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Thailand approves extension of free tourist visas to August 2017


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18 minutes ago, blorg said:

Jack, you are simply wrong here, for every one American than comes to Thailand there are ten Chinese tourists. Those are the numbers right now.

 

Far too many Westerners have this strange imperial idea that China and other developing countries are somehow destined always to stay poor. 76% of the entire Chinese population are projected to be middle class within the next five years. And China is only a short haul cheap flight away, I flew there return myself recently for under 4,000B. A far cry from the $1,000 16-hour flights you are looking at from the US.

The Thailand Elite programme in conjunction with TAT don't see it Jacks way either. They see China and India as a very lucrative market. The are about to run roadshows to promote the programme throughout Asia with an emphasis on China and India.
People love to promote the Chinese as 'Non spenders'. If they got off of there bar stools and saw just where and how much they do spend, they would be in for a shock. According to the TVF Planning Bureau for tourism, if your not in a bar with a Chang T shirt on your back and a 50bht beer in hand, it's all over.

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2 hours ago, blorg said:

Jack, you are simply wrong here, for every one American than comes to Thailand there are ten Chinese tourists. Those are the numbers right now.

 

Far too many Westerners have this strange imperial idea that China and other developing countries are somehow destined always to stay poor. 76% of the entire Chinese population are projected to be middle class within the next five years. And China is only a short haul cheap flight away, I flew there return myself recently for under 4,000B. A far cry from the $1,000 16-hour flights you are looking at from the US.

I would like to know the definition of "middle class" in this analysis - I am guessing this is not based on a universal standard income.  I do agree about the air-ticket difference, and that Thailand would be wise to promote affordable tourism for less-affluent people in the region.  I assume the 10:1 numbers include the count pre-shutdown of the "zero-dollar" tours which brought in Chinese tourists who spent next to nothing upon arrival - numbers have fallen significantly, in the interim.  The numbers certainly include the drop from the mass-destruction of the middle-class of the USA over the past decades - a decline which could be reversed by returning to trade and immigration policies designed to benefit our citizens.

 

China's economy, now, is the beneficiary of the Transnational-Imperial policy of destroying the only truly middle-class and large-segment populations on the planet and replacing them with inexpensive Chinese labor.   I am betting this does not continue - that the West will not allow itself to be destroyed by Transnational Corporations.  But my wish is not for Chinese to be forever poor - but for all nations to become self-sufficient middle-class nations which come "up" to the standards which we had in my country before globalist-policies were implemented. 

 

Take away China's trade-surplus, created by Transnational neo-mercantilism, and what is their future under the current regime?  Hopefully this event will lead to a "fall of the wall" moment, as we saw with the USSR, and the end of tyranny in China.  Further down this road, their tourist-numbers could rise again, and these would be mostly people with money to spend - unlike the zero-dollar variety in the last wave.

 

Be sure to ask Thais how they feel about the switch from Western to Chinese tourism.  From moto-drivers on up, I have not heard anyone happy about this development.

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12 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I would like to know the definition of "middle class" in this analysis - I am guessing this is not based on a universal standard income.  I do agree about the air-ticket difference, and that Thailand would be wise to promote affordable tourism for less-affluent people in the region.  I assume the 10:1 numbers include the count pre-shutdown of the "zero-dollar" tours which brought in Chinese tourists who spent next to nothing upon arrival - numbers have fallen significantly, in the interim.  The numbers certainly include the drop from the mass-destruction of the middle-class of the USA over the past decades - a decline which could be reversed by returning to trade and immigration policies designed to benefit our citizens.

 

China's economy, now, is the beneficiary of the Transnational-Imperial policy of destroying the only truly middle-class and large-segment populations on the planet and replacing them with inexpensive Chinese labor.   I am betting this does not continue - that the West will not allow itself to be destroyed by Transnational Corporations.  But my wish is not for Chinese to be forever poor - but for all nations to become self-sufficient middle-class nations which come "up" to the standards which we had in my country before globalist-policies were implemented. 

 

Take away China's trade-surplus, created by Transnational neo-mercantilism, and what is their future under the current regime?  Hopefully this event will lead to a "fall of the wall" moment, as we saw with the USSR, and the end of tyranny in China.  Further down this road, their tourist-numbers could rise again, and these would be mostly people with money to spend - unlike the zero-dollar variety in the last wave.

 

Be sure to ask Thais how they feel about the switch from Western to Chinese tourism.  From moto-drivers on up, I have not heard anyone happy about this development.

Jack, with respect, you do not have a clue about the Chinese economy today. Successful economies (such as Japan in the past, and Germany today) are always demonized by their less successful competitors. The reality is usually that they are doing something right. The "current regime" you think you understand has an important role in the infrastructure development that has helped to maintain China's competitiveness as it has moved away from being a low wage economy. However, China has for some years been overwhelmingly a capitalist society, with the government probably having less involvement in the wider economy than in most Western countries.. Did you know that average factory wages in China are over double those of the Philippines, three times those of Indonesia and four times those of Vietnam. In spite of this, overall costs for manufacturers remain usually lower than in those other countries, largely due to far higher productivity, efficient local supply chains, and excellent infrastructure. With China now being the world's biggest market for industrial robots, productivity improvements and cost containment are likely to continue. Erosion of China's manufacturing competitiveness will be gradual, if it happens at all.

 

I am not trying to pretend everything in China is perfect. Corruption, especially at regional levels, remains a major issue, in spite of well publicized attempted crackdowns. China has worse environmental problems than almost anywhere else in the world, and these are not going to be easily solved. Income inequality (especially the rural-urban divide) remains a major problem. However, the burgeoning middle class in China is a fact. According to Goldman Sachs, the 19% of the Chinese workforce that is urban but not migrant workers (about 146,000,000 people) earn an average of US$11,733 a year. This is still increasing at the rate of about 10% a year. Given the cost of living and small families, this implies significant disposable income for many of those workers.

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1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Jack, with respect, you do not have a clue about the Chinese economy today. Successful economies (such as Japan in the past, and Germany today) are always demonized by their less successful competitors. The reality is usually that they are doing something right. The "current regime" you think you understand has an important role in the infrastructure development that has helped to maintain China's competitiveness as it has moved away from being a low wage economy. However, China has for some years been overwhelmingly a capitalist society, with the government probably having less involvement in the wider economy than in most Western countries.. Did you know that average factory wages in China are over double those of the Philippines, three times those of Indonesia and four times those of Vietnam. In spite of this, overall costs for manufacturers remain usually lower than in those other countries, largely due to far higher productivity, efficient local supply chains, and excellent infrastructure. With China now being the world's biggest market for industrial robots, productivity improvements and cost containment are likely to continue. Erosion of China's manufacturing competitiveness will be gradual, if it happens at all.

 

I am not trying to pretend everything in China is perfect. Corruption, especially at regional levels, remains a major issue, in spite of well publicized attempted crackdowns. China has worse environmental problems than almost anywhere else in the world, and these are not going to be easily solved. Income inequality (especially the rural-urban divide) remains a major problem. However, the burgeoning middle class in China is a fact. According to Goldman Sachs, the 19% of the Chinese workforce that is urban but not migrant workers (about 146,000,000 people) earn an average of US$11,733 a year. This is still increasing at the rate of about 10% a year. Given the cost of living and small families, this implies significant disposable income for many of those workers.

 

I appreciate the info on China. I do not dispute it - but do think the context is important:

  • It is much cheaper to produce when you can literally poison everyone for kilometers around without consequence.  OTOH, Western economies have become far to overburdened with regulations - often created by regulatory agencies which take on a "survival and growth" instinct of their own - so this can go too far in the other direction - but clean air and water are nice.
  • We used to have that "fantastic infrastructure" in my country.  Now, manufacturers say that even if they wanted to move production to the USA, they cannot, because the infrastructure to support them is now gone (literally dismantled, put on ships, and sent to China, in many cases - friends of mine literally trained their Chinese replacements before their factories were dismantled).  Hopefully, that damage can be reversed, and replaced with the latest tech-solutions.
  • As to automation, many formerly automated tasks were "re-manualized" when manufacturing moved to China, because you could pay a person to put in tiny-screws in a phone all day, and this person's labor was even cheaper than a robot.  Just don't take too long in the bathroom, or you will be quickly replaced with another disposable human, of which China has an endless supply. 
  • I do not trust "average" wages, because I have seen the way these stats are manipulated in the USA.  Mix in a few billionaires, and you can greatly skew what average working folks actually earn.  Even breakdowns by quintiles can be very misleading - as the critical-points of suffering/excess are on the edges of the scale.  That said, the large totals do indicate a significant number of persons with disposable income of "tourist level" significance.
  • I don't mean to single-out the Chinese on the low-wage front. Vietnam is definitely working to undercut China in the the "we have the cheapest labor" sector. I lived for a while in the Philippines, and spent time in areas where South Koreans owned businesses.  What they paid workers for long-hours was shockingly low.  Cambodia is similar with regard to South Korean owners, where the military has been used to break strikes.  As to Indonesia, there is a long history there relating to the overthrow of Sukarno and the Suharto regime's rise (relating the "Chicago-School" economists involved), which at least partly explains why poverty persists there.  Though I am staunchly "free-market," I do not equate human beings with widgets.  To the extent that any government preserves dignity for its working-citizens - which a multinational enterprise would have no financial interest in doing - I support such efforts.  But my understanding is that "unions" in China are govt-run, vs "worker run," associations.
  • Government ownership / shares in many large and mid-sized Chinese businesses is a bit ominous, to say the least, within a so-called "capitalist" framework. 
  • Goldman Sachs is another long story in and of itself.  Their stats can be - both - helpful for investors, but also viewed as propaganda serving the agenda of their primary stockholders.

My hypothesis remains, that there may be a re-balancing of trade in the next few years, with the working-folks in the USA regaining some lost ground, and Chinese exports levels being reduced, such that we will see tourist-growth patterns re-balancing in favor of American visitors to Thailand.  This will be contingent on fuel-prices / airfare and other factors, of course. 

 

If $30 is significant - the current VOA discount and Tourist-Visa cost - I don't see how the "quality tourist" label applies.  I can see how it would help offset those formerly using the "zero-dollar" tour options from China. 

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On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 7:13 PM, ubonjoe said:

I have looked for that on the MFA website and several embassy and consulate websites but I have not been able to find it.

I assume they will post some kind of formal announcement prior to the 28th.

Portland has responded to me a 2nd time, says they spoke with the Embassy (again), and the free waiver will NOT be extended at the consulates (who, BTW, are not permitted to charge any fees of their own).  My impression of Portland has always been that they run a professional operation, stay on top of things. are efficient with their processing, and consistently get it right.  It all depends on their embassy guidance however, of course.

 

This suggests to me that the free waiver WILL be extended if you're dealing with an Embassy rather than a consulate (though the difference to me between a standalone consulate and the consular section of an Embassy seems a bit arbitrary), at least in the case of actual consulates (that is, other than honorary consulates)..

 

'Will be interesting to hear what other members report after March 1st.  If it were me though, I'd not send off an application without payment after that date unless I was SURE of the continued waiver.

 

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1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

This suggests to me that the free waiver WILL be extended if you're dealing with an Embassy rather than a consulate (though the difference to me between a standalone consulate and the consular section of an Embassy seems a bit arbitrary), at least in the case of actual consulates (that is, other than honorary consulates)..

There are two types of consulates. There are official Thai consulates that are funded by the government that can do most things an embassy can do. In the US those are in New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. Then there are honorary Thai consulates that receive no funding from the government at can only issue certain visas and can in some cases offer notary services.

I am still sceptical that the embassy has told the honorary consulates they will be able to charge $40 for a single entry tourist visa while other locations will be issuing them with no fee.

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There are two types of consulates. There are official Thai consulates that are funded by the government that can do most things an embassy can do. In the US those are in New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. Then there are honorary Thai consulates that receive no funding from the government at can only issue certain visas and can in some cases offer notary services.
I am still sceptical that the embassy has told the honorary consulates they will be able to charge $40 for a single entry tourist visa while other locations will be issuing them with no fee.


I've dealt with this person for years. She wouldn't make it up.
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Why does the Saigon consulate still state that it costs 40 USD? It has to be free at every consulate right? Maybe they just didn't update their website.

 

I'm going there next week. Could someone confirm that they still return your passport the next afternoon so I can book flights?

 

Thanks

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21 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

Why does the Saigon consulate still state that it costs 40 USD? It has to be free at every consulate right? Maybe they just didn't update their website.

 

I'm going there next week. Could someone confirm that they still return your passport the next afternoon so I can book flights?

 

Thanks

If you look at the homepage of the website you will find this announcement about it. http://www.thaiembassy.org/hochiminh/contents/files/news-20161209-101659-816356.pdf

No change. Apply the morning of one day and pickup the next afternoon.

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1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

If you look at the homepage of the website you will find this announcement about it. http://www.thaiembassy.org/hochiminh/contents/files/news-20161209-101659-816356.pdf

No change. Apply the morning of one day and pickup the next afternoon.

Thanks for that info. I was looking in another section of their site. In that notice it says free until Feb 28 but I will be applying on Feb 29. Didn't they just announce a while ago that the free TR visa time would be extended until August? If it's free or not is not the main point for me but I just need to know should I have the 40 USD with me just in case.  

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15 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

Thanks for that info. I was looking in another section of their site. In that notice it says free until Feb 28 but I will be applying on Feb 29. Didn't they just announce a while ago that the free TR visa time would be extended until August? If it's free or not is not the main point for me but I just need to know should I have the 40 USD with me just in case.  

Yes it has been extended to August but they have not posted an announcement about it yet.

I think you need to look at a calendar. The 28th is the last day of the month there is no 29th day this year.

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4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it has been extended to August but they have not posted an announcement about it yet.

I think you need to look at a calendar. The 28th is the last day of the month there is no 29th day this year.

Yes. I just booked my next visa run and had to pay the full price since there is yet no official announcement. I got told in case the visa will be free next month, I would get back 1000 Baht.

 

Btw; no reports from the visa office about rejected applications. They offices works all together. So, they would know it as first if something is going on.

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So let me get this straight.  I am currently in Vietnam and will have been in vietnam for 3 months by the time of my next planned trip back to Thhailand.

Does this change now mean that if I wanted to,  I could just turn up at Swampy, with my passport and get a tourist visa at swampy which will grant me a tourist visa stamp in my passport until August, if I wanted it, and also without having to do at least one 90day report during that time?

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4 minutes ago, daiwill60 said:

So let me get this straight.  I am currently in Vietnam and will have been in vietnam for 3 months by the time of my next planned trip back to Thhailand.

Does this change now mean that if I wanted to,  I could just turn up at Swampy, with my passport and get a tourist visa at swampy which will grant me a tourist visa stamp in my passport until August, if I wanted it, and also without having to do at least one 90day report during that time?

No, if you arrive at the airport you will get 30 days visa exempt like normal.

It means if you go to the consulate in Hanoi or HCMC you can get a 60 day (not 90 day) tourist visa for free, but you have to go apply for the visa like normal. You just don't have to pay.

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On 2/21/2017 at 11:14 AM, ubonjoe said:

Yes it has been extended to August but they have not posted an announcement about it yet.

I think you need to look at a calendar. The 28th is the last day of the month there is no 29th day this year.

Yes I was a bit confused with the dates there. I meant 28th or 1st of March.  

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17 minutes ago, geovalin said:

It looks like Thai Embassy / Consulate in Paris will NOT continue the FREE tourist visa after 28th Feb. and will charge the tourist visa on Wed.

Any input elsewhere?

It was approved by the cabinet but I have not found anything about it on the MFA website or any embassy or consulate website I have checked. I think there will something come out today or tomorrow about it. The Vientiane embassy did not post an announcement about the current one until the 1st of December.

It is was approved for all nationalities so a embassy or consulate cannot decide they will not issue the visa  without a fee.

 

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5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It was approved by the cabinet but I have not found anything about it on the MFA website or any embassy or consulate website I have checked. I think there will something come out today or tomorrow about it.

It is was approved for all nationalities so a embassy or consulate cannot decide they will not issue thevisa  without a fee.

 

THANK YOU

I know that you'll inform us as soon as you have the final news.

 

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  • 1 month later...

I have a question. I arrived on a 90 day N-O Visa! After 90 days, I want to extend for 60 more days at 1900 THB? After that,

I want to go get a 60 day Tourist Visa in Lao for free during August 2017. That way, when I fly home in October, I will be covered

for a 7 month visit. Is this correct? Thanks for your assistance. 

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I have a question. I arrived on a 90 day N-O Visa! After 90 days, I want to extend for 60 more days at 1900 THB? After that,
I want to go get a 60 day Tourist Visa in Lao for free during August 2017. That way, when I fly home in October, I will be covered
for a 7 month visit. Is this correct? Thanks for your assistance. 

The tourist visa is free only for certain countries.
If you are from a country that gets visa exempt status on arrival you have to pay. Is your non - O based on Thai family?
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3 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:


The tourist visa is free only for certain countries.
If you are from a country that gets visa exempt status on arrival you have to pay. Is your non - O based on Thai family?

Yes, when I went to the Thai Consulate in Atlanta, they offered me both. The Free Tourist Visa or the $80 N-O Visa.

I wanted to get renewable N-O for $200, but they said they could not issue. I will be in Thailand for 7 months before

my wife and I return to the US. What do you recommend?

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4 minutes ago, tomwct said:

Yes, when I went to the Thai Consulate in Atlanta, they offered me both. The Free Tourist Visa or the $80 N-O Visa.

I wanted to get renewable N-O for $200, but they said they could not issue. I will be in Thailand for 7 months before

my wife and I return to the US. What do you recommend?

You can get the 60 day extension and then another non-o visa or a tourist visa but it will not be free.

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  • 3 months later...
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And what is your point 

You expected a FREE visa to visit the country you want to come on your holiday ,just pay the fee ,since your not 1 of 20 countries Thailand want to come and be a free tourist ,sorry that is  how it is for now.

And I hope you have 20,000 Bhat on your person when you try and enter Thailand on your next visit.

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