If you were in charge of immigration...

[YeahSiam]

9 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

From what I can understand you have to pull your pants down and check your bony posterior. If your posterior hurts when you sit in a chair your definitely an economic migrant. May he overlooked the fact that one has to have 800,000 bahts seasoned here in the bank to stay. We were not able to program the stork that dropped us off in the west lucky for us. It was the luck of the draw. 

 

Wow, 800K and not only that; it has to be "seasoned" too.

Wow again

Mate, that's GBP20,000; hardly a grand sum.

and yes, you're an economic migrant.

[elgordo38]

1 minute ago, YeahSiam said:

 

Wow, 800K and not only that; it has to be "seasoned" too.

Wow again

Mate, that's GBP20,000; hardly a grand sum.

and yes, you're an economic migrant.

better than being economically ignorant I guess. 

[meatboy]

seems we have an argue-mental member in our midst.

[YeahSiam]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

Would you like to explain YOUR definition of a real expat to us all?

 

OK, I'll bite

While the term "expatriate" can be widened to encompass anyone who lives outside their home country, it's most commonly used to define those who live in another country in a professional capacity - as in working

 

The fact is that we are migrants in the same way that foreigners who move to our home countries are migrants.

The term "expatriate" has romanticised connotations and is associated with words like "pioneering", "adventurous"

The term "migrant" has negative connotations and the Western man couldn't possibly live with a negative label like that.

 

A white man moves to a "brown" country and is described as an "expatriate" even though his reasons for moving are almost always tied up in affordability.

A brown man moves to a "white" country and is described as an "immigrant" even though he may be a skilled professional.

 

If you're here to stretch a pound or whatever Western currency your income is denominated in, you're an economic migrant.

If you're here to work in a professional capacity, you're an expatriate.

 

[YeahSiam]

12 minutes ago, meatboy said:

seems we have an argue-mental member in our midst.

 

Seems some don't know when to just butt out and admit they didn't know what the discussion was about.

[Momofarang]

On 20/01/2017 at 10:21 AM, YeahSiam said:

 

I think we can all agree that Thailand is something of a magnet for the scum of the West.

It seems the country is the go-to destination when murderers, fraudsters, paedophiles and other lowlife want to disappear or distance themselves from law enforcement in their own countries.

Most other Southeast Asian countries don't have this problem to the same degree as Thailand.

 

Consequently, the Thai authorities obviously feel that they need to know where long-stay foreign nationals are.

If people over 70 are too frail or whatever to do those 90 day reports, they can do them online instead of making the pilgrimage to the local immigration office.

Every foreigner living long-term in Thailand knew the rules governing ongoing stay in the Kingdom when they were granted their visa or extension of stay.

People can't turn around and expect the government to change the rules just because satisfying that criteria becomes an inconvenience.

 

Hate to say it but, if you dislike it that much, move to a country that has immigration rules that don't force you out of your recliner for an afternoon.

Well that's exactly why I am thinking of taking my whole little family to Malaysia, and visit here from time to time. IMHO all the the rules here have one aim: make you feel unwanted. Friendly staff in my Immigration office doesn't let me overlook the petty(corny) rules. When I immigrated to Australia, they stamped my passport, applied for a few return endorsements, when going overseas, and, 4 years later I was Australian...

[Naam]

59 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

So, with respect, who gives a shit...

what you are excreting?

[Deepinthailand]

As this topic has been derailed enough will place it back on topic.

Another thing I would do is to have a central help line set up manned by English speakers maybe even employ a few Expats ect. To give advise on immigration matters. 

[YeahSiam]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

what you are excreting?

 

Whatever it is, it doesn't smell anywhere near as bad as yours, Naam

[Momofarang]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Actually, it is only 3 times a year in most cases.

 

90 day reporting is an unnecessary pain in the ar5e.

 

For anyone who has had, say, 3 consecutive extensions the 90 day reporting should be waived. The system is there for change of address reporting by the alien and the housemaster.

Streamlining and integrating processes, sharing information between functions, could result in staff reductions. 

[YeahSiam]

18 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

Well that's exactly why I am thinking of taking my whole little family to Malaysia, and visit here from time to time. IMHO all the the rules here have one aim: make you feel unwanted. Friendly staff in my Immigration office doesn't let me overlook the petty(corny) rules. When I immigrated to Australia, they stamped my passport, applied for a few return endorsements, when going overseas, and, 4 years later I was Australian...

 

Fair enough.

It's enough of a pain in your ass to justify shipping out so that's what you're doing.

I wish more would follow your example instead of carping on about it and insisting the Thais don't want us here when the reasons for what seems like the pettiness of the requirements are well-known and accepted by so many of them.

[billd766]

54 minutes ago, YeahSiam said:

 

OK, I'll bite

While the term "expatriate" can be widened to encompass anyone who lives outside their home country, it's most commonly used to define those who live in another country in a professional capacity - as in working

 

The fact is that we are migrants in the same way that foreigners who move to our home countries are migrants.

The term "expatriate" has romanticised connotations and is associated with words like "pioneering", "adventurous"

The term "migrant" has negative connotations and the Western man couldn't possibly live with a negative label like that.

 

A white man moves to a "brown" country and is described as an "expatriate" even though his reasons for moving are almost always tied up in affordability.

A brown man moves to a "white" country and is described as an "immigrant" even though he may be a skilled professional.

 

If you're here to stretch a pound or whatever Western currency your income is denominated in, you're an economic migrant.

If you're here to work in a professional capacity, you're an expatriate.

 

 

So that means in my 50 year working life I was an expat in 35 different countries ranging from 2 or 3 weeks to over 4 years at a time. Most of the time my salary was paid in my home country and I only brought enough money into whichever country I was working in to pay my living costs and did not necessarily pay local taxes.

 

No I am NOT here to stretch my Western currency but to live with and support my Thai wife and our son. I haven't lived full time in my home country since 1992.

 

In addition to that because of living in Thailand retired and full time I am actually a NON Immigrant according to the Thai Immigration Office who issue my retirement extension of my NON Imm O visa.

[YeahSiam]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

 

So that means in my 50 year working life I was an expat in 35 different countries ranging from 2 or 3 weeks to over 4 years at a time. Most of the time my salary was paid in my home country and I only brought enough money into whichever country I was working in to pay my living costs and did not necessarily pay local taxes.

 

No I am NOT here to stretch my Western currency but to live with and support my Thai wife and our son. I haven't lived full time in my home country since 1992.

 

In addition to that because of living in Thailand retired and full time I am actually a NON Immigrant according to the Thai Immigration Office who issue my retirement extension of my NON Imm O visa.

 

Technically, you're only a "non-immigrant" in that you've not been granted indefinite leave to remain, citizenship or permanent residence but to all intents and purposes, you are an immigrant.

Your status as an expatriate over the last 50 years doesn't enter into it.

 

In any case, you asked me to give my definition of a real expatriate - that's what I did.

Don't take it personally just because I used the word, "you" or "you're".

 

You'd be better off de-stigmatizing the word "immigrant" or "migrant" rather than clinging to hierarchical labels you think elevate you above your counterparts who move to the US, Europe etc to be with their families or to improve their lives.

[dick dasterdly]

14 hours ago, YeahSiam said:

 

I've addressed all your feeble arguments clearly.

People who are working generally spend more than those who are retired on fixed incomes - that's a fact.

If the statement of that fact constitutes an "attack" in your book then I think  you'd better crawl back under the duvet because it's not safe out here in the real world.

 

Don't worry, though......I'll leave the light on

Ignoring the fact that (I think - but could be wrong) that there aren't many thousands of foreigners here earning over 80,000 bht a year - it also has to be remembered that there are probably a similar number of non-working, extremely wealthy foreigners living here, spending just as much - if not more.

 

It also has to be remembered that us 'lowly' retired expats only having a minimum income of 65,000 bht per month to spend - bring NEW money into Thailand, rather than re-circulating existing Thai money - as is the case with most of those working here.

[dick dasterdly]

If I was in charge of Immigration - I'd change the rules to suit my biases, as per way too many posts on this thread !

[YeahSiam]

39 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Ignoring the fact that (I think - but could be wrong) that there aren't many thousands of foreigners here earning over 80,000 bht a year - it also has to be remembered that there are probably a similar number of non-working, extremely wealthy foreigners living here, spending just as much - if not more.

 

It also has to be remembered that us 'lowly' retired expats only having a minimum income of 65,000 bht per month to spend - bring NEW money into Thailand, rather than re-circulating existing Thai money - as is the case with most of those working here.

 

You are wrong.

There are many thousands of foreigners working here on much more than 80K a month.

There may be many "extremely wealthy" foreigners living here but most of them won't be pensioners.

Most pensioners move here to stretch a buck - nothing wrong with that but they should stop kidding themselves that they're a central pillar of the Thai economy - sorry but you're just not that important.

 

There are far more of you "lowly" expats who park that 800K in a Thai bank to qualify for their visa/extension of stay but live on pensions of less than 20 or 25K a month.

800K is nothing - even at today's significantly lower exchange rate to most Western currencies.

20-25K a month is nothing -it's less than GBP500 or USD700 a month.

 

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, meatboy said:

seems we have an argue-mental member in our midst.

They pop up from time to time no sense getting upset or let them get under your skin. Our strength is diversity. I had rough edges on me to at one time. The hands of time tend to minute blast them away. 

[ThaiWai]

On 1/20/2017 at 11:59 AM, possum1931 said:

It is confusing because what is a "bad guy"? Different people have different interpretations of them. ie if someone pays a visa company so much for a retirement visa because he does not want to leave 800.000Bt in his bank account, does that make him a bad guy?

 

 

 

I'm not exactly sure I am following you but it sounds like you are implying that people are able to circumvent the 800,000 baht requirement by paying an agent to bribe immigration.  I was unaware this was an option yet not completely naive to the way things work here.  If I am wrong I apologize but no, I do not consider that a bad guy.  I consider that someone conforming to an accepted standard to circumvent an antiquated or unfounded requirement a normal guy.  If someone can articulate exactly how not having 800,000 baht in the bank for 3 months hurts Thailand I might be inclined to change my mind.  So I guess we have identified my level of accepted corruption.  You are absolutely correct that definitions mean everything.  When I say bad guy, I mean people working illegally, pedo's, people who commit crimes in Thailand, people who are wanted for criminal acts in other countries and the like.  I do not consider missing a 90 day report  or failing to make an address change notification a high crime worthy of deportation not to say there are.  Overstays on the other hand should be escorted out of the country.  It is a privilege to visit a foreign country it is not a right to take up residence there without adhering to the requirements.  When the overstay crackdown happened here not long ago there where many outspoken TV members on both sides.  The overstayers mostly taking the position that the penalty was not high enough to force them to comply with the law.  When the penalty changes to blacklisting suddenly they cried foul.  The reality is that there would have never been a greater penalty imposed if people had not abused the previous standard.  United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart once said "I can't define obscenity but I know it when I see it". I think the same can be said of a "bad guy".

[meatboy]

14 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

If I was in charge of Immigration - I'd change the rules to suit my biases, as per way too many posts on this thread !

yes DD that was the topics question,there are tooooooooooooo many arguementive posts that has derailed the topic and its plain to see where they are coming from,so come on MR/MRS MOD lets have it back on track OR CLOSE IT.

meatboy a non arguementive TAFF.

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

 

I'm not exactly sure I am following you but it sounds like you are implying that people are able to circumvent the 800,000 baht requirement by paying an agent to bribe immigration.  I was unaware this was an option yet not completely naive to the way things work here.  If I am wrong I apologize but no, I do not consider that a bad guy.  I consider that someone conforming to an accepted standard to circumvent an antiquated or unfounded requirement a normal guy.  If someone can articulate exactly how not having 800,000 baht in the bank for 3 months hurts Thailand I might be inclined to change my mind.  So I guess we have identified my level of accepted corruption.  You are absolutely correct that definitions mean everything.  When I say bad guy, I mean people working illegally, pedo's, people who commit crimes in Thailand, people who are wanted for criminal acts in other countries and the like.  I do not consider missing a 90 day report  or failing to make an address change notification a high crime worthy of deportation not to say there are.  Overstays on the other hand should be escorted out of the country.  It is a privilege to visit a foreign country it is not a right to take up residence there without adhering to the requirements.  When the overstay crackdown happened here not long ago there where many outspoken TV members on both sides.  The overstayers mostly taking the position that the penalty was not high enough to force them to comply with the law.  When the penalty changes to blacklisting suddenly they cried foul.  The reality is that there would have never been a greater penalty imposed if people had not abused the previous standard.  United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart once said "I can't define obscenity but I know it when I see it". I think the same can be said of a "bad guy".

Excellent post ThaiWai, and I agree with it, but there is nothing wrong with breaking any laws if they are victimless and you don't agree with them, that does not make you a bad guy, you must look after yourself first, and you do have to take some chances in life. Yes, I would say that people working illegally, and deliberately overstaying are bad guys because the Thai government just punishes the good guys by making them jump through more hoops instead of tracking down the illegal workers, and heavily fining the people who employ them. The "C" word pops up again.

[meatboy]

10 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

 

I'm not exactly sure I am following you but it sounds like you are implying that people are able to circumvent the 800,000 baht requirement by paying an agent to bribe immigration.  I was unaware this was an option yet not completely naive to the way things work here.  If I am wrong I apologize but no, I do not consider that a bad guy.  I consider that someone conforming to an accepted standard to circumvent an antiquated or unfounded requirement a normal guy.  If someone can articulate exactly how not having 800,000 baht in the bank for 3 months hurts Thailand I might be inclined to change my mind.  So I guess we have identified my level of accepted corruption.  You are absolutely correct that definitions mean everything.  When I say bad guy, I mean people working illegally, pedo's, people who commit crimes in Thailand, people who are wanted for criminal acts in other countries and the like.  I do not consider missing a 90 day report  or failing to make an address change notification a high crime worthy of deportation not to say there are.  Overstays on the other hand should be escorted out of the country.  It is a privilege to visit a foreign country it is not a right to take up residence there without adhering to the requirements.  When the overstay crackdown happened here not long ago there where many outspoken TV members on both sides.  The overstayers mostly taking the position that the penalty was not high enough to force them to comply with the law.  When the penalty changes to blacklisting suddenly they cried foul.  The reality is that there would have never been a greater penalty imposed if people had not abused the previous standard.  United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart once said "I can't define obscenity but I know it when I see it". I think the same can be said of a "bad guy".

what i have understood regarding the money in the bank is,if the person doesnt have it,then an agent will lend the 800,000bht.to be deposited in their bank for the period of time.

so when the extension is done it becomes obvious to the IO.this is whats been done hence the tea money.

when i do my extension they srutinize my bank accs. 1 fixed acc.that hasnt been touched for 4yrs.then they ask me what i live on

proof provided.if the above is illegal practice then the bad guy must qualify and the agent.

so once again the QUESTION if you were in charge what would you DO.

[tomaway]

After 5 Non O visa valid for 1 year, you could be granted a 5 years Non O visa....

After 2 Non O visa valid for 5 years, you could be granted a 10 years Non O Visa...

 

Just to make long terme expat feeling welcomed and also ease their life while they are growing old.

 

I am not yet 40 but I can't really imagine visiting the imigration every year and not being 100% sure, for the rest of my life, that the my Visa will be or not granted.  

 

Just dreaming few seconds.... after 10 years married, or after having kids with a Thai woman, being allow to buy up to 400 sqm to built your little house.... 

 

Stop the off topic, stop dreaming and back to prepare paperwork for the Visa.... 

[ThaiWai]

11 hours ago, meatboy said:

what i have understood regarding the money in the bank is,if the person doesnt have it,then an agent will lend the 800,000bht.to be deposited in their bank for the period of time.

so when the extension is done it becomes obvious to the IO.this is whats been done hence the tea money.

when i do my extension they srutinize my bank accs. 1 fixed acc.that hasnt been touched for 4yrs.then they ask me what i live on

proof provided.if the above is illegal practice then the bad guy must qualify and the agent.

so once again the QUESTION if you were in charge what would you DO.

 

If I was in charge I would drop the retirement age requirement completely, eliminate the seasoning period for the Thai deposit but raise the amount to 1 million and keep the monthly income requirement the same as an option.  

[Deepinthailand]

5 minutes ago, ThaiWai said:

 

If I was in charge I would drop the retirement age requirement completely, eliminate the seasoning period for the Thai deposit but raise the amount to 1 million and keep the monthly income requirement the same as an option.  

So a 18 year old could retire here them. I also belive in dropping the seasoning of monies just have to have it on the day you apply. But increasing to 1m why people will just borrow it for the day.

[ThaiWai]

Just now, Deepinthailand said:

So a 18 year old could retire here them. I also belive in dropping the seasoning of monies just have to have it on the day you apply. But increasing to 1m why people will just borrow it for the day.

 

People are already borrowing the money for seasoning so 1 day or 3 months doesn't really impact anyone.  A year would be effective but totally unfair. .  Your claim 1 million in cash is easy to get but I am not sure everyone would agree.   Yes, 18 year olds should be able to retire here if they have the required income or funds.  Once adulthood is reached any age limit is age discrimination and has no bearing on someones net worth

[Deepinthailand]

2 minutes ago, ThaiWai said:

 

People are already borrowing the money for seasoning so 1 day or 3 months doesn't really impact anyone.  A year would be effective but totally unfair. .  Your claim 1 million in cash is easy to get but I am not sure everyone would agree.   Yes, 18 year olds should be able to retire here if they have the required income or funds.  Once adulthood is reached any age limit is age discrimination and has no bearing on someones net worth

1 m is easy to get hold of it will cost you a high intrest rate even for just a day but can be done. Plus visa agents would do it no problem again it would cost.

I wasn't on about age discrimination but 18 even with required funds is a joke. 40 is a good bench mark.

[ThaiWai]

Just now, Deepinthailand said:

1 m is easy to get hold of it will cost you a high intrest rate even for just a day but can be done. Plus visa agents would do it no problem again it would cost.

I wasn't on about age discrimination but 18 even with required funds is a joke. 40 is a good bench mark.

 

Why is 18 a joke but 40 better?

[Deepinthailand]

5 minutes ago, ThaiWai said:

 

Why is 18 a joke but 40 better?

Beacuse what does an 18 year old know what life skills has he got. Wouldn't stand much of a chance in thailand. Imo of course. And 40 was a typo 50 is what I meant as it is now.

[NoshowJones]

"What if you were in charge of immigration".  Now Soi Biker, how about you telling us what you would do.

Many of us posters have had our say in this topic, which of course you started. Now it's your turn.

[Chip Allen]

A firing squad comes to mind. Why do you need immigration in Thailand when the people who want to relocate here have more money than the general population? If that were the case in the USA, they  would be rolling out the red carpets.