Gripen Fighter Jet Crashes at Hat Yai Air Show, Pilot Killed

[currynamnam]

12 hours ago, hobz said:

This swedish piece of shit has a history of crashing during these show events.

In fact, if i recall correctly it crashed on its first public show in stockholm many years ago.. Pilot ejected and survived that time.

Expensive piece of shit

Yes, it did, I was there with 10' other, many of us said simeltainiously.... Oh shit, the copilot bailed out...2 seconds later from ex fighter pilot...no guys, this is a singleseater.

However,  there is hardly any hightech aerialfighting contraption that's been flawless in its trials, the Gripen had quite a few, but that's been the case with most new systems.

Expensive.... In comparison with what.... Me 109? 

[hawker9000]

15 hours ago, mick220675 said:

I do not understand why on a day for children the military have to get so involved. I have just returned from a event in our local town, lots of fun things for the kids to do and then solders with M16 rifles. 

 

Kids love airshows (which usually involve military as well as civilian flyers & aircraft, BTW).  They love rollercoaster rides.  And lions & tigers & bears in zoos.  And auto races.  And swimming.  Etc, etc., etc...

 

Planes crash, rollercoasters malfunction, animals get out of their enclosures, cars overturn, people drown.   It's called life.  Not always tragedy-free.  You can't stop lightning strikes.   Understand now? 

 

Competently managed airshows have a "flight line", and the spectating crowds are kept back from it during the flight events.

[F4UCorsair]

13 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

So sad.  inaintenance.........not ThadhereSn to in LOS 

The Investigating Board of Enquiry will want to hear from you!!  You know the cause even before the fire Is extinguished.

 

It didn't seem, to me, that there was sufficient altitude for the technology to take over, roll upright,  level the wings and recover.  That can't me done from a few hundred feet.

 

There has been so much uninformed comment on this Incident.

 

There's scorn been poured on the fire truck crew.  Remember the fire truck driving over , and killing, a  SURVIVOR of the Asiana B777 crash In San Francisco a few years back?  Yep, post crash accidents occur even In the USA!!  Believe It or not.

 

More 'opportunities' for the bashers of all things Thai to air their tiresome views emerge In almost every thread.

[pmugghc]

38 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

The Investigating Board of Enquiry will want to hear from you!!  You know the cause even before the fire Is extinguished.

 

It didn't seem, to me, that there was sufficient altitude for the technology to take over, roll upright,  level the wings and recover.  That can't me done from a few hundred feet.

 

There has been so much uninformed comment on this Incident.

 

There's scorn been poured on the fire truck crew.  Remember the fire truck driving over , and killing, a  SURVIVOR of the Asiana B777 crash In San Francisco a few years back?  Yep, post crash accidents occur even In the USA!!  Believe It or not.

 

More 'opportunities' for the bashers of all things Thai to air their tiresome views emerge In almost every thread.

 

The amount of Thai bashing, racist comments is staggering!

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

When have they ever put the blame of an air crash on foreigners ? Please supply a link.

My Mrs was telling me engine failure, but looking at the video and listening I do not think so.

Rather an ambitious maneuver attempted.

[freethinker]

17 hours ago, hobz said:

This swedish piece of shit has a history of crashing during these show events.

In fact, if i recall correctly it crashed on its first public show in stockholm many years ago.. Pilot ejected and survived that time.

Expensive piece of shit

 

Incidents per flight hour makes it one of the safest Jets in production. 

For the record several Thai pilots have died flying F16's previously. These things happen when you fly fighter jets. It's a dangerous job. 

[F4UCorsair]

19 minutes ago, freethinker said:

 

Iancidents per flight hour makes it one of the safest Jets in production. 

For the record several Thai pilots have died flying F16's previously. These things happen when you fly fighter jets. It's a dangerous job. 

Without over dramatizing It, fighter pilots accept the possibility of death In their aircraft as a part of their jobs, and that's even before any combat!!!.

 

The excitement experienced is a trade off they are willing to make.

 

Component/aircraft/engine failure doesn't appear to be the Issue, so perhaps pilot incapacitation may be a real possibility??

 

We're all guessing as to the real cause though, and the Board of Inquiry will come up with as close to the real cause as they are able without the benefit of Flight Data and Voice Recorders.

[freethinker]

8 hours ago, bubba said:

 

That's what I suggested earlier - G force induced loss of control (G-LOC). If you look at the video, he is in an almost a 90° roll and pulls up hard, initiating a roll he couldn't handle. From the vapour you can see over the wings at that point, this means the aircraft was developing a lot of lift, thus Gs. There was plenty of time to eject, indicating he may have been unconscious. Apparently, this aircraft was not equipped with an Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto-GCAS), as are some modern fighters, and that would saved him by getting out of the situation, levelling his wings and climbing, even if he was unconscious.

 

I believe the Jas 39 C/D Version 20 has Auto-CGAS.

[F4UCorsair]

20 minutes ago, freethinker said:

 

I believe the Jas 39 C/D Version 20 has Auto-CGAS.

 

I just took a look at the second video on page 1, and it's possible it was a Split S attempt, but if so, waaaay too low.  Evidence of that is that during the pull through, the pilot may have attempted to roll out of the half loop, and instead of heading in the opposite direction to which he was flying prior to the manouvre (English spelling!), continue in the same direction.   That the manouvre wasn't completed may indicate disorientation, but I don't think he would have had sufficient altitude to complete it anyway.  Without disorientation, ejection could have been effected.

 

My understanding is that an Immelman is a climbing manouvre, and a Split S is a descending one.  It appeared he rolled inverted and pulled through, then had second thoughts about his altitude, so rolled 180 degrees again, but didn't have sufficient altitude to recover.  Disorientation, incapacitation or panic are possibilities, with panic the least likely.

 

The BoI will tell us all, hopefully.

[rodney earl]

The military was involved because this place is run by a military jaunta and they like to show off their wares whenever they can. 

[The Deerhunter]

19 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Subliminal message to future adults. 

Absolutely.  Know we are always watching you. Ever present and observing even your very thoughts, like Buddha: (or God or Allah).

[The Deerhunter]

54 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

I just took a look at the second video on page 1, and it's possible it was a Split S attempt, but if so, waaaay too low.  Evidence of that is that during the pull through, the pilot may have attempted to roll out of the half loop, and instead of heading in the opposite direction to which he was flying prior to the manouvre (English spelling!), continue in the same direction.   That the manouvre wasn't completed may indicate disorientation, but I don't think he would have had sufficient altitude to complete it anyway.  Without disorientation, ejection could have been effected.

 

My understanding is that an Immelman is a climbing manouvre, and a Split S is a descending one.  It appeared he rolled inverted and pulled through, then had second thoughts about his altitude, so rolled 180 degrees again, but didn't have sufficient altitude to recover.  Disorientation, incapacitation or panic are possibilities, with panic the least likely.

 

The BoI will tell us all, hopefully.

If someone muffed the fueling or maintenance or it was pilot error we may never be told.TIT.

 

[Argus Tuft]

3 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

The Investigating Board of Enquiry will want to hear from you!!  You know the cause even before the fire Is extinguished.

 

It didn't seem, to me, that there was sufficient altitude for the technology to take over, roll upright,  level the wings and recover.  That can't me done from a few hundred feet.

 

There has been so much uninformed comment on this Incident.

 

There's scorn been poured on the fire truck crew.  Remember the fire truck driving over , and killing, a  SURVIVOR of the Asiana B777 crash In San Francisco a few years back?  Yep, post crash accidents occur even In the USA!!  Believe It or not.

 

More 'opportunities' for the bashers of all things Thai to air their tiresome views emerge In almost every thread.

Well written, F4UCorsair....  Thank you.

[KOZMO]

For sure two things.  One he blacked out because his roll out was not smooth and two appeared to be too close to the ground to complete the manuver !!!

 

If this was a Demo Team like we have in America for the new jets, might need more attention to the "G" Factor !!!

 

RIP sorry for the family and the kids who witnessed it !!!  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

56 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

If someone muffed the fueling or maintenance or it was pilot error we may never be told.TIT.

 

 

I don't recall the Thai military -- or the civilian aviation authorities -- having a history of publicly reporting/disclosing why military aircraft have been involved in crash incidents, i.e., formal crash investigation reports.

[F4UCorsair]

1 hour ago, The Deerhunter said:

If someone muffed the fueling or maintenance or it was pilot error we may never be told.TIT.

 

 

A lot of military flying crashes are pilot error, but remember they are often flying right on the edge of the envelope, a situation in which crews of civilian aircraft seldom find themselves.

[apalink_thailand]

21 hours ago, bubba said:

Looked to me like he was attempting to do an Immelmann Turn, but lost it as he was completing the inside of the top half of the loop. There does not appear to have been any loss of power. At that point in the loop, aviators can experience 6 - 9 Gs, so I am wondering whether he greyed out at that point, didn't roll out and the aircraft continued on without controlled flight. 

 

 Possibly but it looked to me like he was doing a barrel roll and got halfway through the manoeuvre and for some reason pulled back on the stick, nosing into the ground. Not enough G’s being pulled at that stage for a blackout/greyout IMO. I am thinking either mechanical failure or, as the RTP would conclude....suicide.

[F4UCorsair]

18 hours ago, wvavin said:

Its utterly useless to own the most advance fighter jet with no REAL QUALIFIED people and enough funds (too many brown envelopes passing around) to maintain it. Finally, the pilot bear the brunt! Sad.

 

How can you possibly draw those conclusions???   No REAL QUALIFIED people??   No maintenance due to brown envelopes??

 

You're training pilots in the RTAF???

[jimmyyy]

Prayers to the pilot and his families


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[Tallviking]

This was the first ever fatal crasch in a JAS 39 Gripen

[camsouth]

21 hours ago, bubba said:

Looked to me like he was attempting to do an Immelmann Turn, but lost it as he was completing the inside of the top half of the loop. There does not appear to have been any loss of power. At that point in the loop, aviators can experience 6 - 9 Gs, so I am wondering whether he greyed out at that point, didn't roll out and the aircraft continued on without controlled flight. 

 

Here is an F-16 doing an Immelmann correctly.

 

 

 

RIP to the aviator.

 

It was also a 64M euro aircraft loss for the RTAF.

i agree looks like he grayed out and the move was to low no time to recover if you do gray out where the 16 had plenty of space. all about training

 

 

[SpokaneAl]

Sad. I am relieved to see no other injuries or deaths. A few years ago I attended the Children's Day air show at Korat and was surprised to see the aircraft fly directly over the crowd. This year I watched them practice their close formation drills over the local communities. After previous accidents most western countries forbid that type of flying.


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[mick220675]

7 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

 

Kids love airshows (which usually involve military as well as civilian flyers & aircraft, BTW).  They love rollercoaster rides.  And lions & tigers & bears in zoos.  And auto races.  And swimming.  Etc, etc., etc...

 

Planes crash, rollercoasters malfunction, animals get out of their enclosures, cars overturn, people drown.   It's called life.  Not always tragedy-free.  You can't stop lightning strikes.   Understand now? 

 

Competently managed airshows have a "flight line", and the spectating crowds are kept back from it during the flight events.

 

I understand now I must have been stupid, the next time there is a car/motorbike crash on the road I will take my kids to look at the blood and guts on the road now I know they will love it.

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, jimmyyy said:

Prayers to the pilot and his families


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Prayers for sure sorry no do overs in life. Interesting speculations. Doubt if the truth will ever be known. Lesson to be learned life is short whether your a young lad like this pilot or those of us TV speculators who caught a break in life and arrived safe and sound in 2017. I guess for us life is truly a miracle. 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

If someone muffed the fueling or maintenance or it was pilot error we may never be told.TIT.

 

 

Do you have any idea of how many people are involved in refueling and checking the status of the fuel. I will give you a clue.

 

1  the guy that actually does the refuel and he is told the fuel load required.

2  the guy in the flight office who checks that it has been done correctly BEFORE the aircraft is released to the pilot

3  the pilot checks the fuel load even before he starts the engine.

 

That is 3 separate people.

 

As for maintenance there is

 

1  the guy that actually does the job

2  the line supervisor who checks him

3  the ops engineer who checks that the work has been done and signed for

4  the guy in air ops who allocates the aircraft and check that ALL outstanding work has been completed and signed for

5  the pilot who checks the aircraft logbook before he even gets to the aircraft and does his his walkround and preflight checks.

 

That is 5 separate people and the pilot relies on the ground techs for his life so he will be as careful if not more so than the techies.

 

If you have no idea what you are talking about, why bother to speculate or comment?

[JohanB]

5 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

I just took a look at the second video on page 1, and it's possible it was a Split S attempt, but if so, waaaay too low.  Evidence of that is that during the pull through, the pilot may have attempted to roll out of the half loop, and instead of heading in the opposite direction to which he was flying prior to the manouvre (English spelling!), continue in the same direction.   That the manouvre wasn't completed may indicate disorientation, but I don't think he would have had sufficient altitude to complete it anyway.  Without disorientation, ejection could have been effected.

 

My understanding is that an Immelman is a climbing manouvre, and a Split S is a descending one.  It appeared he rolled inverted and pulled through, then had second thoughts about his altitude, so rolled 180 degrees again, but didn't have sufficient altitude to recover.  Disorientation, incapacitation or panic are possibilities, with panic the least likely.

 

The BoI will tell us all, hopefully.

 

Reminds me of this accident: https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/2016/09/14/

 

But as you said the pilot seams to try to abort the split-s when he understands there is not height enough to fulfill it.

Besides beginning altitude, air temperature and density can have been a contributing factor.

[ExpatOilWorker]

7 minutes ago, JohanB said:

 

Reminds me of this accident: https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/2016/09/14/

 

But as you said the pilot seams to try to abort the split-s when he understands there is not height enough to fulfill it.

Besides beginning altitude, air temperature and density can have been a contributing factor.

 

" The F-16 was valued at $20.4 million. "

 

It was earlier mentioned that Thailand paid $70  million for each of the Gripen jets. Are they really 3.5 times more expensive than a F16?

[muzmurray]

On 1/14/2017 at 0:22 PM, arrowsdawdle said:

The FAA recently rated Thailand aviation as not meeting international standards, so this happening before the ink is even dry on the FAA warning flies in the losing face of country reputation. Poor pilot had no chance.

 

That rating is about civilian air carriers, nothing to do with the military.

 

You have no idea on whether the pilot had a chance or not - remember the Red Arrows pilot who stayed with his jet to steer it to a "safe" place to crash? He died trying to ensure that he caused as little damage on the ground as possible.

[muzmurray]

23 hours ago, bubba said:

 

 

Almost new. First deliveries began in 2013.

 

In 2007, Thailand's Parliament authorized the Royal Thai Air Force to spend up to 34 billion baht (US$ 1.1 billion) as part of an effort to replace Thailand's existing Northrop F-5 fleet.^[199] In February 2008, the Thai Air Force ordered six Gripens (two single-seat C-models and four two-seat D-models) from Saab; deliveries began in 2011.

[billd766]

2 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

That rating is about civilian air carriers, nothing to do with the military.

 

You have no idea on whether the pilot had a chance or not - remember the Red Arrows pilot who stayed with his jet to steer it to a "safe" place to crash? He died trying to ensure that he caused as little damage on the ground as possible.

 

Ignore him.

 

The only thing he knows is never to miss a chance to bash Thailand and the Thai people whenever he gets the chance.