Phuket dive instructor crackdown may have ‘terminal effect’, warns industry representative

[rooster59]

Phuket dive instructor crackdown may have ‘terminal effect’, warns industry representative 

The Phuket News

 

Phuket dive instructors arrested for teaching at locations other than at their employer’s office address could kill off many small dive shops, ATUS warned. Photo: Tanyaluk Sakoot
 

PHUKET: The Association of Thailand Underwater Sports (ATUS) has warned that further arrests of Phuket dive instructors for teaching at locations outside work permit regulations could kill off many businesses in the island’s booming dive industry.

 

“I received complaints from several instructors that they were fined a lot of money for breaching this condition, even if they have a legal instructor’s licence. Some of them are giving up and closing their shops,” Ratanapon Promchu, Manager of the Phuket-based ATUS office, told The Phuket News.

 

“If this condition continues to be strictly enforced, it could have a terminal effect on Phuket’s scuba diving industry and hurt Phuket’s overall tourism reputation,” she added.

 

The warning follows a spate of arrests of dive instructors for using swimming pools at other dive companies, or teaching in the sea, as their employing company did not have pools at their places of business.

 

Among the slew of complaints received by The Phuket News about the arrests were recurring reports that passports and work permits were being withheld even after a court-levied fine had been paid.

 

Allegations surfaced that officials were looking for cash contributions of a consistent sum of B35,000 before they would return the passports and work permits. )See story here.)

 

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-dive-industry-moves-against-police-arrests-alleged-shakedowns-60536.php

 

Those allegations have yet to be responded to by officials.

 

Full story: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-dive-instructor-crackdown-may-have-terminal-effect-warns-industry-representative-60815.php#tCkHvFjbWsx3jU5d.97

 

 

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2017-01-28

 

 

[visarunner]

TIT, killing any golden egg

[steve187]

Why should they be any different to any other foreign worker, work where the work permit says.

[ExpatOilWorker]

21 minutes ago, steve187 said:

Why should they be any different to any other foreign worker, work where the work permit says.

I wonder what is specified in a pilots work permit?

 

If any realtor have work permits, which I doubt they have, do they then have to list every property they may or may not visit in the foreseeable future?

 

How can the models that was asked to get work permits last year know where they will  shoot every single picture a year in advance?

 

Is a CEO that answer his mobile phone outside the office breaking the law?

[jaiyen]

I haven't dived in Phuket for years cos its crap ! Nothing worth seeing. I hope they all get closed down and the sea and sealife has a chance to recover. Ban the fishing boats too.  They wont do that though, will they ? Cant milk them for more money.

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

See story here.

"... were recurring reports that passports and work permits were being withheld even after a court-levied fine had been paid .... Allegations surfaced that officials were looking for cash contributions of a consistent sum of B35,000 before they would return the passports and work permits."

Seems corruption never takes a holiday or a dive.

[Krataiboy]

Phuket dive instructor crackdown may have ‘terminal effect’, warns industry representative 

 

Better to kill off a few dodgy diving outfits than more tourists.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, jaiyen said:

I haven't dived in Phuket for years cos its crap ! Nothing worth seeing. I hope they all get closed down and the sea and sealife has a chance to recover. Ban the fishing boats too.  They wont do that though, will they ? Cant milk them for more money.

Off topic, nonsense rant.

 

I don't see any diveshops closing over this BTW.

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Off topic, nonsense rant.

 

I don't see any diveshops closing over this BTW.

 

I'm asking out of curiosity, not to suggest this is happening.   Is there anything suspicious about the timing here?  Have some Thai owned dive shops opened up?

 

We hire pro divers and do some in-the-water safety training (oilfield) and I found the Thai divers to be excellent and the Thai instructors to be top notch.  I would imagine they'd be looking for a bigger piece of that segment of the tourism pie as their numbers grow.  Especially since it's slim pickin's in the oilfield this year.

[stevenl]

29 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I'm asking out of curiosity, not to suggest this is happening.   Is there anything suspicious about the timing here?  Have some Thai owned dive shops opened up?

 

We hire pro divers and do some in-the-water safety training (oilfield) and I found the Thai divers to be excellent and the Thai instructors to be top notch.  I would imagine they'd be looking for a bigger piece of that segment of the tourism pie as their numbers grow.  Especially since it's slim pickin's in the oilfield this year.

No, nothing like that. The only issue about the timing is that they tend to do it before weekends/holidays, forcing the instructors caught to make a decision: either go to court and spend a few days in jail first or pay up and get out in an hour. On normal weekdays it would be just one day in jail.

[impulse]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, nothing like that. The only issue about the timing is that they tend to do it before weekends/holidays, forcing the instructors caught to make a decision: either go to court and spend a few days in jail first or pay up and get out in an hour. On normal weekdays it would be just one day in jail.

 

So, just being all around nice guys, eh?

[laocowboy2]

3 hours ago, steve187 said:

Why should they be any different to any other foreign worker, work where the work permit says.

Because unless instruction takes place in water (a swimming pool at the very beginning and then in the sea) it is of very limited use. And the result of pooir or inadequate instruction is all too often death.

[steve187]

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I wonder what is specified in a pilots work permit?

 

If any realtor have work permits, which I doubt they have, do they then have to list every property they may or may not visit in the foreseeable future?

 

How can the models that was asked to get work permits last year know where they will  shoot every single picture a year in advance?

 

Is a CEO that answer his mobile phone outside the office breaking the law?

i didn't say its work permits are correctly issued or they should not be a looser description of 'place of work' i said why should thingd be different for diving instructors 

[the guest]

No, it will just mean Thais will replace the foreigners, which I imagine is why there is a crackdown. 

[StefanBBK]

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I wonder what is specified in a pilots work permit?

 

If any realtor have work permits, which I doubt they have, do they then have to list every property they may or may not visit in the foreseeable future?

 

How can the models that was asked to get work permits last year know where they will  shoot every single picture a year in advance?

 

Is a CEO that answer his mobile phone outside the office breaking the law?

It just shows that work permits limitation on location are not practical. Same goes for teachers at football games with different schools.... 

[stevenl]

No, it will just mean Thais will replace the foreigners, which I imagine is why there is a crackdown. 

No.

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[NamKangMan]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Off topic, nonsense rant.

 

I don't see any diveshops closing over this BTW.

 

 

"I don't see any diveshops closing over this BTW." - probably not, but "tea money" may be increasing, and that's what it's all about. 

 

 

[Psimbo]

48 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

"I don't see any diveshops closing over this BTW." - probably not, but "tea money" may be increasing, and that's what it's all about. 

 

 

Oh, the Hokey Kokey, oh, the Hokey Kokey, in , out, in out....................................,  

[RedQualia]

10 hours ago, jaiyen said:

I haven't dived in Phuket for years cos its crap ! Nothing worth seeing. I hope they all get closed down and the sea and sealife has a chance to recover. Ban the fishing boats too.  They wont do that though, will they ? Cant milk them for more money.

 

The Similan Islands have certainly gone down hill over the past few decades. Yes... Too many divers out there, but not really their fault so much as the endless line of fishing boats dragging their nets through the waters, scooping up everything and anything, all day, every day. Not so many big fish out there as before. I've no interest in diving there, but really, not much interest in diving anywhere around Thailand. The last time I got on a boat in Pattaya, it was shallow dives only with student divers. One of whom was tremendously excited about having actually seen a fish! (Singular.) Appears one must go pretty far for really good diving in SE Asia these days. Palawan's OK, though there's lots of fishing there as well. Sipadan is worth visiting as well. Perhaps more so, since there's actually conservation going on there. Vietnam? Can only speak to Nha Trang, where lots of fishing boats were anchored in the marine preserve. I saw zero fish there over the course of three days.

[lvr181]

The "industry representative" sees his/her income going down and therefore thinks (as do many others) that work permit conditions should be ignored? 

[jonclark]

Fake news?

Only last Thursday when the corruption index rankings were released the PM stated the drop to position 101 was unfair as all corruption was in the past. 

 

This clearly in light of the venerable PM comments is fake news...right?

[lvr181]

13 minutes ago, jonclark said:

Fake news?

Only last Thursday when the corruption index rankings were released the PM stated the drop to position 101 was unfair as all corruption was in the past. 

 

This clearly in light of the venerable PM comments is fake news...right?

 

Ostrich with head in sand comes to mind if that was the PM's comments. And if there is no head in the sand, then it must be too difficult to see the forest for the trees?

[futsukayoi]

16 hours ago, steve187 said:

Why should they be any different to any other foreign worker, work where the work permit says.

 

Because for many if not most jobs people are not chained to their desk and have to perform at least some of their services elsewhere.  I know of swimming and paddle board instructors who teach in the sea or at various pools. Some Yoga teachers and language teachers offer classes at peoples home or work place.  Chefs buy stuff at markets and shops or occasionally cook for functions on the beach or elsewhere. Real estate and villa management staff show properties, do check ins, visit prospective clients or perform other services outside their office.  Working here for an IT software and consultancy company I often had to go to clients sites or do presentations at hotels.  People are doing business development for a huge range of companies which usually requires getting out and about.  I would also bet many people occasionally send e-mails, texts, phone people or do a bit of documentation when not in the registered place of work. I understand at least one local airline has been hiring local pilots.  Going to be interesting to perform their duties if they must remain in one fixed location.

 

Pretty much any foreigner working here would be a criminal under this idiotic Phuket interpretation of the law.

[futsukayoi]

12 hours ago, the guest said:

No, it will just mean Thais will replace the foreigners, which I imagine is why there is a crackdown. 

 

No it will not.  I know a couple of dive operations that make big efforts to get Thai Instructors including funding their dive training and certification costs (not sure about equipment).  They get very few takers as a large proportion of Thais cannot swim and many do not have adequate foreign language ability.  Of course that means foreign Instructors who have funded their own training are cheaper and therefore not all operations are so keen.

[Old Croc]

This is not a crackdown. It is plain and simple thievery by corrupt officials trying to recoup the high level bribes they had to pay to buy their jobs in the first place. It's the system.

This industry is being targeted because they are high profile, have big turnovers and are easy to locate at pools and jetties.

 

.

[Phuketboy]

Could be a case of pushing foreign instructors out to make way for Thai instructors.  I have dived a lot around Thailand and some of the Thai instructors are actually quite good.  As for holding passports.  Rule number 1 is never ever give anyone your passport.  From my understanding and what I was told by the Australian Embassy, it is also illegal for anyone to keep your passport.  Your passport does not belong to you, it belongs and remains the property of the Government of your country.  Should anyone take your passport, apply for a new one.  At least that is what I was told from Embassy staff.  Now I have 2 as I have duel citizenship....always good to have a backup.  

[zaphod reborn]

23 hours ago, steve187 said:

Why should they be any different to any other foreign worker, work where the work permit says.

Because it's an antiquated regulation. A lot of Thai labor law was created in the days when everyone worked in factories or on farms. Obviously, things have changed. What about sales and marketing people who work in the field? What about IT workers who need to visit client sites? What about telecommuters and digital nomads?  It's a stupid regulation which has no purpose.

[steve187]

2 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

Because it's an antiquated regulation. A lot of Thai labor law was created in the days when everyone worked in factories or on farms. Obviously, things have changed. What about sales and marketing people who work in the field? What about IT workers who need to visit client sites? What about telecommuters and digital nomads?  It's a stupid regulation which has no purpose.

I understand all that, but my question still remains unanswered '' Why should they be any different to any other foreign worker''

[stevenl]

Could be a case of pushing foreign instructors out to make way for Thai instructors.  I have dived a lot around Thailand and some of the Thai instructors are actually quite good.  As for holding passports.  Rule number 1 is never ever give anyone your passport.  From my understanding and what I was told by the Australian Embassy, it is also illegal for anyone to keep your passport.  Your passport does not belong to you, it belongs and remains the property of the Government of your country.  Should anyone take your passport, apply for a new one.  At least that is what I was told from Embassy staff.  Now I have 2 as I have duel citizenship....always good to have a backup.  

As said by me and others here, no.

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[stevenl]

I understand all that, but my question still remains unanswered '' Why should they be any different to any other foreign worker''

Did you read post #28?

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