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dontoearth

Testosterone Therapy for Weight Loss

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3 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

I've read previously taking testosterone may also lead to male infertility, having small testicles & male-pattern baldness. Not something you would want to have as a young dude....

  All the more reason to do this ONLY if you need too and to do it UNDER THE SUPERVISION of a medical doctor with regular check-ups and laboratory testing.  I would assume someone like Zyzz had easily gone past 5-10 times the upper boundary of testosterone perhaps 20 times more and many of the other body building drugs have no equivalent in the body so any at all is far too much.  And death is a pretty hard side-effect to overcome.  

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SECOND UPDATE REPORT of May 29:

       Weight loss started again.  I am down to 84.9 Kilo.  However, FFM (Fat Free Mass) decreased by a little less than a kilo.  Fat increased by 1.3 kilo.  Muscle mass shrank back down from 63.8 to 61.8.  However, BMI continues to drop at 26.5 still higher than the 24.9 I am trying achieve for health reasons.  I have high blood pressure!

        What does all of this mean?  Well for one thing the effects of the drugs like testosterone and HGH and the steroids are very fleeting.  My previous post had me walking on air but the results lasted only a few weeks.  We will see in about 2 or 3 weeks if the general trends continue toward weight loss my real goal.  If it doesn't then this was quite a bit of money and effort for some small temporary gains.

         Which brings me to a conclusion about testosterone and HGH and other steroids.  I believe the reason so many go overboard and harm their bodies on the juice as they call it is that the results are very temporary.  So kids end up using more and more in ever longer cycles and with higher and higher dosages.  And Yes without a doctor or lab measurements and cautions they can even die from the stuff.

           Myself I am finished up with my 10 week experiment and will do another measurement in 2 to 3 weeks and then head home to the USA.  I made the decision far in advance not to continue this program after 10 weeks.  I saw it as a medical necessity at age 61 with serious deficiencies in my hormone panel well documented by lab results and the ability to do this under medical supervision.  

           I see DIY as a fool hardy idea that I could just not get behind.

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On 2017-6-4 at 11:01 AM, dontoearth said:

SECOND UPDATE REPORT of May 29:

       Weight loss started again.  I am down to 84.9 Kilo.  However, FFM (Fat Free Mass) decreased by a little less than a kilo.  Fat increased by 1.3 kilo.  Muscle mass shrank back down from 63.8 to 61.8.  However, BMI continues to drop at 26.5 still higher than the 24.9 I am trying achieve for health reasons.  I have high blood pressure!

        What does all of this mean?  Well for one thing the effects of the drugs like testosterone and HGH and the steroids are very fleeting.  My previous post had me walking on air but the results lasted only a few weeks.  We will see in about 2 or 3 weeks if the general trends continue toward weight loss my real goal.  If it doesn't then this was quite a bit of money and effort for some small temporary gains.

         Which brings me to a conclusion about testosterone and HGH and other steroids.  I believe the reason so many go overboard and harm their bodies on the juice as they call it is that the results are very temporary.  So kids end up using more and more in ever longer cycles and with higher and higher dosages.  And Yes without a doctor or lab measurements and cautions they can even die from the stuff.

           Myself I am finished up with my 10 week experiment and will do another measurement in 2 to 3 weeks and then head home to the USA.  I made the decision far in advance not to continue this program after 10 weeks.  I saw it as a medical necessity at age 61 with serious deficiencies in my hormone panel well documented by lab results and the ability to do this under medical supervision.  

           I see DIY as a fool hardy idea that I could just not get behind.

You mean you lost muscle after you stopped testosterone ? Sure it happens usually people also stop training hard then and then you lose more. Most people do keep quite a bit of their gains but not all. 

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1 minute ago, robblok said:

You mean you lost muscle after you stopped testosterone ? Sure it happens usually people also stop training hard then and then you lose more. Most people do keep quite a bit of their gains but not all. 

Only young guys who practice good PCT (post cycle therapy) will keep some of their gains, if and only if they train intelligently and intensely. People like this are few and far between.

 

In reality, people who use steroids (testosterone and its derivatives) to gain muscle soon become psychologically addicted to them (the benefits) and can't do without them. They are doing it the easy way, and when they stop they usually become lazy and lose it all and gain fat to boot.

 

Older people on TRT will fare even worse if they stop. I don't see any reason why they should stop because even if they aren't taking it to gain muscle, they need it for general health purposes.

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37 minutes ago, tropo said:

Only young guys who practice good PCT (post cycle therapy) will keep some of their gains, if and only if they train intelligently and intensely. People like this are few and far between.

 

In reality, people who use steroids (testosterone and its derivatives) to gain muscle soon become psychologically addicted to them (the benefits) and can't do without them. They are doing it the easy way, and when they stop they usually become lazy and lose it all and gain fat to boot.

 

Older people on TRT will fare even worse if they stop. I don't see any reason why they should stop because even if they aren't taking it to gain muscle, they need it for general health purposes.

Keeping your training up is required and good PCT too.. but yes many are lazy and will lose their gains. 

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2 hours ago, robblok said:

You mean you lost muscle after you stopped testosterone ? Sure it happens usually people also stop training hard then and then you lose more. Most people do keep quite a bit of their gains but not all. 

      No still using the testosterone.   The muscle gains just seemed to fall back on their own.  I have seen this before with HRT and HCG.   The gains just don't last very long.  That is the reason many people turn to larger doses and more frequent doses.  And just keep cycling the products.  I have no intention of doing that.

      My training and diet were not changed in anyway.  The  gained muscle weight just fell back.  I am not surprised.  I am really only concerned with weight loss.  I am not a body builder.   I will get one more measurement in a week or two.  I am thinking now that the TRT really did cause a small weight loss but it was $$$$$$.   I am not sure its a solution for most people.    I will have a wrap on this shortly.

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1 minute ago, dontoearth said:

      No still using the testosterone.   The muscle gains just seemed to fall back on their own.  I have seen this before with HRT and HCG.   The gains just don't last very long.  That is the reason many people turn to larger doses and more frequent doses.  And just keep cycling the products.  I have no intention of doing that.

      My training and diet were not changed in anyway.  The  gained muscle weight just fell back.  I am not surprised.  I am really only concerned with weight loss.  I am not a body builder.   I will get one more measurement in a week or two.  I am thinking now that the TRT really did cause a small weight loss but it was $$$$$$.   I am not sure its a solution for most people.    I will have a wrap on this shortly.

That is strange what you are talking about is not something I have ever heard about. Only when stopping do people lose muscle.. or if they train less. Strange anyway .. can't discount your experience. I have always held on my muscle with TRT.

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All these peeps taking all different types of roids are just lazy. You could just pump yourself full of roids and not do any exercise and grow bigger than someone who works their ass off naturally. See below article:

 

The magic bullet” about steroids aka Bhasin et al, 1996

But lo and behold, in 1996 Shalender Bhasin had a paper published in one of the most prestigious medical journals, the New England Journal of Medicine, describing a study that would forever change the view on anabolic steroids (Bhasin et al, 1996). Essentially the study was a double cross-over study in which 43 young healthy normal weight men, were put on standardized diets and then into one of four intervention groups:

  1. No exercise, placebo
  2. No exercise, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly
  3. Resistance exercise 3 times/week, placebo
  4. Resistance exercise 3 times/week, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly

for a period of 10 weeks. For reference, the recommended prescribed dose of testosterone for replacement therapy is 250 mg every 2 to three weeks. So 600 mg/week is preeeeetty supraphysiological, but still well below what is used in lifting circles, even for beginners. Naturally, these guys grew muscle and got leaner, but how much? Bhasin reported that the changes in fat-free mass were as follows, per group:

  1. +0.8 kg
  2. +3.2 kg
  3. +2.0 kg
  4. +6.1 kg

Thereby proving beyond any reasonable doubt that 600 mgs of Testosterone Enanthate per week does indeed cause skeletal muscle hypertrophy and increases in strength (strength data not shown in this blog post).

Sk%C3%A6rmbillede-2016-09-22-kl.-18.00.33-749x1024.png

DATA FROM BHASIN’S LANDMARK STUDY SHOWING ROBUST MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY WITH TESTOSTERONE, EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF TRAINING.

 

But besides showing that testosterone actually works, it also shows that testosterone causes skeletal muscle hypertrophy and strength improvements even in the absence of training! 3.2 kgs of muscle in 10 weeks with no exercise… That’s not too shabby if you ask me. Also, no exercise and testosterone actually worked better than the exercise by itself…

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All these peeps taking all different types of roids are just lazy. You could just pump yourself full of roids and not do any exercise and grow bigger than someone who works their ass off naturally. See below article:
 

The magic bullet” about steroids aka Bhasin et al, 1996

But lo and behold, in 1996 Shalender Bhasin had a paper published in one of the most prestigious medical journals, the New England Journal of Medicine, describing a study that would forever change the view on anabolic steroids (Bhasin et al, 1996). Essentially the study was a double cross-over study in which 43 young healthy normal weight men, were put on standardized diets and then into one of four intervention groups:

  1. No exercise, placebo
  2. No exercise, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly
  3. Resistance exercise 3 times/week, placebo
  4. Resistance exercise 3 times/week, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly

for a period of 10 weeks. For reference, the recommended prescribed dose of testosterone for replacement therapy is 250 mg every 2 to three weeks. So 600 mg/week is preeeeetty supraphysiological, but still well below what is used in lifting circles, even for beginners. Naturally, these guys grew muscle and got leaner, but how much? Bhasin reported that the changes in fat-free mass were as follows, per group:

  1. +0.8 kg
  2. +3.2 kg
  3. +2.0 kg
  4. +6.1 kg

Thereby proving beyond any reasonable doubt that 600 mgs of Testosterone Enanthate per week does indeed cause skeletal muscle hypertrophy and increases in strength (strength data not shown in this blog post).

Sk%25C3%25A6rmbillede-2016-09-22-kl.-18.00.33-749x1024.png DATA FROM BHASIN’S LANDMARK STUDY SHOWING ROBUST MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY WITH TESTOSTERONE, EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF TRAINING.

 

But besides showing that testosterone actually works, it also shows that testosterone causes skeletal muscle hypertrophy and strength improvements even in the absence of training! 3.2 kgs of muscle in 10 weeks with no exercise… That’s not too shabby if you ask me. Also, no exercise and testosterone actually worked better than the exercise by itself…


You do understand that this are levels far exceeding TRT levels ?

That is what we are talking about here. Not the use of it to build muscle. But sure it will help.

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36 minutes ago, robblok said:


You do understand that this are levels far exceeding TRT levels ?

That is what we are talking about here. Not the use of it to build muscle. But sure it will help.

I have no idea what exceeds TRT levels, I don't use any roids :)

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59 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

I have no idea what exceeds TRT levels, I don't use any roids :)

The levels that they are talking about in the article you quoted, they are 3 to 4 times as high as what anyone is taking for TRT, TRT is just topping up to natural (but high) levels. 

 

Though the amounts they are talking about are still low for real bodybuilders. But people here are talking about TRT and those are a lot lower as those mentioned in the article. 

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23 hours ago, robblok said:

Keeping your training up is required and good PCT too.. but yes many are lazy and will lose their gains. 

PCT is only useful if your pre-steroid testosterone production was good. If it was low before, then that's the best you can hope for if you are lucky to kick start it again.

 

When steroid users start to lose muscle after a cycle, they most often lose interest in training or quickly get on them again. It's a vicious cycle.

 

I used to know some competitive bodybuilders who did well in competition, but they could never train without them.

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9 hours ago, bbi1 said:

All these peeps taking all different types of roids are just lazy. You could just pump yourself full of roids and not do any exercise and grow bigger than someone who works their ass off naturally. See below article:

 

1

You don't understand steroid use for bodybuilders. It's not about laziness. Many steroid users are the hardest training athletes in the gym - by far. Steroids give them the ability to train harder and longer without overtraining.

 

Also, you cannot achieve the same end result without the drugs. That's impossible. If you're looking for a jacked physique like you see in the movies, there's only one way to achieve it. A hard working natural athlete will not achieve this level of development.

 

But don't run around thinking steroid users are lazy --- that's nonsense. Some of these guys train for hours EVERY day. There is a limit to how much muscle you can build naturally, and for most people, it isn't much.

 

And please, enough of the Google articles. We all know steroids work.

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11 hours ago, bbi1 said:

All these peeps taking all different types of roids are just lazy. You could just pump yourself full of roids and not do any exercise and grow bigger than someone who works their ass off naturally. See below article:

 

The magic bullet” about steroids aka Bhasin et al, 1996

But lo and behold, in 1996 Shalender Bhasin had a paper published in one of the most prestigious medical journals, the New England Journal of Medicine, describing a study that would forever change the view on anabolic steroids (Bhasin et al, 1996). Essentially the study was a double cross-over study in which 43 young healthy normal weight men, were put on standardized diets and then into one of four intervention groups:

  1. No exercise, placebo
  2. No exercise, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly
  3. Resistance exercise 3 times/week, placebo
  4. Resistance exercise 3 times/week, 600 mg Testosterone Enanthate weekly

for a period of 10 weeks. For reference, the recommended prescribed dose of testosterone for replacement therapy is 250 mg every 2 to three weeks. So 600 mg/week is preeeeetty supraphysiological, but still well below what is used in lifting circles, even for beginners. Naturally, these guys grew muscle and got leaner, but how much? Bhasin reported that the changes in fat-free mass were as follows, per group:

  1. +0.8 kg
  2. +3.2 kg
  3. +2.0 kg
  4. +6.1 kg

Thereby proving beyond any reasonable doubt that 600 mgs of Testosterone Enanthate per week does indeed cause skeletal muscle hypertrophy and increases in strength (strength data not shown in this blog post).

Sk%C3%A6rmbillede-2016-09-22-kl.-18.00.33-749x1024.png

DATA FROM BHASIN’S LANDMARK STUDY SHOWING ROBUST MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY WITH TESTOSTERONE, EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF TRAINING.

 

But besides showing that testosterone actually works, it also shows that testosterone causes skeletal muscle hypertrophy and strength improvements even in the absence of training! 3.2 kgs of muscle in 10 weeks with no exercise… That’s not too shabby if you ask me. Also, no exercise and testosterone actually worked better than the exercise by itself…

      What would a study on 'healthy normal weight young men.' have to do with fat loss for older overweight individuals.  NOTHING!  

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10 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      What would a study on 'healthy normal weight young men.' have to do with fat loss for older overweight individuals.  NOTHING!  

No need to yell and have a roid rage attack lol :shock1:

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