Thousands demonstrate in London against leaving the EU

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

You have read the quotations I posted from Farage and Bill Cash both stating that they would not accept the result as being final in Farage's case if it was 52/48? So yes we would be having this debate which has been going on for over 40 years since the Out side never accepted the 1975 result which resulted in an overwhelming majory for staying in as final. Now apparently we are expected to accept 52/48 as final.

If the vote had gone the other way Farage would have had to accept it, same as you have to accept our leaving. 

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

I have lost count of the number of times I have posted the link to Professor Michael Dougan explaining sovereignty. Nothing comes out of the EU which can become British Law until it is approved by our own sovereign parliament.  However its also true to say that in any negotiation both sides have to give and take. In the upcoming Brexit negotiations this will be just as true. 

We have been in the EU for some forty years and our parliament is still the ultimate sovereign authority as recently affirmed by the supreme court when the PM tried to over-ride it. As Professor Dougan explains, if a European Law applies over a British Law it is only because our own sovereign parliament has approved that. We have had the Lisbon and Maastrich treaties, the SEA, each and everyone had to be approved by our own sovereign parliament. 

Heath didn't lie he knew exactly the constitutional position, that every treaty, every law could not be enacted in the UK without first getting parliamentary approval. 

Just to add there are many examples where some international law will over-ride a British Law, again that is only the case because the UK has signed up to some treaty or other and sought and been given the approval of our Parliament. Unless our Parliament had given its approval then it would have no affect in a British Court.

Unfortunately, facts mean little to Brexiters.

[pitrevie]

Just now, vogie said:

If the vote had gone the other way Farage would have had to accept it, same as you have to accept our leaving. 

I have accepted leaving which I did the day following the vote. However Farage stated that he would not accept it and presumably that would mean campaigning until he got the result he wanted. Bill Cash another leading Brexiter also stated that he would not accept the result as final. Just like those in 1975 never accepted that vote as final.

I also pasted a link from the Brexit Secretary of state David Davis which I think is very appropriate.

David Davis said nations 'not democracies' if they can't change their mind. However since writing that apparently David Davis has changed his mind about that.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

While there is, for a good reason, voting age limitations for the young, this should apply to the other end as well.

 

People over age of 65 should no longer be allowed to vote as they are not going to participate the society for too much longer to see the effects of their votes.

 

This should be standard all around the world. Maybe our societies would advance a bit faster with that small change.

Yes, let's euthanase everyone at 65. Save a fortune in pensions and older people are out of touch anyway ?

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I have accepted leaving which I did the day following the vote. However Farage stated that he would not accept it and presumably that would mean campaigning until he got the result he wanted. Bill Cash another leading Brexiter also stated that he would not accept the result as final. Just like those in 1975 never accepted that vote as final.

I also pasted a link from the Brexit Secretary of state David Davis which I think is very appropriate.

David Davis said nations 'not democracies' if they can't change their mind. However since writing that apparently David Davis has changed his mind about that.

 

It's alright saying Farage or Cash would never accept it, but in reality the result would have had to stand, do you honestly think that the government would have held another? They would have never had the referendum if they thought they were going to lose it, but mother doesn't always know best. 

 

[pitrevie]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

It's alright saying Farage or Cash would never accept it, but in reality the result would have had to stand, do you honestly think that the government would have held another? They would have never had the referendum if they thought they were going to lose it, but mother doesn't always know best. 

 

That was the point about 1975 then the result was something like 2:1 but that didn't stop the then anti-marketeers from spending the next 40 years trying to get a second referendum and reverse the result. Nobody expects a third referendum any time in the next few weeks.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, let's euthanase everyone at 65. Save a fortune in pensions and older people are out of touch anyway ?

Hmm... No, it wouldn't work. The folks who have power are aware that someday they too will turn 65. They even might have some feelings towards their elder family members. People are weak in that way ;D

But as an mental exercise it's fun to think how the world would change if there would be an upper voting age limit. Elders would become advisors for younger generations. 

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Hmm... No, it wouldn't work. The folks who have power are aware that someday they too will turn 65. They even might have some feelings towards their elder family members. People are weak in that way ;D

But as an mental exercise it's fun to think how the world would change if there would be an upper voting age limit. Elders would become advisors for younger generations. 

You think the younger generation listen to elders? Now you are being ridiculous!

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

While there is, for a good reason, voting age limitations for the young, this should apply to the other end as well.

 

People over age of 65 should no longer be allowed to vote as they are not going to participate the society for too much longer to see the effects of their votes.

 

This should be standard all around the world. Maybe our societies would advance a bit faster with that small change.

Why not save money at the same time. When a person reaches 65 will you champian euthanasia?

[watso63]

On 26/03/2017 at 0:05 PM, thai3 said:

what was there to 'love' about the EU?

Absolutely nothing unless you were on the gravy train or receiving grants for some pet project paid for by member state tax payers.

[watso63]

23 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Freedom to live and work anywhere in the EU.  Peace in our time.

Nothing wrong with work permits and a properly managed visa system. Non-EU nationals including commonwealth nationals are discriminated against because of the EU. British workers have had their pay and working conditions reduced and undermined because of an oversupply of cheap EU labour, never mind all of those dodgy LGV driving licence scams that took place. Just take a look at how hard and expensive it is to get a Class 1 LGV Licence for a British driver compared to an eastern european for example. As for "they do the jobs the Brits won't" argument then that's because of a generous benefits system that could be sorted out, after all there are approximately 800,000 people registered as unemployed. A simple "work for benefit or lose entitlement" programme would be a good start. Suck it up buttercups?

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, watso63 said:

after all there are approximately 800,000 people registered as unemployed. A simple "work for benefit or lose entitlement" programme would be a good start. Suck it up buttercups?

Certainly there will be plenty of Tory party donors who support that idea. Why pay people to work for you when you can have the taxpayer pay them instead?

[nontabury]

19 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Fortunately Scotland has the chance to leave the sad Little Englanders to go on fantasising about the glories of the Empire and imagining the UK is still a big player on the world stage. Meanwhile the older voters responsible for Brexit, Trump, and other right wing successes have betrayed their children's generation who can't work in Europe, can't buy a house, and are paying for the "Boomers" mainly largely inflated pensions. For those of you whose brains are small enough to think that not listening to experts ( as Michael Gove advised) is clever, I recommend the Daily Mail, the Daily Express, and the Sun, you can get your idiotic prejudices confirmed there. 

 

 

Sir George Mathewson former chairman of the Royal Bank of Scotland ( Halifax Bank ) SNP member and vice-president of the YES campaign,and economic advisor to Alex Salmonds in 2014. Now says an independent Scotland should NOT 

join the E.U. Saying it would be an economic folly. Exactly the same as Jim Sellers

the former deputy leader of the SNP, and that of Alex Neil SNP.   MSP. And other SNP's who are also reported to have voted Brexit.

 

so what does Nicola Sturgeon think of Scotland's economic potentials?

 

 

 

[watso63]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Certainly there will be plenty of Tory party donors who support that idea. Why pay people to work for you when you can have the taxpayer pay them instead?

Unfortunately for those mean and nasty tory slave drivers they would still be forced to pay the minimum wage lol.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Sir George Mathewson former chairman of the Royal Bank of Scotland ( Halifax Bank ) SNP member and vice-president of the YES campaign,and economic advisor to Alex Salmonds in 2014. Now says an independent Scotland should NOT 

join the E.U. Saying it would be an economic folly. Exactly the same as Jim Sellers

the former deputy leader of the SNP, and that of Alex Neil SNP.   MSP. And other SNP's who are also reported to have voted Brexit.

 

so what does Nicola Sturgeon think of Scotland's economic potentials?

 

 

 

You appear to be confusing two very separate issues - was that a deliberate effort to conflate them, or are you confused personally?

 

Mathewson, a self-confessed Eurosceptic, has said that he thinks that joining the EU is not in Scotland's best interests. He did not question Scotland's econmic potential.

[RuamRudy]

9 minutes ago, watso63 said:

Unfortunately for those mean and nasty tory slave drivers they would still be forced to pay the minimum wage lol.

I wish that you were right and I was wrong (lol...) but sadly your trust in the tories is very misguided. Quite frankly, I am amazed that I need to even tell you that, but I can see that some people just take longer to accept the truth.

 

Revealed: The High Street firms that used benefits claimants for free labour

"Government fought in the courts for four years to keep the companies' identities a secret, saying it would damage their 'commercial interests'"

 

Well-known high street firms were among more than 500 organisations who used the free labour of welfare claimants, after they were forced to take unpaid work under rules brought in by David Cameron's Coalition Government.

The list of 534 organisations, which can be read in full here, includes firms such as Tesco, Nando's, Boots, Superdrug, Morrisons, Asda, Co-op, WHSmith, Poundstretcher, Cash Converter, DHL and a host of other major corporations.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, let's euthanase everyone at 65. Save a fortune in pensions and older people are out of touch anyway ?

Yes, lock up the old fuddy-duddies all and one, why not? And lower the voting age to whenever the kids can tick a box!

[watso63]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I wish that you were right and I was wrong (lol...) but sadly your trust in the tories is very misguided. Quite frankly, I am amazed that I need to even tell you that, but I can see that some people just take longer to accept the truth.

 

Revealed: The High Street firms that used benefits claimants for free labour

"Government fought in the courts for four years to keep the companies' identities a secret, saying it would damage their 'commercial interests'"

 

Well-known high street firms were among more than 500 organisations who used the free labour of welfare claimants, after they were forced to take unpaid work under rules brought in by David Cameron's Coalition Government.

The list of 534 organisations, which can be read in full here, includes firms such as Tesco, Nando's, Boots, Superdrug, Morrisons, Asda, Co-op, WHSmith, Poundstretcher, Cash Converter, DHL and a host of other major corporations.

I don't trust any politician but I don't like seeing lazy benefit scroungers, especially those that also work for cash in hand in the black economy either. I grew up in a council estate in a South Yorkshire mining area and have seen it all. The ones I truly feel sorry for are those who go out to work full-time yet are just slightly better off or even worse off than career layabouts and dossers. Trouble is no-one's got the balls to grasp the nettle and deal with the problems. Better to just lay in my hammock and wonder how long it is before beer o'clock.?

[RuamRudy]

Just now, watso63 said:

I don't trust any politician but I don't like seeing lazy benefit scroungers, especially those that also work for cash in hand in the black economy either. I grew up in a council estate in a South Yorkshire mining area and have seen it all. The ones I truly feel sorry for are those who go out to work full-time yet are just slightly better off or even worse off than career layabouts and dossers. Trouble is no-one's got the balls to grasp the nettle and deal with the problems. Better to just lay in my hammock and wonder how long it is before beer o'clock.?

Not at all - I am not suggesting that we simply hand out free money to lazy people, but what you have here is the taxpayer paying for these Tory donor companies to get free work done. So rather than taking someone unemployed off the dole and paying them minimum wage, they get that slot filled with a benefits claimant for free while the working class people of the country pay the benefits out. And the Tories facilitate it and even try to cover it up.

[stander]

It's amusing to see that so many remainers are still totally mystified as to why they lost, and how their arguments failed to convince.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, stander said:

It's amusing to see that so many remainers are still totally mystified as to why they lost, and how their arguments failed to convince.

Not mystified at all - Grouse has explained it any times.

[Laughing Gravy]

A few thousand tree huggers and luvvys will hardly make a difference. Many from the picture  look like they are not even British.

 

Before The PC brigade start whining, I meant from the various flags of European countries been waved.

[Khun Han]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

14 minutes ago, stander said:

It's amusing to see that so many remainers are still totally mystified as to why they lost, and how their arguments failed to convince.

Not mystified at all - Grouse has explained it any times.

Good one

[Khun Han]

37 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Not at all - I am not suggesting that we simply hand out free money to lazy people, but what you have here is the taxpayer paying for these Tory donor companies to get free work done. So rather than taking someone unemployed off the dole and paying them minimum wage, they get that slot filled with a benefits claimant for free while the working class people of the country pay the benefits out. And the Tories facilitate it and even try to cover it up.

 

Are they all Tory supporting companies? Tesco, for one, donates to both leading parties.

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

A few thousand tree huggers and luvvys will hardly make a difference. Many from the picture  look like they are not even British.

 

In view of the fact that it's London, there's a very good chance that they aren't. That'd also explain the insensitivity of them demonstrating on the site of the atrocity of a few days ago .

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

You appear to be confusing two very separate issues - was that a deliberate effort to conflate them, or are you confused personally?

 

Mathewson, a self-confessed Eurosceptic, has said that he thinks that joining the EU is not in Scotland's best interests. He did not question Scotland's econmic potential.

Again trying to twist the facts. It is NS who does not seem to realise the 

problems and limitations of Scotland economy.

 

 

[nauseus]

55 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Good one

Grouse has yet to explain anything!

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, Grouse said:

Then your impression is entirely wrong. Do you know what soft power is?

 

No. 

I neither know nor care what you mean by "soft power", thank you, Mr Know-It-All, since I have absolutely zero time for your sneering, patronising and condescending attitude towards each and everyone of us who has the temerity to disagree with your point of view as regards UK membership of the EU.

 

Since you clearly have zero tolerance of all us Brexiteers, I can only assume that you are ardently in favour of us being "educated in the error of our voting ways", along the lines of "attitude adjustment" as currently practised by the military here against the red shirts. Since you clearly share 100% with your yellow-shirted cousins here a total disdain for democracy, I can only assume that you are standing shoulder-to-shoulder with them in seeking to have your respective agendas foisted on the UK and Thailand in contradiction of majority verdicts delivered at the ballot box in either case.

 

 

[OJAS]

6 hours ago, oilinki said:

While there is, for a good reason, voting age limitations for the young, this should apply to the other end as well.

 

People over age of 65 should no longer be allowed to vote as they are not going to participate the society for too much longer to see the effects of their votes.

 

This should be standard all around the world. Maybe our societies would advance a bit faster with that small change.

So by the same token would you not agree that people over 65 should no longer have to pay taxes if they were denied the vote?

[stander]

The UK's entrepreneurs may be holding their breath ahead of the triggering of Article 50 on Wednesday, but James Dyson has said he is "enormously optimistic" about it.

In an interview with the BBC today, Dyson, who was one of the business world's most prominent Brexiteers, said it won't be a disaster if the UK ends negotiations without a trade deal with the EU.

"We pay the WTO tariff going into Europe because we manufacture in the Far East," he said. http://www.cityam.com/261756/james-dyson-wto-rules-after-brexit-bring-em