, want`s your problem? Surely you are not blaming expat men for creating set backs in your life? Maybe subconsciously you are expecting more from the men than just friendships, in need of a full blown relationship and even if you are only seeking acquaintances or just friends, ask your self, could it be your own attitudes that are holding you back? Especially as you seem to have such low opinions of the men folk here.

 

One more point - today's global village is open to all, including women with 50 or so years behind them who've raised their children, had a career, perhaps  been divorced and decided to make a new life in a very different country. If they don't know Thailand, it's too easy to believe the hype and give it a try. 

That sounds like a warning to western women not to believe that Thailand is not all it`s cut out to be, meaning you`re not happy here that takes me back to my original question, what do you expect to get out of living here and what actually are you seeking for yourself in Thailand? Do you want to be solitary and independent? Do you prefer to have a social life and a circle of people around you? Or would you rather be in a relationship? Or is it how it seems on reading some of these ladies posts, that they are seeking fulfillment, but are confused and don`t really know what they want?

 

I would like you to read this:

Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of manipulation through persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying in an attempt to destabilize and delegitimize a target. Its intent is to sow seeds of doubt in the targets, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.[1][2] Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. The term owes its origin to Gas Light, a 1938 play and 1944 film, and has been used in clinical and research literature.[3][4]

 

I realize you aren't lying but you are doing everything else and so are other people in this thread when some women try to tell you their experiences.

 

You are telling her everything is her fault, her problem, her mistake, her responsibility, her bad everything!! You are denying her perceptions and reality.  You don't know her!! She might look like Marilyn Monroe and be the most charming and intelligent woman known to exist.  Yet you will tell her these things and try to make her feel terrible.  Why? Because that makes you feel good about yourself?  Just like a poster above  ..a sensible one whose name I cannot see right now, posted about.  We know there are many men here with low self- esteem and that is what makes you the way you are. People with high self-esteem don't act that way. 

 

If you have high self-esteem and some empathy you would try to help a person who wrote something like her story.  You would not be afraid to make eye contact with me in Rimping and say hello to me.  If you were a guy at her moobaan you would insist that she join you for drinks and entertain her with witty banter and not banish her to the Thai area!!  You would stop by her house on occasion and see if she needed any help with anything.

 

Instead take a look at yourself and what you are doing.

 

 

 

 

 

[SoiBiker]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

Not at all -- it applies to men equally.

 

How does that mean it's not mansplaining?

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, SoiBiker said:

 

How does that mean it's not mansplaining?

man·splain

manˈsplān/

verb

informal

gerund or present participle: mansplaining

(of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

[SoiBiker]

Just now, jpinx said:

man·splain

manˈsplān/

verb

informal

gerund or present participle: mansplaining

(of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

 

Indeed. Doesn't really answer the question I asked you, though. 

[jpinx]

Just now, SoiBiker said:

 

Indeed. Doesn't really answer the question I asked you, though. 

It might be more appropriate to find out why you think it *is* mansplaining.   

It refers to both genders and all manner of nationalities and cultures and colours. How can you tell if i am a man?  Why is it condescending? What makes it patronising?  Answers on a postage-paid postcard please :)

 

 

[jpinx]

Just now, Paruk said:

And what is the word for the typical way women talk down to men? Irrational exuberance?

Don't ask me - I was responding to someone else using it.  I had to look it up in Google !!  haha!! 

[SoiBiker]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

It might be more appropriate to find out why you think it *is* mansplaining.   

It refers to both genders and all manner of nationalities and cultures and colours. How can you tell if i am a man?  Why is it condescending? What makes it patronising?  Answers on a postage-paid postcard please :)

 

 

 

You seem pretty keen to avoid answering the question. 

[amykat]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

 

 

Believe me.. You dont.. 

 

I wouldnt for a second presume to think I knew 'every single thing' about another genders experiences.. Yet you do. Which sums up a lot. 

 

Well I guess you think we are creatures from other planets??  What kind of things do you discuss when out for a night socially that you think I don't know anything about?  Of course I don't have to tell you things, I can just listen, but I am quite sure there is nothing you have done here that would surprise me or shock me. I also know quite a lot of practical things about many subjects.  Maybe you would know more if you had more women friends.  Maybe I am not typical and would surprise and shock the hell out of you!!

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, amykat said:

 

Well I guess you think we are creatures from other planets??  What kind of things do you discuss when out for a night socially that you think I don't know anything about?  Of course I don't have to tell you things, I can just listen, but I am quite sure there is nothing you have done here that would surprise me or shock me. I also know quite a lot of practical things about many subjects.  Maybe you would know more if you had more women friends.  Maybe I am not typical and would surprise and shock the hell out of you!!

This is turning into a pissing contest -- 

[amykat]

5 minutes ago, jpinx said:

This is turning into a pissing contest -- 

 

 

Didn't I say I like male friends??

 

[SoiBiker]

Some of you guys show a remarkable lack of self-awareness. 

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, amykat said:

 

 

Didn't I say I like male friends??

 

Be that as it may - it comes across that the conversation in here is not between friends

[amykat]

Well not because of me!!

 

I mean ...obviously it isn't between friends.  But what I am trying to promote here?  What are these particular posters doing but needlessly attacking me?  They don't even know what they are doing ...attacking me for not being specific and talking about individuals when I am talking about general people.

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

Some of you guys show a remarkable lack of self-awareness. 

Generic guys? Male guys? It's a challenge to know anything about anyone in a public forum since it affords the benefit of only exposing that part of you which causes you least discomfort :)

 

In any case - the situation appears to be desperate - if the postings are anything to go by.  I hope they find some comfort in venting in here and will now get a good nights sleep

[jpinx]

14 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Well I guess you think we are creatures from other planets??  What kind of things do you discuss when out for a night socially that you think I don't know anything about?  Of course I don't have to tell you things, I can just listen, but I am quite sure there is nothing you have done here that would surprise me or shock me. I also know quite a lot of practical things about many subjects.  Maybe you would know more if you had more women friends.  Maybe I am not typical and would surprise and shock the hell out of you!!

 

2 minutes ago, amykat said:

Well not because of me!!

 

Really???  The way that is written is far from friendly

[jeffcool]

on the light side to cheer up  a bit the topic.....

 

Guardian: Stephen Hawking claims he finds women 'a complete mystery'

Stick to trying to work out blackholes Stephen it's far <deleted> easier.....

 

and finally.....

 

We had a power cut at home last night so, instead of a night of TV, the wife and I spent the time chatting.

It was a real eye opener - I'm off to buy a back-up generator today.

 

[jpinx]

6 minutes ago, amykat said:

Well not because of me!!

 

I mean ...obviously it isn't between friends.  But what I am trying to promote here?  What are these particular posters doing but needlessly attacking me?  They don't even know what they are doing ...attacking me for not being specific and talking about individuals when I am talking about general people.

I missed your edit

Talking about "general people" is just confusing, since such a person does not exist.  We are all different and need to be treated on an individual basis.  To not do so is a slight on our individual personality and maybe what is causing some confusion in here...

 

[Shoeless Joe]

As Bill the Bard wrote...."Much Ado About Nothing"

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[cyberfarang]

19 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

I would like you to read this:

Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of manipulation through persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying in an attempt to destabilize and delegitimize a target. Its intent is to sow seeds of doubt in the targets, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.[1][2] Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. The term owes its origin to Gas Light, a 1938 play and 1944 film, and has been used in clinical and research literature.[3][4]

 

I realize you aren't lying but you are doing everything else and so are other people in this thread when some women try to tell you their experiences.

 

You are telling her everything is her fault, her problem, her mistake, her responsibility, her bad everything!! You are denying her perceptions and reality.  You don't know her!! She might look like Marilyn Monroe and be the most charming and intelligent woman known to exist.  Yet you will tell her these things and try to make her feel terrible.  Why? Because that makes you feel good about yourself?  Just like a poster above  ..a sensible one whose name I cannot see right now, posted about.  We know there are many men here with low self- esteem and that is what makes you the way you are. People with high self-esteem don't act that way. 

 

If you have high self-esteem and some empathy you would try to help a person who wrote something like her story.  You would not be afraid to make eye contact with me in Rimping and say hello to me.  If you were a guy at her moobaan you would insist that she join you for drinks and entertain her with witty banter and not banish her to the Thai area!!  You would stop by her house on occasion and see if she needed any help with anything.

 

Instead take a look at yourself and what you are doing.

 

 

 

 

 

I am from England, have no problems whatsoever, not with myself or anyone else. I am alright for money, I`m not into politics, I`m not into religion, I am not sexist, I am not a racialist, I have a long term Thai girlfriend, (we are both of similar age) in our early 60s, some say I should marry her but I`m considering that at the moment. I have no wish to stray off and go with other women although I do have both male and female people in my circle of friends, I don`t drink, I do smoke on occasions and lead a simple life. Sometimes I like to go out and let my hair down a bit with some mates and most times I am content to be at home and just potter about. I`ll talk with anyone me and that`s because I am generally a liker of people. So I have looked at myself and what I am doing and like what I see. I consider myself as just an average normal guy acting no different here as to have I behaved in England.

 

But when I first came to Thailand I felt like a fish out of water and eventually I created a lifestyle for myself here, because no one was going to come and knock on my door and say hi; please come and join us.  But sorry to say you seem to display a great discontentment with your life and with those around you and I find what you are saying as rather depressing and maybe that`s how you come across to other people and really I am only giving you my honest opinion, I am not being personal.

 

 

[amykat]

1 hour ago, Paruk said:

Well, I'm a grown up man I'd like to think and had quite some good looking girlfriends back in the EU for longer and sometimes shorter periods. I just got sick and tired of their twisting and turning, insane expectations (have a top dog man in an top executive position that still has the time to do the dishes, cook and wash the car in the weekends AND take care of the children she got from previous relations), blablabla. Exactly why I puked the Western women out and unexpectedly found a top woman right here in Thailand! If it weren't for here, I would have become celebetair or a monk.

 

The Thai ladies (not all, unfortunately! But my wife does.) still have some sense of the natural difference between man and woman and the benefit this brings in a relation. Women have certain qualities that are female and absolutely necessary in live. Men have certain qualities that are male and absolutely necessary in live. In a good relation both join and share these qualities to the benefit of both. Here in Thailand I also see a lot of women doing business, most places are run by women! I find that emancipation is a normal fact here without any fuzz about it. Of course, not all is perfect but is that even possible?

 

So, please take your disdain for men and shove it. Who the hell you think you are? Some divine creature we poor suckers of men have to worship?

 

I was going to agree with and like your post, until I got to the end.  I don't know what you are talking about ..I think you thought the person you quoted is a woman and it is a man, first of all.  But this just shows how some of you overreact and take things personally. What he said about men in Thailand was true ... for SOME MEN HERE ...he wasn't talking about YOU.  If you know you are not one of those men, then you know that!!  How can you be insulted??

 

What you said about your previous life and the relationship you were in ...and what you like now ...I can understand that. I don't think just because I am a woman, that all women you were ever with, were correct and you were the <deleted>.  So I wanted to like this ...

[buddhalady]

52 minutes ago, amykat said:

Well not because of me!!

 

I mean ...obviously it isn't between friends.  But what I am trying to promote here?  What are these particular posters doing but needlessly attacking me?  They don't even know what they are doing ...attacking me for not being specific and talking about individuals when I am talking about general people.

Amy, let's face it, what we're reading here  is exactly what happens in just about every other TV forum topic which involves the real world!

Guys getting their rocks off by dissing females is so 20th century - sorry, did I mean 19th........

[JimmyJ]

Like so many other things,  technology is making "Intellectual Whore" no longer necessary:

 

https://tinyurl.com/6v8qdvj

 

 

[amykat]

3 hours ago, Chicog said:

 

Please don't play the bullying card, that's pathetic.

I'll remind you of your own words; frankly you're full of it and I'd say that regardless of your gender:
 

 yes according to the great Chicog there is a ban imposed:  One must never call shit ..shit ...you must call it roses when he does it!!!

[FolkGuitar]

Nine pages, 207 posts, and we still don't have a clue what the original poster was trying to say. We get the impression that she is upset about something that she labels "feeling like an Intellectual Whore." We've seen definitions of 'Intellectual Whore,' but those have nothing what so ever to do with the situation she described. We've seen page after page of women accusing men of mistreatment and generalization. We've seen page after page of men accusing women of mistreatment and generalization. And we STILL have no idea of what the original poster was trying to say that started it all.

It's been an interesting thread, but for me, it's starting to bog down. Without the OP to tell us what she REALLY wanted, I think I'm getting bored listening to repeated supposition and accusation. I've had enough. I'll be back if the OP clarifies her stance.

[SoiBiker]

I thought the OP's point was fairly clear. The use of the word 'whore' seems a little inappropriate for the scenario she describes and a touch overly emotive, but other than that I'm not sure why so many have a problem with her post. 

 

 

[amykat]

55 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

I am from England, have no problems whatsoever, not with myself or anyone else. I am alright for money, I`m not into politics, I`m not into religion, I am not sexist, I am not a racialist, I have a long term Thai girlfriend, (we are both of similar age) in our early 60s, some say I should marry her but I`m considering that at the moment. I have no wish to stray off and go with other women although I do have both male and female people in my circle of friends, I don`t drink, I do smoke on occasions and lead a simple life. Sometimes I like to go out and let my hair down a bit with some mates and most times I am content to be at home and just potter about. I`ll talk with anyone me and that`s because I am generally a liker of people. So I have looked at myself and what I am doing and like what I see. I consider myself as just an average normal guy acting no different here as to have I behaved in England.

 

But when I first came to Thailand I felt like a fish out of water and eventually I created a lifestyle for myself here, because no one was going to come and knock on my door and say hi; please come and join us.  But sorry to say you seem to display a great discontentment with your life and with those around you and I find what you are saying as rather depressing and maybe that`s how you come across to other people and really I am only giving you my honest opinion, I am not being personal.

 

 

 

Well, since I have told you nothing about my life or how I spend my time, or anything at all, I don't know how you could conclude that?  Who is around me? Where do I live, what do I look like, how old am I?  I told you that many men here are sexist. That exists in the whole world. Is this news to you?  That exists on this forum and in Thai expat circles in abundance due to the fact that there are many more men than women here, that certain kinds of men, with a certain goal in mind have chosen to come here, etc.

 

If you feel so proud of yourself for being a self-starter, and only getting by with a Thai wife, maybe you could appreciate a female who gets by with no Thai partner, in a male dominated  and foreign society?  I did not complain about my social life or anything at all actually.  You have no idea what life I have "created" for myself here. ..yet you feel content to judge me and think you know me because I have defended women here today.

 

You have told several women how they are screwing up also and are coming across to other people in the manner you think I am.  Maybe you are not very perceptive?  Maybe you should get out more?  Why don't you try to help others?  Write the woman who is a widow and ask her to dinner with you and your g/f?  She is from your country ..introduce her to your friends.  Don't just sit here writing crap all day and insulting the rest of us, show us you can do something positive and then get back to us???

[cyberfarang]

9 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

Nine pages, 207 posts, and we still don't have a clue what the original poster was trying to say. We get the impression that she is upset about something that she labels "feeling like an Intellectual Whore." We've seen definitions of 'Intellectual Whore,' but those have nothing what so ever to do with the situation she described. We've seen page after page of women accusing men of mistreatment and generalization. We've seen page after page of men accusing women of mistreatment and generalization. And we STILL have no idea of what the original poster was trying to say that started it all.

It's been an interesting thread, but for me, it's starting to bog down. Without the OP to tell us what she REALLY wanted, I think I'm getting bored listening to repeated supposition and accusation. I've had enough. I'll be back if the OP clarifies her stance.

My interpretation of the message the OP is trying to get across, is that Farlang men want to use her only in an intellectual capacity because she`s a Farlang and in that respect they just see her as a person to be able to relate to better than their Thai partners, sort of using her to fulfill a need of conversation in their own language, but she expects more than that, rather wanting them to perceive her as a woman not just another Farlang who has past their feminine desirability. And my guess is this is probably why these aging Farlang women in Thailand seem to have a bee in their bonnet.

 

If I`m wrong the OP can put me straight on this.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

I thought the OP's point was fairly clear. The use of the word 'whore' seems a little inappropriate for the scenario she describes and a touch overly emotive, but other than that I'm not sure why so many have a problem with her post.

 

I'd second your sentiment. I was reading assorted follow-up posts here sporadically -- without having read the OP -- and began wondering what the heck this thread was actually about. So, I finally went back and read the OP, and like you, think the OP poster was pretty clear in her sentiments.

 

On that score, speaking as a man, I'm sure that it's NOT easy for single farang women to live on their own in Thailand. Having been a member and contributor here for some years, I'd certainly agree that there seems to be a fair degree of expressed negative sentiment against farang women in general by some contributors to ThaiVisa, and presumably at large in our little piece of the world here. If those kinds of generalizations were being directed at my group/identity, I'm sure I wouldn't appreciate it.

 

As for the "intellectual whore" issue, although I think that's a debatable term for what's being described, I think I can understand the situation where farang men living here perhaps with Thai wives and families, at some point, feel the need to share and exchange views with someone from a similar background to their own, men or women.  But for me personally, while there's lots of things there'd simply be no point in trying to talk about with my Thai wife, I don't seem to feel the need to seek out others as a replacement/substitute.

 

Just witnessing and being an occasional part of the written thrusts and parrys here is more than enough for me for a refresher course on western things.

 

 

[cyberfarang]

17 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

Well, since I have told you nothing about my life or how I spend my time, or anything at all, I don't know how you could conclude that?  Who is around me? Where do I live, what do I look like, how old am I?  I told you that many men here are sexist. That exists in the whole world. Is this news to you?  That exists on this forum and in Thai expat circles in abundance due to the fact that there are many more men than women here, that certain kinds of men, with a certain goal in mind have chosen to come here, etc.

 

If you feel so proud of yourself for being a self-starter, and only getting by with a Thai wife, maybe you could appreciate a female who gets by with no Thai partner, in a male dominated  and foreign society?  I did not complain about my social life or anything at all actually.  You have no idea what life I have "created" for myself here. ..yet you feel content to judge me and think you know me because I have defended women here today.

 

You have told several women how they are screwing up also and are coming across to other people in the manner you think I am.  Maybe you are not very perceptive?  Maybe you should get out more?  Why don't you try to help others?  Write the woman who is a widow and ask her to dinner with you and your g/f?  She is from your country ..introduce her to your friends.  Don't just sit here writing crap all day and insulting the rest of us, show us you can do something positive and then get back to us???

After seeing some of the comments made by women on this thread, if I wrote to women I hardly or don`t know asking them to join me and my girlfriend for an evening out or to our house, they would probably have me arrested for being a sex crazed stalker or accusing me of inviting them to join my girlfriend and I in a threesome, considering their opinions of Farlang men on here. I`m not prepared to take that risk, but in fact I am an extrovert and have done exactly what you say, have a great circle of Thai and Farlang friends. I actually go out there, meet people and how I`ve met and made friends over the years, believe it or not, not in bars and none of my female friends are bargirls. 

 

I am very proud of my life achievements, how I have created a happy and comfortable lifestyle for myself in a country I love living in. Providing I can remain in reasonable health, then as far as I`m concerned, I have it all, made my life`s ambitions into a reality.  Truly, even though I`m older now, I`ve never been happier in my life that is because I always look on the positive side and stay clear of negative people.

[amykat]

I think the OP isn't coming back. The thread was closed for a reason. It was reopened because there was interest in this general topic for other people. She made her points and she is finished as far as I know.  She seems to be new here so she has things to learn and experience as we all did and do.  I think you guys should leave her alone now.

 

I've been trying to make some points for the general good of expat women here, who might be isolated, and maybe for some men here who might have some wrong impressions of us ...or don't think it about it all, or who attack Nancy, or whatever.

 

I have often heard men say they feel afraid to approach women here, based on how they were treated at home (not welcome).  I have also heard them say they feel that they are judged, negatively, for being with young Thai women.  (That we hate that, we are jealous, we think other various things ...that I have never thought).

 

Maybe you have never noticed how women posters have been treated on the forum because you are not keeping track and are not sensitized to it, so I also mentioned that.  It is much, much better than it used to be.  It also is somewhat subject dependent.  Some women are still disguised as men here.

 

Things for you to think about.