How to get a change of visa if pattaya immigration don't give you one?

[Jiggo]

1 hour ago, Munotlaw said:

speedy-visa in Pattaya will solve your problem in 1 - 2 days, like some other visa agents.

Munotlaw

Or the photo copy shop beside Immigration will sort it for a fee.....I used a agent in Soi Post Office, haggled the price to 18000, as the first one is a pain as getting the O Visa outside your home country is not officially allowed, after that I do the renewal's myself easy..... 

[Evilbaz]

20 minutes ago, Jiggo said:

Or the photo copy shop beside Immigration will sort it for a fee.....I used a agent in Soi Post Office, haggled the price to 18000, as the first one is a pain as getting the O Visa outside your home country is not officially allowed, after that I do the renewal's myself easy..... 

 

Really!?

It's perfectly legal to get a Non-Immi O visa at a neighbouring (to Thailand) Consulate or Embassy.

Thousands have done it for far cheaper than 18,000 baht.

[scotsman]

As you can see in the attachment you can get a change of visa from Tourist to Category-O if its for retirement as long as you meet the requirements before you go for a extension to the one year, Pattaya have not been able to issue them since 2014 and send your application to Bangkok it takes approx 15 days to get it back so it can be done. As i have said if the lady officer does not want to do this for any reason he will have to try another way.

regards

Scotsman     

requirements for retirement.doc

[Munotlaw]

Immigration Pattaya prefers that the visa change is handled by an agent, less work but more money.

Munotlaw

[scotsman]

Thank you for reply my brother will go to a visa agent if he is turned down again.

regards

scotsman

[Munotlaw]

Probably interesting to hear the outcome of this (not unusual) case. But like in all corners of the world, money is a strong argument to get something.

Munotlaw  

[scotsman]

Just to update this thread my brother and I will be going to Bangkok immigration office tomorrow with all the Documents he needs for this change of visa including all bank books updated with print outs from Bangkok Bank and the letter proving he has the funds in longer than 2 months. Also a British embassy pension letter with more than enough to qualify and he will give them a copy of that, and tell them he needs the original for the extension in 60 days time.  With the bank books alone he would not need the pension letter for the extension but we can only try and keep the original if possible. I will update how we got on later but if for some unknown reason they will not do it then it can't be done in Thailand.

regards

Scotsman 

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by scotsman

[scotsman]

Well that was a wast of time it looks like what Ubonjoe said was correct they would not do it because he does not have a Bangkok Address she told us you have to apply where you live in Thailand or outside of Thailand. So the last resort for my brother is to try some visa agents that will not charge the earth for doing it, if they can. Or he goes back to pattaya Immigration on the 11th march to this lady for one more try with the updated documents including statements from Bangkok bank that show the funds have been in there 3 months with letter and of course the British embassy pension letter un-certified with more than twice the monthly requirements as back up.  If she finds a reason to refuse again he will ask her what will it take to get it done, as I can see none. If he comes out of pattaya immigration empty handed with no reason given he only has 2 more choices 1 apply outside of Thailand or 2 go home and forget retiring in Thailand its just not worth all the stress, He is that frustrated. This lady is so rude that it brings out the worst in people but as we all know you have to bite your tongue.

regards

Scotsman

ps I hope this thread will help others in there quest for a change of visa to category-O  I will update after the 11th March. 

[scotsman]

Just to update this thread my Brother has been back to pattaya immigration after a lot of arguing back and forth with this very rude lady about the Bank books again he asked for the supervisor to have a look at both bank books and the bank statements. At last they excepted the money in one account was seeded long enough but the very rude lady said why have you got 2 bank accounts why don't you have 1 like all the rest. My brother explained to the lady that one account was for general use for everyday expenditure and the other was a savings account. Well would you believe what happened next the lady adds another requirement she now wants a copy of the owner of rented condo and the work permit of the man or ID number of the person on the rental contract as more proof of address she will not except the rental contract. My brother asked her if he could get these documents will she do the change of visa and she said yes, if you can believe a word that comes out her mouth that there will not be another stupid requirement that she will make up out of thin air. Now after e-mailing the company that is renting the condo to my brother they have said its impossible to get a copy of the blue book or chanoot from the owner in time as he is not in the country. He will not have enough days to do it as Monday is the last possible day 16 days left.  Why did this very rude lady not give my brother a list of all requirements that she wants in the first application? this has been his 3 rd time back and every time there is a new requirement. The pension letter from the British Embassy for back up was dismissed because she does not trust the British Embassy what a bloody nerve and you have to get it notarized at Bangkok. My brother and I don't think you can ever get a change of visa in Thailand so he will have to make up his mind to do one of 3 things.  1. fly out to penang where the requirements are easy to follow.  2. Fly back to the UK and wait until his new condo is ready with all the proof of address and apply again in Pattaya god forbid. 3. Forget about retiring in Thailand its just not worth the stress and frustration find another more welcoming country to retire too.  I don't know witch one he will choose because he is to angry at the moment he will have to cool down and then make a decision.   I will update this thread to let everyone know how it turned out.

Regards and thank you for your advice.

Scotsman   

[johng]

Or he could follow the advice given in the very first answer and go set the visa from Laos ! !

[Peterw42]

OP, a visit to one of the visa agents will have this sorted in one visit. You probably spent more on the trip to BKK than an agent will charge.

 

[tgeezer]

Or. He could have enquired at the embassy in his home country what the requirments were to move to Thailand on. along term basis,

What's done is done. It would appear that he has now become a persopnality among Immigration Officers in Pattaya and at least one, almost certainly acting on orders or with support of her superior is not prepared to appeal to Bangkok on his behalf as a special case. He could act again on hearsay and go to Laos, he has nothing to lose.

At risk of being accused of naivety, he needs to 'eat humble pie', admit that he was ignorant of the procedures and acted as if he was entitled because he took bad advice, quote this forum in support if he wants to.
If normal relations are restored, ask for advice, Act on those instructions without reservation or argument and if he is a nice man he will probably discover that The IO is a very nice person too after a year or so.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Evilbaz]

Humble pie is foreign to many here who "have principles".

My friends are always advised " start at least with an O visa".

[Peterw42]

OP, Sorry to hear about your brothers experience. Its frustrating and very easy to feel they are giving your brother a hard time and making up the rules as they go along.

The basic requirements are, show us your money, show us where you live. So they are not really making up the rules as they go along, and its at there discretion.

Money in separate accounts, maybe seasoned maybe not, an un-certified income letter etc, not a great start.

A TM30 on the first day of tourist visa arrival would have possibly helped with the "show us where you live" requirements. Asking for landlords ID etc is their way of processing you without a TM30, fine etc.

Asking to speak to the imm officers boss etc, usually gets into the Thai loss of face thing and can often make things worse.

In hindsight, an OA visa from home country is often an easier option, or an O visa from a neighbor country.

As I said previously, an agent will sort it easily.

 

.

[tgeezer]

I agree. If there is a visa which serves your requirements then get it. if there isn't then ask here to avoid or circumvent long stay conditions. Openly stating that in order to avoid vetting one should not apply in your home country, with the implication that the Immigration Commision are quite happy with that, is scandelous. As some people have discovered Immigration is not always 'happy with that'!


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[sumrit]

58 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Or. He could have enquired at the embassy in his home country what the requirments were to move to Thailand on. along term basis,

What's done is done. It would appear that he has now become a persopnality among Immigration Officers in Pattaya and at least one, almost certainly acting on orders or with support of her superior is not prepared to appeal to Bangkok on his behalf as a special case. He could act again on hearsay and go to Laos, he has nothing to lose.

At risk of being accused of naivety, he needs to 'eat humble pie', admit that he was ignorant of the procedures and acted as if he was entitled because he took bad advice, quote this forum in support if he wants to.
If normal relations are restored, ask for advice, Act on those instructions without reservation or argument and if he is a nice man he will probably discover that The IO is a very nice person too after a year or so.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

I think current rules applied in the UK  mean he would have to apply for an O-A visa over there and that would involve a police check and income status over there.

I guided a friend through this same process nearly two years ago in Pattaya (the same week they were allowed to accept applications themselves again) without any problems. It was long winded and they were very strict on what documentation etc they required but, giving them exactly what they asked for (whether it was on the 'official' requirements list or not), they weren't any problems.

It was clear though that they preferred people to get the correct ( non O) visa themselves then just go to immigration for the extension. In having to convert a tourist visa/visa exempt first then complete the extension immigration are having to complete the same work twice.

 

I hope the OP's 'brother' realizes that when/if Jomtien give him a non O visa they will keep all the paperwork. When he then applies for his extension he will have to supply it all again. For example, if he's using a letter from the British Embassy to verify his income he won't have had that returned to him, nor will he be able to supply a photocopy, he'll have to go back to the Embassy again to apply for, and pay again for, a new letter. And, if required, the same for signed copies of his accommodation owners ID card and tabien baan. That's exactly what happened when my mate got his non O then applied for his extension, even though they already had those documents on file.

[scotsman]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, a visit to one of the visa agents will have this sorted in one visit. You probably spent more on the trip to BKK than an agent will charge.

 

He asked a visa agent and he said it would cost him 25k if he wanted them to do it well that was out of the question as he has all the funds to do it.

 

2 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Or. He could have enquired at the embassy in his home country what the requirments were to move to Thailand on. along term basis,

What's done is done. It would appear that he has now become a persopnality among Immigration Officers in Pattaya and at least one, almost certainly acting on orders or with support of her superior is not prepared to appeal to Bangkok on his behalf as a special case. He could act again on hearsay and go to Laos, he has nothing to lose.

At risk of being accused of naivety, he needs to 'eat humble pie', admit that he was ignorant of the procedures and acted as if he was entitled because he took bad advice, quote this forum in support if he wants to.
If normal relations are restored, ask for advice, Act on those instructions without reservation or argument and if he is a nice man he will probably discover that The IO is a very nice person too after a year or so.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

He is not 65 years old so London will not do it, Sorry but he was not ignorant of the procedures and did not act as if he was entitled to anything he only wanted a clear instruction from the beginning what requirements was needed to apply for a change of visa and as our story goes the lady did not give him all the requirements she kept adding them on. He was always polite even when she was very rude. The pension letter from the British embassy was only a back up to prove to her he had more than twice the requirement alone with that document never mind the money in the bank accounts again alone would be more than enough.

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, Sorry to hear about your brothers experience. Its frustrating and very easy to feel they are giving your brother a hard time and making up the rules as they go along.

The basic requirements are, show us your money, show us where you live. So they are not really making up the rules as they go along, and its at there discretion.

Money in separate accounts, maybe seasoned maybe not, an un-certified income letter etc, not a great start.

A TM30 on the first day of tourist visa arrival would have possibly helped with the "show us where you live" requirements. Asking for landlords ID etc is their way of processing you without a TM30, fine etc.

Asking to speak to the imm officers boss etc, usually gets into the Thai loss of face thing and can often make things worse.

In hindsight, an OA visa from home country is often an easier option, or an O visa from a neighbor country.

As I said previously, an agent will sort it easily.

 

.

He did a TM 30 when he got a 30 day extension to his tourist visa He also had a contract agreement and a internet receipt for his rented condo as proof of address we know it is up to there Discretion but you have to tell someone at the start of the application what they are going to be, not tag it on every time you go back with the requirements that she asked for in your first meeting. As I have said the pension letter was only to show this lady that he had more than enough to meet any requirements and did not really need it as the money in the bank books was more than enough but it took a lot of people in that office to see that all moneys where seeded long enough as she asked for in the first meeting. The ladies and the boss were in the same room so he asked them to check the bank books and statements and they agreed it was OK it was seeded long enough. if the rude lady lost face then there is nothing anyone can do about that it was her mistake not wanting to read the information closely enough.  What I am letting people know on this forum is that in Pattaya its very very difficult to get a change of visa doing it by yourself.  If my brother who is a very nice man and always polite can not get anywhere with this lady no one can. He will probably make up his mind after cooling down if he still wants to retire here if so he will probably go to penang as he does not like the look of the immigration service in Laos with long unorganised ques. 

I again thank you for all your advice

Regards

Scotsman       

 

[scotsman]

correction to my post I have found out that my brother did not ask the other ladies or the boss to check the bank books or statements the rude lady officer ask them and the boss came out and also looked at them so there was no lose of face.

Regards

Scotsman  

[nosguitar]

Just clarify things , I am the brother (nice man :-)) and this is the current list of requirement given to me by the officer at Pattaya immigration for changing my 60 day tourist visa , which has been extended by 30 days, to a category o visa.

I am not offering opinion or advice this is just my own personal experience and I thought that if it constitutes the norm I thought I had better share it .

 

1) original passport

2) original bank book

3) A letter from lessor or contract for proof of address

         4) If rented from a THai , a copy of the ID card

          5) If rented  from a non Thai , a copy of work permit ( I was assured by the officer that this would not be forthcoming and was advised instead to look for the Thai option???)

6) transactions in the bank book occurring on the day of application ( I transferred some money )

7) Letter from the bank branch confirming the value and ownership of the bank book dated on the application date

8) At least 800, 000 bht in the bank for a period of over 60 days

9) Evidence of foreign currency transferred to Thailand in the bank book

10) copy of the front page of your passport (signed by applicant)

11) copy of the visa page (signed by applicant)

12) copy of the extension stamp (signed by applicant)

13) copy of the departure card (signed by applicant)

14) copy of your bank book (signed by applicant)

15) TM30 form completed by applicant to provide a record of address , complete with thai telephone number. The IO isn't interested in this but you will not get passed the reception without it.

16) TM 86 application to change visa , with a passport photograph attached

 

Furthermore

 

If you are from UK and  not receiving the state pension , you will not qualify for a category O visa from the UK Thai consulate.

Even though Pattaya immigration send the application to Bangkok , the office there will not issue it directly , you must go through the office in the region that you reside.

I had a pension letter and can confirm the experience of someone in a related post , I was told that I needed the original letter certified. The official British consular seal is obviously not recognised or not enough proof. In any case I did not need it as I tried the application with the bank books .

 

Don't have your 800000 baht in a savings account and separate working account for your daily banking , unless you also have 800000 baht in your working account as well , otherwise you will have a devil of a job trying to convince the officer that your international transfers and transactions in your working account are eventually transferred to make up the 800000 in your savings account. If you do then take bank statements , printed from the bank branch, not your own computer , it will show the transfer number in both statements. Keep it simple and if you do have to do this then be very careful and gentle in your approach to advising the officer in how to interpret this.

 

After the second attempt I was determined not to deal with the officer in question and decided to go through an agent. The agent I contacted was keen enough until I advised him that I didn't need the money in my account. I explained that I just needed someone else to deal with the application and was willing to pay for the privilege. After humming and heying he gave a quote  and I decided that it was too much and would go elsewhere. However the agent was also very helpful in offering advice and said that I should go to Bangkok so I didn't have to deal with Pattaya. I had already discounted that option as I had read somewhere that it had to be done where in your place of residence,  but I had read so much conflicting information and because this was an expert,  I decided this to be the best option. As aforementioned IT ISNT an option, unless you live in Bangkok.

 

That's it , I am no expert and will not reply to any questions , or any responses to this post , if my brother wants to then so be it. I hope this helps someone else.

 

I will say that if I were to do it again I would go through an agent .

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, nosguitar said:

8) At least 800, 000 bht in the bank for a period of over 60 days

That is one glaring thing that is not correct. Bankok who will approve the application only requires the money in the bank on the date you apply.

 

Quote

DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA OR VISA STATUS ALTERATION (NON-O): FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES.

The application must be submitted more than 15 days before visa expiration and, in case of overstaying in Thailand, application could not be submitted. 1.1 Form TM.86 for the foreigner, who has Tourist and Transit Visa and applies for Visa Status Alteration and applies for non-immigrant visa; or 1.2 Form TM.87 for the foreigner, who enters into Thailand without visa, but is allowed to stay in Thailand with a permit of stay for a period of 15 day, 30 days, 90 days and applies for non-immigrant visa. A copy of passport pages (for example, personal information page, last entries stamp, visa sticker and extension stamp (if any) and departure card (Form TM.6)) Either one 4x6 cm photograph or one 2 inch size photograph Application fee of Baht 2,000 5.1 A guarantee letter from the bank in Thailand in Thai language (Attention: Immigration Commissioner)* 5.2 A copy  of all entries of the applicant’s passbook showing that the applicant has a savings or fixed deposit account  of not less than Baht 800,000* (all documents must be in the Applicant’s name). 5.3 Evidence of foreign currency fund transferred to Thailand* *(Documents under 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3 must be issued and updated to be the same date of the Application and all documents must be in the Applicant’s name.)or A guarantee letter from the local or overseas Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension of the Applicant not less than Baht 65,000 per month (together with reference documents showing the source of said monthly pension); or Evidence of deposited money under Clause 5 and evidence of income under Clause 6  (for one year) showing the total amount not less than Baht 800,000

Source by clicking change visa and for retirement. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service#

[scotsman]

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is one glaring thing that is not correct. Bankok who will approve the application only requires the money in the bank on the date you apply.

 

Source by clicking change visa and for retirement. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service#

The link for the change visa does not work in my browser.   You are missing the point he is telling everyone on this forum his experience at pattaya immigration and the requirements in that office with that lady is not the same as Bangkok or the ones he has found online or the ones you have found on your link if I could get it to work. Bangkok cannot approve anything if they don't get the application from this lady officer in Pattaya immigration and she will not do it unless you jump through all the hoops she says you need but you have to be a mind reader to know what they are as she keeps adding them on after every visit and will not tell you all her requirements on the first visit. But I will update this Thread in the future when my brother comes back from Penang hopefully with good news.

regards

Scotsman   

[tgeezer]

The link doesn't work on my iPad either, in fact none of the links work. I suppose that they would be Police Orders which appear to be infinitely adaptable so links would be pointless.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, scotsman said:

The link for the change visa does not work in my browser.  

You need to be useing Internet Explorer, Edge or a browser extension to emulate IE. I use IE Tab on Chrome to open them.. You click on the file folder symbol to open them.

I was just pointing out the Bitc*** wrong requirements. Your brother is not first to have problems with her.

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

When using the TM87 to get the Non Imm O extension of stay, does one need to show his Income verification letter? I assume that one only needs it for the extension based on retirement, but better safe than sorry.

 

Cheers

From the list I posted earlier.

On 3/13/2017 at 1:48 PM, ubonjoe said:

7. A guarantee letter from the local or overseas Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension of the Applicant not less than Baht 65,000 per month (together with reference documents showing the source of said monthly pension); or

The TM87 form is used to a apply for a non immigrant visa it is not an extension.

[OJAS]

On 3/10/2017 at 8:05 PM, scotsman said:

The pension letter from the British Embassy for back up was dismissed because she does not trust the British Embassy what a bloody nerve and you have to get it notarized at Bangkok.

As has been reported in other threads on here, it is a standard Jomtien requirement for the consular signature of Embassy income confirmation letters to be verified by the MFA in Bangkok in the case of non-O conversions. However this requirement does not apply in the case of income confirmation letters supporting annual extension of stay applications.

[scotsman]

I have just been informed that my brother has got his Category -O visa in Penang so he is very happy. The process in Penang was very easy and well organised, nothing like Pattaya. So to all the people who read this tread you are better off trying to get a change of visa in Penang than pattaya.  The lady in Pattaya immigration I think has been instructed to make your life very difficult in changing your visa as they want to push you to a visa agent,  Her requirements that she wants you to get are not given to you all at one time so you jump though her hoops one by one until she can trip you up or you get so frustrated you go to a visa agent, who will charge you anything from 25k to 16 k  even when you have all the money requirements yourself.  We are glad this experience will help others to get the information to be able to get a change of visa.  We thank all the people who tried to give us advice.   

 

Regards

Scotsman   

[nosguitar]

I guess all in all it would have been cheaper to use an agent and less hassle , but there is something satisfying about getting this done by myself . My experience of Penang immigration is the exact opposite of Jomtien . It was quick , organised , and efficient . The staff were friendly and helpful and I would have no hesitation in recommending it to anyone else .


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[crazygreg44]

1 hour ago, scotsman said:

I have just been informed that my brother has got his Category -O visa in Penang so he is very happy. The process in Penang was very easy and well organised, nothing like Pattaya. So to all the people who read this tread you are

 

better off trying to get a change of visa in Penang than pattaya.  (note of me: he has NOT changed it in Penang!)

 

he lady in Pattaya immigration I think has been instructed to make your life very difficult in changing your visa as they want to push you to a visa agent,  Her requirements that she wants you to get are not given to you all at one time so you jump though her hoops one by one until she can trip you up or you get so frustrated you go to a visa agent, who will charge you anything from 25k to 16 k  even when you have all the money requirements yourself.  We are glad this experience will help others to get the information to be able to get a change of visa.  We thank all the people who tried to give us advice.   

 

Regards

Scotsman   

i hope your brother does not fall out of his cloud when he realizes that he has not "changed his tourist visa to a Non Imm O" in Penang,  but has received a "normal" Non Imm O visa as a first step individual visa.

 

This visa will eventually become invalid soon (90 days), and he needs to apply for extension of stay based on retirement at the wonderful Immigration Office in Jomtien, the place where he resides.

 

So actually he hasn't won anything that he could not have had in the first place, if he had gone out of Thailand to get a Non Imm O at any Thai consulate or embassy, or used an agent.

 

When he applies for the extension of stay, he will have to bring up the same documentations and all the same paperwork, again, which he has been asked for in the first place when he tried to change a tourist visa to a Non Imm O.  

 

The residence certificate seems now to be a crucial document for Pattaya Imm, and he should take utter care in order to comply with this requirement. 

 

Actually another run of the mill. Maybe this time using an agent instead of going himself, again, will solve the issue.

 

I advice him to be calm, well mannered and don't tell them what their job is.

 

Good luck!

Edited March 29, 2017 by crazygreg44

[nosguitar]

Thanks mate I am well grounded and am aware of the above thanks the info anyway though.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[scotsman]

2 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

i hope your brother does not fall out of his cloud when he realizes that he has not "changed his tourist visa to a Non Imm O" in Penang,  but has received a "normal" Non Imm O visa as a first step individual visa.

 

This visa will eventually become invalid soon (90 days), and he needs to apply for extension of stay based on retirement at the wonderful Immigration Office in Jomtien, the place where he resides.

 

So actually he hasn't won anything that he could not have had in the first place, if he had gone out of Thailand to get a Non Imm O at any Thai consulate or embassy, or used an agent.

 

When he applies for the extension of stay, he will have to bring up the same documentations and all the same paperwork, again, which he has been asked for in the first place when he tried to change a tourist visa to a Non Imm O.  

 

The residence certificate seems now to be a crucial document for Pattaya Imm, and he should take utter care in order to comply with this requirement. 

 

Actually another run of the mill. Maybe this time using an agent instead of going himself, again, will solve the issue.

 

I advice him to be calm, well mannered and don't tell them what their job is.

 

Good luck!

 As I have been living here for over 16 years getting all kinds of extensions from Retirement to marriage I know what requirements are required and its not the same as what this lady was asking to change the tourist visa to a category -o visa.  The extension will be done by a different set of people who check all the paper work before hand and will inform you if there is anything else they need giving you plenty time to find it.  You have not bothered to read through this thread to see what my brothers experience was with this lady.  The requirements for the extension is always different from one officer to the next but the next officer for retirement extension in Pattaya immigration has never changed for years so my brother should get the extension without the help of a visa Agent as he meets all the requirements of that officer.  I will be going back to the same officer in Sep for my extension using the same requirements and I see no problem unless the requirements change before then. If they do then I am sure it will be big news on this forum.  I am happy my brother has got over this hurdle the next one is a lot easier.

 

Regards

Scotsman               

Edited March 29, 2017 by scotsman