Vientiane consulate rejections

[ChomDo]

I have never had problems in Vientiane. How about Saigon? I'm going there next week for a SETV. I have one previous SETV from Vientiane from 3 months ago so this would be my second SETV in a row. Should it be smooth as usual or could there be problems?

[dentonian]

35 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

 

I do agree that proof of funds is certainly a valid requisite to prove.

 

My major point was that it wouldn't be likely (in general) for an employer to hold open a job for the employee that was maximizing the length of stay allowed by the METV, hence Thailand not maximizing the potential numbers of people utilizing it.

 

If embassies/consulates are flexible with the 'employed' part of the requirements and proof of funds is enough, fair enough, although i do believe a lot of embassies will stick to the checklist.

 

I don't see how they justify the price difference between the single entry TV (£25) and the multiple (£125)

 

If entering Thailand on the single entry TV, there are options available from here to obtain another single entry TV from a neighbouring Country, giving the potential to stay up to 6 months, and/or purchase a multi re-entry permit.

 

Each to their own circumstances, but the options and prices have to be examined by the individual.

 

 

[hawker9000]

I have never had problems in Vientiane. How about Saigon? I'm going there next week for a SETV. I have one previous SETV from Vientiane from 3 months ago so this would be my second SETV in a row. Should it be smooth as usual or could there be problems?

I've never had problems at Vientiane either, but haven't been during this current free visa window, which seems to have introduced yet another degree of inconsistency into an already infamous mix.

[ChomDo]

10 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

I've never had problems at Vientiane either, but haven't been during this current free visa window, which seems to have introduced yet another degree of inconsistency into an already infamous mix.

 Yea what a shame. You save 1000b but have a harder time getting a visa..

[JackThompson]

On 2/20/2017 at 10:21 AM, Suradit69 said:

There are ways to get (relatively) long term tourist stays in Thailand without doing a succession of SETVs by making visa runs.  Anything truly long stay and you cease to be a tourist.

Yes, I am under 50, so have considered taking a Thai Job to get a B-Visa, if the Tourist option is no longer available for longer-term stay.  I have an advanced degree and experience, so it would not be difficult - though I'd rather stay retired.   Also, it would be unfortunate for the Thai tech-graduate who doesn't get the job - and having experienced the other side of this in my own country, I would prefer not to do this.

 

On 2/20/2017 at 11:40 AM, dentonian said:

If you can afford to take two years out, you can afford the Thai Elite.

No, I cannot, though I have a steady offshore-income exceeding what I need to live in Thailand comfortably.  If I had enough capital to afford to spend 500K+ on a visa, I would just plop 10M Baht in a bank account and have a visa based on investment.  As I cannot afford the 10M "investment" option - money I could keep and take with me if I leave - I sure as heck cannot afford to "spend" 500K on the Elite option. 

 

On 2/20/2017 at 10:41 AM, dentonian said:

If your spending more than 6 months in Thailand you can hardly be classed as a Tourist.

True only for purposes of Visa Exempts, currently.

 

On 2/20/2017 at 10:41 AM, dentonian said:

The O-A Visa is always an option for 'long stays' to tour Asia.

If you are over 50.

 

On 2/20/2017 at 10:41 AM, dentonian said:

I see two types of 'visitors' who abuse the system.

Young teachers with no qualifications who cannot get a B Visa, so use back to back Tourist Visas.

Retires who cannot meet the financial requirements for an extension and have lived here for years on Visa exempts and TV's.

And the fastest-growing working-segment in the world - people whose income is not tied to working "in an office" thanks to technology.  Some of us created businesses on this model, and earn income without us even having to involve ourselves in day-to-day operations.

 

On 2/20/2017 at 10:41 AM, dentonian said:

The noose is tightening.

Yes, around the necks of Thais whose incomes are based on the thousands of under-50 long-term stayers.  If obtaining serial tourist visas becomes a problem, and another visa-option is not opened, we can just move to another welcoming country.  Thai people are the ones who would pay the price for that move. 

 

So far, the door is still open, if a person is willing to jump through the hoops.  I have not seen a pattern of rejections at Vientiane - just one uncorroborated report that didn't involve a "no more visas for you" stamp.  Anyone worried should just use Savanakhet or other consulates, and have the required proof of funds and/or air-ticket and/or rental-contract (depending on which location).

[JackThompson]

18 hours ago, Hedghog said:

Imagine how Thais feel.

Difficulty getting a tourist visa to many western countries.

Plus the cost.

Maybe a tourist visa here should be in the Baht 20,000 region.

Restrictions on length of stay,no hopping the border for a renewal.

Then there would be some complaints

Westerners coming here have it sooooo easy.

Some folk on here are so full of their own entitlement.

I'd think they would celebrate people coming here, with money from somewhere else, and spending it into their economy, creating jobs here.   I don't  see how denying Thais the ability to sell their goods and services to Westerners staying in Thailand, by cracking down on Tourist Visas, addresses the Western-privilege / entitlement issue.  The visa issue should be just a matter of economics and security.

 

18 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

Yes, it is what you said.  You continue to purport that the reason Vientiane is issuing less visas because of some relation to illegal workers in Thailand with no evidence to support your claim.  It's obviously your private beef.  It is impossible to prove a negative.  

Applicant: "I don't work in Thailand"

Embassy Staff: "Prove it"

Huh?  If you are to be accused of something the onus is not on you to defend yourself.  It is on the accuser to prove their claim.  

Yes - proving a negative is nearly impossible, though it can help if you have a bank-book showing overseas income, thus making a Thai income unnecessary.  I would suggest anyone applying for a 2nd or more Tourist Visa have this information handy.  It might help, or they might just be looking to deny you to minimize their workload (especially now that visas are free) without really caring if you are working illegally or not.

[ChomDo]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I'd think they would celebrate people coming here, with money from somewhere else, and spending it into their economy, creating jobs here.   I don't  see how denying Thais the ability to sell their goods and services to Westerners staying in Thailand, by cracking down on Tourist Visas, addresses the Western-privilege / entitlement issue.  The visa issue should be just a matter of economics and security.

 

Yes - proving a negative is nearly impossible, though it can help if you have a bank-book showing overseas income, thus making a Thai income unnecessary.  I would suggest anyone applying for a 2nd or more Tourist Visa have this information handy.  It might help, or they might just be looking to deny you to minimize their workload (especially now that visas are free) without really caring if you are working illegally or not.

Agree with your replies to these two comments. Especially "Hedghogs" comparison there that didn't make much sense to me. Of course Thais can't be allowed easy visa access to western countries but Thais for sure want westerners to come spend their money here. It's just obvious that the visa system here is not very well planned and there are no good visa solutions for many of us. The Thai immigration's amazing slogan "Good guys in, bad guys out" isn't working very well. 

 

The term "illegal work" has been mentioned here now many times. I understand that if you have a tourist visa you're not allowed to work in a company and if you do work in a company in Thailand you must have a work permit. But what exactly counts as working in Thailand? I'm just curious because there are so many people who live here and work on online based jobs that have nothing to do with Thailand. That can't be counted as working in Thailand right?  For these people I don't see any other option than to stay here on tourist visas, Elite card or marriage. 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, ChomDo said:

Agree with your replies to these two comments. Especially "Hedghogs" comparison there that didn't make much sense to me. Of course Thais can't be allowed easy visa access to western countries but Thais for sure want westerners to come spend their money here. It's just obvious that the visa system here is not very well planned and there are no good visa solutions for many of us. The Thai immigration's amazing slogan "Good guys in, bad guys out" isn't working very well. 

 

The term "illegal work" has been mentioned here now many times. I understand that if you have a tourist visa you're not allowed to work in a company and if you do work in a company in Thailand you must have a work permit. But what exactly counts as working in Thailand? I'm just curious because there are so many people who live here and work on online based jobs that have nothing to do with Thailand. That can't be counted as working in Thailand right?  For these people I don't see any other option than to stay here on tourist visas, Elite card or marriage. 

Please see the many threads on "digital nomads".  Short answer - yes, it is illegally working; no, it is not currently being enforced; but, yes, it could start being enforced at any time. 

Note the old law on TM-30 reporting, which is now being enforced for the first time in decades. 

Yes, I think they should open up a visa-category to bring a million+ well-paid remote-workers (this place is paradise for geeks) and others with offshore incomes, so they can spend their incomes here - instead of wherever else (Vietnam, Cambodia, The Philippines, all of Latin America, etc) - and even pay some income-taxes here as part of the deal for the visa.  But I'm not holding my breath.  Logic doesn't always translate into solutions quickly, when it comes to any govt-bureaucracy.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎20‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 5:29 PM, dentonian said:

You mean backpackers who have the time to explore because they don't hold down any employment and travel on the benefits their paid from the taxes I paid. Yeah right!

Good grief. I'm a retiree and would love to spend a long time just exploring, but because I may not have 800,000 or a permanent address would not qualify to extend a visa.

[ChomDo]

13 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Please see the many threads on "digital nomads".  Short answer - yes, it is illegally working; no, it is not currently being enforced; but, yes, it could start being enforced at any time. 

Note the old law on TM-30 reporting, which is now being enforced for the first time in decades. 

Yes, I think they should open up a visa-category to bring a million+ well-paid remote-workers (this place is paradise for geeks) and others with offshore incomes, so they can spend their incomes here - instead of wherever else (Vietnam, Cambodia, The Philippines, all of Latin America, etc) - and even pay some income-taxes here as part of the deal for the visa.  But I'm not holding my breath.  Logic doesn't always translate into solutions quickly, when it comes to any govt-bureaucracy.

I'll try to find some of those threads. I just don't see how working on your own projects online to another country while being in Thailand can qualify as "illegal working" in Thailand. I mean as you said it should be just a positive thing for Thailand. It's not like those foreigners are stealing jobs from Thai people or creating any sort of negative influence by doing their own online based work here. These people can have good earnings and they spend a lot more money than Thais do so I don't see why it's considered "illegal" and bad for the country?? There should just be some kind of visa for these "digital nomads" and yes they could even pay some tax if it made it easier for them to get a long term visa. Looks to me like the country could gain a lot by offering these people some legal system to stay here and perhaps then pay a share for it instead of having to fool around with multiple tourist visas and border runs etc.  

[NoshowJones]

On 2/20/2017 at 11:40 AM, dentonian said:

If your employed and can only take a few weeks away from work, then the Visa exempt allows 30 days for most, the TV allows 60 days extendable to 90 days. How much longer do you think an employer would keep his job open.

 

If you can afford to take two years out, you can afford the Thai Elite.

 

I believe the authorities are making a statement by saying get the correct Visa for the purpose of your visit.

A lot of people do not have employers, and earn money in various ways , ie renting out property, the elite visa is one big con only for those who can afford to throw money away and get little in return.

[dentonian]

8 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

A lot of people do not have employers, and earn money in various ways , ie renting out property, the elite visa is one big con only for those who can afford to throw money away and get little in return.

Agreed, but tell me another Visa option available to those under 50 who want to retire and live permanently in Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

11 minutes ago, dentonian said:

Agreed, but tell me another Visa option available to those under 50 who want to retire and live permanently in Thailand.

That is what is wrong, although I am not under fifty, I have stated many times in my posts that the Thailand authorities are very unfair to the under fifties who want to stay here long term, and IMO I believe they are losing lots of quality tourists because of this.

I remember when I first came here it could be hard to find a hotel or Guesthouse in the tourist areas round about Christmas and the New Year, ie, go to Pattaya around that time now, and you will have no problem finding one.

[dentonian]

21 hours ago, JackThompson said:

So far, the door is still open, if a person is willing to jump through the hoops.  I have not seen a pattern of rejections at Vientiane - just one uncorroborated report that didn't involve a "no more visas for you" stamp.  Anyone worried should just use Savanakhet or other consulates, and have the required proof of funds and/or air-ticket and/or rental-contract (depending on which location).

Many of the local expats who have lived here on TV's and Visa exempts are now finding it harder and harder to obtain such Visas due to the current restrictions, and their over 50!

Now resorted to paying an 'agent' 17,000 baht to obtain another TV.

 

If I was under 50 Jack, I certainly wouldn't be feeling welcome anymore in Thailand.

[dentonian]

29 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

That is what is wrong, although I am not under fifty, I have stated many times in my posts that the Thailand authorities are very unfair to the under fifties who want to stay here long term, and IMO I believe they are losing lots of quality tourists because of this.

I remember when I first came here it could be hard to find a hotel or Guesthouse in the tourist areas round about Christmas and the New Year, ie, go to Pattaya around that time now, and you will have no problem finding one.

And one of the reasons for the crackdown is to stop the illegal working practices.

 

[NoshowJones]

16 minutes ago, dentonian said:

And one of the reasons for the crackdown is to stop the illegal working practices.

 

Yes, you are right, but again as I have recently pointed out, the authorities should start checking out factories, schools etc, and punish the employers and illegal workers instead of harassing the tourists, but brown envelopes spring to mind again.

[JackThompson]

On 2/22/2017 at 9:05 AM, ChomDo said:

I'll try to find some of those threads. I just don't see how working on your own projects online to another country while being in Thailand can qualify as "illegal working" in Thailand. I mean as you said it should be just a positive thing for Thailand. It's not like those foreigners are stealing jobs from Thai people or creating any sort of negative influence by doing their own online based work here. These people can have good earnings and they spend a lot more money than Thais do so I don't see why it's considered "illegal" and bad for the country?? There should just be some kind of visa for these "digital nomads" and yes they could even pay some tax if it made it easier for them to get a long term visa. Looks to me like the country could gain a lot by offering these people some legal system to stay here and perhaps then pay a share for it instead of having to fool around with multiple tourist visas and border runs etc.  

I agree with your analysis, and that may explain the lack of enforcement, but just be aware it is not technically-legal under the law. 

 

I also agree that there is a huge opportunity for Thailand to make lots of money by changing that law with a new visa and legal-business / work-permit category.  As is, most people in this "missing" visa category simply live in other countries, and spend their incomes there, instead - anywhere in Latin America, The Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc - no problem, and the welcome-mat is out.

 

On 2/22/2017 at 10:48 AM, dentonian said:

Many of the local expats who have lived here on TV's and Visa exempts are now finding it harder and harder to obtain such Visas due to the current restrictions, and their over 50!

Now resorted to paying an 'agent' 17,000 baht to obtain another TV.

 

If I was under 50 Jack, I certainly wouldn't be feeling welcome anymore in Thailand.

In general, I agree the tightening of restrictions exists, and also believe this is detrimental to Thailand's economy.  That said, I don't see why a 50+ person with the requisite income or money in-the-bank would have any trouble, under the current system.  The 17K Baht offer is, as I understand it, for people who don't have the money, so are getting fraudulent visas via a corrupt payoff-system - or - for people who have so much money they are willing to pay a 15K Baht premium to save a few hours of their time.

 

If you want to feel "welcomed," go to The Philippines, where a Western guest is "assumed worthy" of being there, until proven otherwise.  It is more like the reverse of that dynamic, here - especially since we destroyed our own nations' borders, such that our passports could be held by people from anywhere.

[Asiantravel]

On ‎20‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 8:46 AM, Essecola said:

A person in another thread said he was rejected for a tourist visa in Vientiane and had only 1 previous SETV in his passport from a Thai embassy not in Asia.

a person in another thread also claimed that the Ho Chi Minh City consulate was now insisting on a copy of the flight ticket into Vietnam as part of the application process which ended up being a load of b*******

there are people on this forum for whatever reason they have who seem to take delight in spreading complete and utter misinformation

[Briggsy]

There is very little information about Vientiane in this thread.