Special Report: Phuket hospitals facing huge losses from uninsured patients

[simoh1490]

Just now, wombat said:

with the turn over of regular paying patients i find this banner hard to believe

 

The hospitals mentioned are governement hospitals not private ones hence most of their patients will be those holding 30 baht type governement insurance. The problem though is the extent of the ageing population in Thailand, just like the UK and the NHS they put the medical care system under strain.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

yea but it makes it look like we are a problem. sure the profit margin is very good off foreigners. actually i suspect the double pricing become quadruple pricing when an insurance company is being billed.

When you say "we", who do you mean, farangs or non-Thai's because there's a huge difference?

 

BTW once again the hospital mentioned is a governement hospital hence I doubt they see very many westerns carrying health insurance that can be billed, those patients will end up at Bangkok/Phuket Hospital.

[upena]

Every year and always only Phuket.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, upena said:

Every year and always only Phuket.

Not so, that Phuket hospital is one of 18 governement hospitals that are in the same position, most are in the North.

 

 

[RigPig]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

actually all they have to do is charge every foreigner 500baht when they enter Thailand and the problem is solved .........................................oh wait they already do that

 

How about stop complaining and take care of visitors here, how many actually end up in hospital and how many end up in hospital because of the none existence of safety

 

 

Thailand needs to take it on the chin and realise that they have a responsibility and duty to take care of people that choose to come here for a holiday............what is 20% of GDP worth

I understand your reasoning but at what point do people take the responsibility for their own actions?  Do you think it is OK for people to come here and expect free medical care when Thailand hasn't the infrastructure of countries like England or Australis etc.  The first thing you have to show to get into Aus is that you will not be a burden on the free medical system.  NONE of these people have or will pay tax here!  My medical insurance costs me $500US a month, and that is my choice, and it doesn't cover me for pre existing conditions either...

[teddog]

13 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Sensible for tourists of course - but what would you suggest for the nearly 3 million resident expats who already live here, many of whom have lived here for ten years or more, are over the 70, have pre-existing conditions and are unable to buy health insurance in Thailand.

Likened to moi, back from India after op ,Thailand price? prob  400,000  to 600,000...India price 35,000   and far better experience

[simoh1490]

12 minutes ago, RigPig said:

I understand your reasoning but at what point do people take the responsibility for their own actions?  Do you think it is OK for people to come here and expect free medical care when Thailand hasn't the infrastructure of countries like England or Australis etc.  The first thing you have to show to get into Aus is that you will not be a burden on the free medical system.  NONE of these people have or will pay tax here!  My medical insurance costs me $500US a month, and that is my choice, and it doesn't cover me for pre existing conditions either...

Sorry to jump in but I live here and I do pay tax, every year I spend at least 800k baht and 7% of that is sales tax. That's 56,000 baht per year, in addition to the tax on houses, cars and other large purchases from time to time. I calculate that I pay around 7k baht a month on average in Thai tax, about half the average national wage, just like many many other expat retirees.

[smedly]

20 minutes ago, RigPig said:

Fair comment, but when I see the Russian family up the road going 4 up on a scooter, the youngest probably about 2 or 3 years old, all wearing helmets but the kids helmets didn't fit (you can't get them that small) and he got annoyed when I said "so you don't love your children" well who's fault is it?  The parents have a choice but the kids don't!!  Who is going to come off worse and who will pay for it when they do?  This sort of thing doesn't happen in England or Australia or anywhere else in the civilised world.  There aren't too many motorbikes in Siberia!!  Why do they think tis is OK here, the locals do it from necessity and it is THEIR country, but when it hits the fan they (tourists) expect 1st world treatment and then go home without paying the bill

That is exactly part of the problem concerning road safety - they have no clue how to enforce laws so they don't bother, your Russian friends wouldn't be doing this if they knew for sure they would be getting stopped by police within 5mins ................................ 4 more potential injured hospitalised people avoided

 

But it isn't just road safety - it is a general safety to do with absolutely everything, like I said, Thailand wants all these people to come here and spend time here and spend money here and yet for decades they have made no attempt to improve the environment and standards..................because that costs money and organisation ................................. they have a cheek to complain about a few million baht when a few tourists get injured or sick out of the trillions they stuff in their greedy pockets every year and have done for decades, Thailand was 3rd world 40 years ago and is still 3rd world today...........what went wrong

[Ulic]

I made use of the Patong hospital a few years back on one of my first trips to Thailand. The

service was excellent and cost was dirt cheap. The bill was only two thousand baht. I felt

a little guilty at being charged so little so I threw another thousand in the donation bow.

I have to agree with the earlier posters that the amount of the losses quoted are surprisingly

small.

[smedly]

22 minutes ago, RigPig said:

I understand your reasoning but at what point do people take the responsibility for their own actions?  Do you think it is OK for people to come here and expect free medical care when Thailand hasn't the infrastructure of countries like England or Australis etc.  The first thing you have to show to get into Aus is that you will not be a burden on the free medical system.  NONE of these people have or will pay tax here!  My medical insurance costs me $500US a month, and that is my choice, and it doesn't cover me for pre existing conditions either...

no I don't, but I also expect Thailand to look after the people they invite to come here (read my above post)

[RigPig]

7 minutes ago, smedly said:

That is exactly part of the problem concerning road safety - they have no clue how to enforce laws so they don't bother, your Russian friends wouldn't be doing this if they knew for sure they would be getting stopped by police within 5mins ................................ 4 more potential injured hospitalised people avoided

 

But it isn't just road safety - it is a general safety to do with absolutely everything, like I said, Thailand wants all these people to come here and spend time here and spend money here and yet for decades they have made no attempt to improve the environment and standards..................because that costs money and organisation ................................. they have a cheek to complain about a few million baht when a few tourists get injured or sick out of the trillions they stuff in their greedy pockets every year and have done for decades, Thailand was 3rd world 40 years ago and is still 3rd world today...........what went wrong

I don't disagree, but (and there is ALWAYS a but) I could answer your question but I would be enroling for "attitude adjustment" haha

Just make sure the terrorists. opps tourists have adequate medical insurance before entry, not complicated really.....

And how much of that sales tax do you really think gets into the hands of the government?  But that's another topic!

[smedly]

1 minute ago, Ulic said:

I made use of the Patong hospital a few years back on one of my first trips to Thailand. The

service was excellent and cost was dirt cheap. The bill was only two thousand baht. I felt

a little guilty at being charged so little so I threw another thousand in the donation bow.

I have to agree with the earlier posters that the amount of the losses quoted are surprisingly

small.

yes I have also had several visits to hospital here and I am quite prepared to pay for it but not when a garbage truck runs me down at a traffic light or when some drunk driver comes through the window when I am eating or when an overloaded not fit for purpose boat sinks or when a gang of thugs beat me to a pulp because they hate farangs or when I am electrocuted or when the lift I am in plunges to the ground or when a crane falls on my head  or when the bus/car train/boat/minibus I am travelling in .................................the list is endless

 

Health and safety - Duty of care

 

Thailand is pretty much an unpoliced unregulated quagmire of extreme danger

 

Land of Smiles 

[MaxLee]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

According to Methavee Maneesri of Vachira Phuket Hospital, when foreign patients are unable to pay their bills, the hospital has to absorb the expenses. Last year alone, the hospital wrote off 4.3 million baht of unpaid bills incurred by foreign patients. Over the last nine years, Vachira Phuket Hospital says it has written off more than 24 million baht in such losses. 

 

Aaaaah I get it,..... it's the patient's fault, as always. Blame the FALANG for getting killed, and get no moneeeeyyy......................... 

[newatthis]

Every year this topic comes out. How many tourists come to Thailand every year? About 30million. If they added 200baht to every visa [solely for health purposes] they'd collect 6 billion baht. If they handled this income honestly they'd have more than enough to cover medical costs for all foreigners.

The key word is honestly.

[Xonax]

If a Thai want to travel to a western country, he or she will have to show medical insurance covering the whole period of the visit, when applying for a visa.  Why not just require tourists in Thailand to show medical insurance, before they can enter the country?  Forgetful tourists could be offered medical insurance at immigration at an increased price.

[Xonax]

14 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Sensible for tourists of course - but what would you suggest for the nearly 3 million resident expats who already live here, many of whom have lived here for ten years or more, are over the 70, have pre-existing conditions and are unable to buy health insurance in Thailand.

That is the exact reason why expats are required to have 400,000 in the bank.  

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

For those who say the amount is small, will it then be oksy for me to go to Europe, UK, US uninsured and get free medical treatment there? Unfortunately not I must provide proof of insurrance before my visa is issued. As for those who have forgotten that the issue of a forced tourist insurrance is as old as this forum. The govrrment wanted to do it a while back but then didnt implement it. 

Many of those who come here without insurrance are dead beats which spend a minimum. I would like a state based system which charge all tourist a flat amount included in your airplane ticket or payable at the border of over land entry. They should also provide an option for expats or long stayers to pay towards medical insurrance. At present my SS contribution is about B 480 per month, so a premium of B 500 pm pp should do. 

[hansnl]

14 hours ago, the guest said:

If the government was smart, it would make it compulsory for all foreigners to have full insurance before a visa would be granted. It solves a lot of problems.

Then there follows the problem many expats can not get insurance or are chucked out reaching 70.

Time for the government to do something about the plan for state insurance, on hold for the last two years.

[smedly]

1 hour ago, henry15 said:

So if some drunk idiot on a motorbike who even don't wear an helmet, has an accident, he should not  have to pay for his medical bills.

if laws were enforced properly he would not be drunk riding a motorbike

[darren84310]

17 hours ago, smedly said:

This country makes a huge amount of money from tourists, it is a vital part of GDP and has been the case for decades, the problem is that there are no safety standards or at least they are not enforced making Thailand (no matter how much they claim otherwise) and extremely dangerous place to holiday.

 

The costs quoted in the OP are not only tiny but are very likely exaggerated, when you consider the actual cost in terms of labour and materials without profit it is no where near what they are quoting.

 

Yes people should have insurance when they go on holiday but equally there is a duty of care to keep visitors safe when they visit Thailand, when they are injured through no fault of their own then Thailand should be willing to step up and compensate. 

 

They have gotten away with this for far too long, they have had decades to improve things but instead stuffed the money in their greedy pockets showing no consideration to improve their health and safety.........and yes I for once agree in this instance of that commonly used Thai phrase - well if they hadn't come to Thailand it wouldn't have happened so it must be their fault, might be time for people to rethink their holiday destinations.

 

If a Thai goes to the UK on holiday they will be treated in hospital like everyone else, the difference being that the likelihood of something happening to them is vastly different.

 

 

So a few million here and there .................so what, you are making trillions in tourism.

Totally agree..... But you forgot to mention the amount of money these businesses (whoops sorry I meant hospitals) rip off from foreigners. I know for a fact they charge Thais a lower rate.

[Xonax]

One can only wonder, how much profit the hospitals in Thailand are making from un-necessary prescriptions or treatments of tourists.  In example; how many hospitals here are happy to prescribe appendectomy surgery on foreigners with any stomach infection, as long as they just receive payment?

If you have visited a hospital in Thailand, you will most likely have been provided with loads of medicine, which in most cases were not necessary.

[impulse]

43 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Sorry to jump in but I live here and I do pay tax, every year I spend at least 800k baht and 7% of that is sales tax. That's 56,000 baht per year, in addition to the tax on houses, cars and other large purchases from time to time. I calculate that I pay around 7k baht a month on average in Thai tax, about half the average national wage, just like many many other expat retirees.

 

56,000 baht a year doesn't cover half the cost of a decent medical policy, especially for someone of retirement age.  

 

You made your contribution to health care your entire working life back home.  Then expect to come to Thailand in your golden years and have it taken care of by paying a pittance into the economy?

[abrahamzvi]

14 hours ago, the guest said:

If the government was smart, it would make it compulsory for all foreigners to have full insurance before a visa would be granted. It solves a lot of problems.

Why can't Thailand adopt the same procedure like the EU countries and many other countries in the world, insisting on tourists proving having medical insurance before being allowed in. This would be in the interest of Thailand as well as that of the tourists. They would know that in case of accident or illness they would enjoy one of the best medical treatment available worldwide.

[simoh1490]

Just now, impulse said:

 

56,000 baht a year doesn't cover half the cost of a decent medical policy, especially for someone of retirement age.  

 

You made your contribution to health care your entire working life back home.  Then expect to come to Thailand in your golden years and have it taken care of by paying a pittance into the economy?

I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm just pointing out to an earlier poster that I (and other expats) pay tax here whereas he claimed we pay no tax at all.

 

But I do disagree that tax represents a pittance, it's half the average monthly wage each month, just on tax.

[simoh1490]

Far too many posters in this thread thinking the word "foreigners' must mean western expats or farangs and that they are being held responsible for this "problem", it doesn't and you aren't, the problem starts with the 150,000 Burmese workers in Phuket who have no health insurance and no money to pay medical bills.

 

I think it's quite conceited on the part of posters who automatically assume their race must be the source of the problem and shows how little they understand about their surroundings here.

[Dukeleto]

2 hours ago, the guest said:

3 million, hardly. Sorry to say Thailand is for Thais, and come here with your conditions expecting the taxpayer to pay for your medical bills?  This isn't Europe.

Lol! I'm pretty sure any foreigner having spent 5 seconds in Thailand knows it isn't Europe. I guess if they did they wouldn't be here.

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

The following article states there is over 300,000 migrant workers in Phuket, half of whom have no medical insurance and cannot/do not pay their bills - the bill for treating migrant workers by the three main governement hospitals in 2016 was a whopping 94 million baht. A write off of 2.7 million baht per year is paltry  when you consider those numbers: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30305745

The Burmese Mother of two has some wonderful "friends" very kind of them to lend her money at 20% interest, wonder if that is per month also.

[SOTIRIOS]

...have read that foreigners' passports are held...until they pay...???

 

...also...might it have to do something with the 'pricing'....???

 

...not enough details to paint the foreigners the bad guys responsible for the fiscal problems of Thai hospitals...

 

...we did read that there are hundreds of Thai hospitals 'in trouble'......

 

...and like several posters mentioned....with all the extras being charged to tourists 'on arrival'.....where does all that money go...

 

...national park heads allegedly pocketed hundreds of millions each year...for years.....too....

 

...if borders are open...then plans should be put in place....

 

..statistically...the number of deaths...injuries...etc...of foreigners......is incomprehensible....!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[wanderluster]

and just who do you think is going to have to pay for this?

[Destiny1990]

What happened with the mandatory personal accident insurance policy up on arrival?immigration could just sell this up on each extension to foreign visitors .1000 bht a month for visitors to cover for them  till max 500,000 bht for any accident hospital bill in Thailand.