happyas Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, smedly said: and you are 100% wrong, they are extremely powerful and extremely dangerous and should not be rented out to people that have not had proper training, it is exactly the same as renting a big bike to someone who suddenly thinks they have turned into Valentino Rossi overnight and has never put their leg over anything bigger than a bicycle (or perhaps even a scooter for a few days) - they will be given the keys to a superbike and off they go. I would attribute reckless driving to someone that has experience and training and causes an accident through reckless behavior were they would/should have been fully aware of the dangers - in that instance "yes" it could be argued they were irresponsible and fully to blame https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_watercraft-related_accidents No, i'm not 100% wrong at all...be rational mate. You are getting hysterical..As i said a"jetski " is not dangerous PER SE..Agree? No more than your superbike comparison, or a 44 magnum revolver , or a supercar are dangerous per se. How are they "dangerous? Sitting there, doing nothing, until some novice wanna bee decides to use one or other They simply are NOT dangerous in their being. They can become dangerous , as i said, only because of the "nut behind the wheel" ie a living person, who has decided that he can operate such equipment in a safe manner even though he has absolutely no or little previous experience in doing so. Yes? For crying out loud, these were not school kids, they were two adults who had the nous and ability to decide to come away on holiday together and sadly ,like so many others before them left their brains at the airport [to use an oft quoted expression]. Old enough to fly alone, old enough to drink in a bar, old enough to vote, and more than old enough to make their own minds up whether or not to hire a jetski, without having to be told otherwise. PS also i have not seen anything to suggest that they were in fact novices in jetski use. They may well have been, but i have not seen this mentioned. As much as i have sorrow for the guy, it does appear ,that by his high speed riding and not "seeing" his girlfriend because of the sun, he is 100% at blame for her death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishman1 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Are u kidding an accident I think he has suffered enough hope he gets a Good Lawyer and his embassy can help him out Let the Lad go home TIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryjohns Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, smedly said: and you are 100% wrong, they are extremely powerful and extremely dangerous and should not be rented out to people that have not had proper training, it is exactly the same as renting a big bike to someone who suddenly thinks they have turned into Valentino Rossi overnight and has never put their leg over anything bigger than a bicycle (or perhaps even a scooter for a few days) - they will be given the keys to a superbike and off they go. I would attribute reckless driving to someone that has experience and training and causes an accident through reckless behavior were they would/should have been fully aware of the dangers - in that instance "yes" it could be argued they were irresponsible and fully to blame https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_watercraft-related_accidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyas Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 17 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said: Are u kidding an accident I think he has suffered enough hope he gets a Good Lawyer and his embassy can help him out Let the Lad go home TIT No, im not kidding, about his being culpable, because he is 100%. If, perchance, it was not his g/f that was killed by his unattention and reckless behaviour, but was for instance, your child, or close friend, i bet you would be very reticent to make the same comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, happyas said: No, im not kidding, about his being culpable, because he is 100%. If, perchance, it was not his g/f that was killed by his unattention and reckless behaviour, but was for instance, your child, or close friend, i bet you would be very reticent to make the same comment. Guess you ain't the adventurous type then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyas Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, transam said: You've never been to sea in/on a small sea craft then... Well, i have and the poster you are replying to is correct. If you are being picky, then, sure a huge difference between being in fog and having the sun ,low in the sky detracting from your vision BUT he is 100% correct in what he said ie " IF you can't see, slow the f down. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyas Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, transam said: Guess you ain't the adventurous type then.... Huh?? Whats the relevance here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 18 hours ago, Thaiwrath said: That's all he needs, after the tragic death of his partner. Its the same as driving a car. If your perception changes i.e. sunshine blinding you you slow down or stop. Sadly he was 22 the preening age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 17 hours ago, Thian said: Why not charge all the idiots who drive jetski's along a busy beach? Or the captains of longtailboats who go full speed over the Chao Praya with a load of tourists onboard? If they charge him it will be all over the Western newspapers for a while...up to them. And they should also charge the Thai who drive like idiots. He is low hanging fruit with his mind in turmoil a perfect target for "justice" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The law is you must have a license to ride/drive a jet ski If the people in power insisted on this law being obeyed by the jet ski vendors with a 10,000 baht fine for nor complying, they jet ski"s would be gone from the beaches very quickly Same applies to renting out motorbikes to people who do not have a license to ride one which is over 90% of the renters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citzofwrld Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I've been a avid boater and jet skier for many years in the U.S. Plenty of idiots on both. And, sometimes, bad things happen, even when careful and following laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 19 minutes ago, happyas said: Huh?? Whats the relevance here? There are a zillion sports out there that have a risk element attached...Jet skies are one....Every sport that has a risk attached the user/participant understands that or should... Back home at the drag strip on fun days we had to sign a disclaimer as it was a dangerous sport.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhys Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 rip how sad and on vacation in thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdgbb Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 17 hours ago, pookiki said: The whole incident is very sad and unfortunate. Under the laws in the US, any act that results in the death of another person will lead to minimal charges of 'manslaughter'. In many of these instances, the death can be of a close family member or a good friend. This makes the situation all that much more tragic. Whether my previous post 'bored' some of the TVF members is not the point. There should and must be equality under the law if the law is to have any meaning at all. We should care. All life is sacred. US laws are irrelevant here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdgbb Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: There's absolutely nothing in the article that gives any detail of the guy acting recklessly or in a way to endanger others. There doesn't need to be anything like that in a media report! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdgbb Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 17 hours ago, Briggsy said: This announcement from the Phuket police is all about shifting the narrative and more importantly the blame and making sure some money changes hands before the boyfriend is allowed to go home. I noted on the other thread he would have to pay. And you could be wrong on this thread also. Where has it been reported that he will be paying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdgbb Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 6 hours ago, thhMan said: When has reckless driving been anything more than a misdemeanor in Thailand? He isn't being charged with reckless driving, he's being charged with reckless driving causing death, there's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai006 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 9 year in thailand and i know don't use jet ski if you don't want die or get scammed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, happyas said: No, i'm not 100% wrong at all...be rational mate. You are getting hysterical..As i said a"jetski " is not dangerous PER SE..Agree? No more than your superbike comparison, or a 44 magnum revolver , or a supercar are dangerous per se. How are they "dangerous? Sitting there, doing nothing, until some novice wanna bee decides to use one or other They simply are NOT dangerous in their being. They can become dangerous , as i said, only because of the "nut behind the wheel" ie a living person, who has decided that he can operate such equipment in a safe manner even though he has absolutely no or little previous experience in doing so. Yes? For crying out loud, these were not school kids, they were two adults who had the nous and ability to decide to come away on holiday together and sadly ,like so many others before them left their brains at the airport [to use an oft quoted expression]. Old enough to fly alone, old enough to drink in a bar, old enough to vote, and more than old enough to make their own minds up whether or not to hire a jetski, without having to be told otherwise. PS also i have not seen anything to suggest that they were in fact novices in jetski use. They may well have been, but i have not seen this mentioned. As much as i have sorrow for the guy, it does appear ,that by his high speed riding and not "seeing" his girlfriend because of the sun, he is 100% at blame for her death. I am being extremely rational and definitely not hysterical every time you post on this thread you are making my point for me The average "Joe" (seemingly you) completely underestimates and fails to grasp just how dangerous these things are and all the examples you give above all require training to operate safely - they are dangerous in the hands of a novice - that to me seems pretty simple to understand and yet you don't seem to get it also lets be clear about what this thread is about - police holding a novice untrained individual responsible for an accident which should never have happened because he should never have been driving a dangerous high performance jet ski without proper training in the first place, just like complete novices should not be allowed to hire superbikes - the argument is the same - they should never have been allowed to hire them and one more thing just in case you still don't get it I takes training - experience and skill to ride one of these machines safely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannig Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, thai006 said: 9 year in thailand and i know don't use jet ski if you don't want die or get scammed One of the very first things I've learnt during my earliest visits to the LOS in the late 80s... the hard way. Stayed away from these things since then, and resisted every request from members of my Thai family to rent one when on vacation at a sea resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farcanell Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 It seems to me that the whole argument about the boyfriend being culpable relies solely on an utterance made when the guy was probably in shock and in extreme emotional distress. arguably this should be ignored. investigate? Sure... good one... but charging is probably jumping the gun. as noted previously, she may have hit him, killing herself. to avoid "recklessly" riding a jet ski, rules like don't ride at speeds in excess of 8 k near swimmers, and 15 k if within 50 meters of another vessel, need to be put in place and enforced.... which we know won't happen. misadventure.... plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyas Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 22 minutes ago, smedly said: I am being extremely rational and definitely not hysterical every time you post on this thread you are making my point for me The average "Joe" (seemingly you) completely underestimates and fails to grasp just how dangerous these things are and all the examples you give above all require training to operate safely - they are dangerous in the hands of a novice - that to me seems pretty simple to understand and yet you don't seem to get it also lets be clear about what this thread is about - police holding a novice untrained individual responsible for an accident which should never have happened because he should never have been driving a dangerous high performance jet ski without proper training in the first place, just like complete novices should not be allowed to hire superbikes - the argument is the same - they should never have been allowed to hire them and one more thing just in case you still don't get it I takes training - experience and skill to ride one of these machines safely OMG! If you feel the need for all to be wrapped in cottonwool and not be responsible for your own actions, so be it, not for me at all. I'm going to make use of your sig and give up on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryjohns Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 34 minutes ago, smedly said: I am being extremely rational and definitely not hysterical every time you post on this thread you are making my point for me The average "Joe" (seemingly you) completely underestimates and fails to grasp just how dangerous these things are and all the examples you give above all require training to operate safely - they are dangerous in the hands of a novice - that to me seems pretty simple to understand and yet you don't seem to get it also lets be clear about what this thread is about - police holding a novice untrained individual responsible for an accident which should never have happened because he should never have been driving a dangerous high performance jet ski without proper training in the first place, just like complete novices should not be allowed to hire superbikes - the argument is the same - they should never have been allowed to hire them and one more thing just in case you still don't get it I takes training - experience and skill to ride one of these machines safely Where do you get the information that you quote here that the man is a novice untrained individual ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, garryjohns said: Where do you get the information that you quote here that the man is a novice untrained individual ? Is the sun a novice....Does it do what we want at all times.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebike Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Happyas and smedly:I believe we can all agree that jetskis are not dangerous until they are in motion. And that we do not have a definitive investigation of abilities nor circumstances. What we do seem to have is the classic blame debate. Does fault lie with the individual, mentally compitent, adult and their choices, or does fault lie at the feet of others who could have informed the individual that their actions may be dangerous.Ultimately it IS an individual choice. But most of us are used to others, and society in general, warning us that our actions may be dangerous. Signs, laws, licenses, waivers all attempt to aide individuals in making smart choices for themselves in our home countries. Here you are mostly on your own.Good rule of thumb for all tourists. If ya wouldn't do it in your own town, don't do it here unless you are financially, physically, and emotionally ready to take responsibility for your actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryjohns Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 By the sounds of things maybe you have been out in the sun too long transam. But back to my question to smedly if you would. I have seen no info on whether or not the guy was a novice , and would just like to know where this info that smedly posted was found ,out of curiosity, because it would have a huge bearing on this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish monger Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Thailand needs it's pound of flesh...! OMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, garryjohns said: By the sounds of things maybe you have been out in the sun too long transam. But back to my question to smedly if you would. I have seen no info on whether or not the guy was a novice , and would just like to know where this info that smedly posted was found ,out of curiosity, because it would have a huge bearing on this case. Hmmmmm, so YOU think jet-ski renters RENT to known jet-ski user friendly foreign folk....? ANSWER....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggusoil Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 He just lost the love of his life. No matter what happened, he will be replaying whatever mistakes he felt he made, if there was a fault, over and over in his mind, wishing to God it had happened another way, for a long time. Those of us that would be more cautious with a high powered water machine, can conjecture as to the wisdom or folly of it all, but there will be no one more aware of this than he is right now. A terrible accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryjohns Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 3 hours ago, transam said: Hmmmmm, so YOU think jet-ski renters RENT to known jet-ski user friendly foreign folk....? ANSWER....... Hmmmmm i really have no idea what you are on about [again] Maybe you should lay off the drink when posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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