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Transfer money to Thailand for Retirement


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6 hours ago, SiamBeast said:

Normally, the law says that you can wire out of Thailand the same amount than you wired in at that bank. For example, if you wired 2 times $100,000 in SCB, then SCB will allow you to wire $200,000 out. If you want to wire more funds out, you'll need a work permit and tax documents, as they want to ensure that foreigners don't come here to take money from Thailand and send it out of the country.

 

Tell your friend that any Thai bank is fine except Krungsri and Kasikorn - they flat out do not allow outgoing international wire transfers, no matter if the money came from abroad.

It's not exactly like that. Just because money was wired in, doesn't mean it can all be wired out again, there's a presumption that at least some of that money was spent on living expenses. Much will depend on the reason stated for the transfer in, if that reason was living expenses, don't expect the bank let you transfer the same amount out again because the presumption will be that you've spent it which is not an unreasonable position to take.

Edited by simoh1490
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15 hours ago, SiamBeast said:

Normally, the law says that you can wire out of Thailand the same amount than you wired in at that bank. For example, if you wired 2 times $100,000 in SCB, then SCB will allow you to wire $200,000 out. If you want to wire more funds out, you'll need a work permit and tax documents, as they want to ensure that foreigners don't come here to take money from Thailand and send it out of the country.

 

Tell your friend that any Thai bank is fine except Krungsri and Kasikorn - they flat out do not allow outgoing international wire transfers, no matter if the money came from abroad.

In theory the Foreign Exchange Transaction forms (and equivalents) that you are issued when you bring money into Thailand for a real estate purchase allow you to easily repatriate such money when you wish to do so at any Thai bank you wish to use.  At least that is my understanding.  I haven't tried to do that so I can't speak from personal experience.  

 

I was aware that unless you had documentation like the FET or similar that you would have a difficult time transferring funds out of Thailand.  I guess someone can also repatriate earnings from working in Thailand with the appropriate work permit and tax documents.  In general the implementation of Bank of Thailand anti-money laundering regulations make it difficult to transfer money out of Thailand without proving where it came from, while transferring money into Thailand is more or less unrestricted.

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2 hours ago, skatewash said:

In theory the Foreign Exchange Transaction forms (and equivalents) that you are issued when you bring money into Thailand for a real estate purchase allow you to easily repatriate such money when you wish to do so at any Thai bank you wish to use.  At least that is my understanding.  I haven't tried to do that so I can't speak from personal experience.  

 

I was aware that unless you had documentation like the FET or similar that you would have a difficult time transferring funds out of Thailand.  I guess someone can also repatriate earnings from working in Thailand with the appropriate work permit and tax documents.  In general the implementation of Bank of Thailand anti-money laundering regulations make it difficult to transfer money out of Thailand without proving where it came from, while transferring money into Thailand is more or less unrestricted.

 

Transferring out of Thailand the proceeds of a property sale is probably the easiest of all since there's a very clear process for that. The banks want to see the blue slip from the tax office showing that tax has been paid on the sale and the value of the sale, that determines how much money you can transfer out. Since the banks act as BOT's agent in implementing exchange controls, they have a vested interest in making sure the correct paper work is produced and that the rules are followed, if they're aren't then BOT can come down on them very hard - this is probably why so many people have difficult transferring funds out of Thailand because ultimately it can mean a banking license if the rules are followed.

 

The other aspect with repatriating house sale proceeds has to do with making a true declaration to the Land Office as to the value of the sale. It's tempting to declare a lesser value in order to reduce the tax on the sale but this is a false economy since it reduces the amount that can be easily transfered out.

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3 hours ago, Evilbaz said:

I've got two words to add to all this complicated discussion - Internet Banking ...

Internet banking doesn't provide any services above and beyond what's capable of being delivered in a branch. If you weren't allowed to transfer funds out at a branch, you certainly wont be able to do so using internet banking.

Edited by simoh1490
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3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Internet banking doesn't provide an services above and beyond what's capable of being delievered in a branch. If you weren't allowed to transfer funds out at a branch, you certainly wont be able to do so using internet banking.

Exactly.

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1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly.

 

This topic started about transferring money into Thailand.

Some have morphed this into discussion about transferring money out.

 

My comment - "internet banking" - refers to the op's questions - exactly.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

 

This topic started about transferring money into Thailand.

Some have morphed this into discussion about transferring money out.

 

My comment - "internet banking" - refers to the op's questions - exactly.

 

 

It makes no sense to discuss the inbound process without understanding FULLY the outbound, the latter being far more complex than the former and representing a potential trap for the unaware.

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For someone looking to transfer money into Thailand it might be reasonable to consider how that money might be transferred out again.  It might even be advisable to consider this before one transfers the money into Thailand rather than after the fact.

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1 hour ago, skatewash said:

For someone looking to transfer money into Thailand it might be reasonable to consider how that money might be transferred out again.  It might even be advisable to consider this before one transfers the money into Thailand rather than after the fact.

That's not applicable to someone who retires here, has no intention whatsoever of returning to their former country of residence and will stay here until they pick a good day to burn me - works for me.

If one intends to go the retirement extension route one needs to transfer money here, either lump sum or monthly. Internet banking is the quickest and easiest way of doing this.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

That's not applicable to someone who retires here, has no intention whatsoever of returning to their former country of residence and will stay here until they pick a good day to burn me - works for me.

If one intends to go the retirement extension route one needs to transfer money here, either lump sum or monthly. Internet banking is the quickest and easiest way of doing this.


 

 

Circumstances change, intentions change.  The knowledge of what it takes to undo one's present intentions should one's circumstances change is potentially useful, especially if as in this case it is much more difficult to transfer money out of Thailand than it is to transfer money in.  

Internet banking is the quickest and easiest way of transferring money into Thailand, but wouldn't you want to know that it's not as quick or easy to go in the other direction?  I know I would.  One of the benefits of reading these fora is to learn things I don't know.  I assume other people benefit in similar ways.  

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2 hours ago, Evilbaz said:

That's not applicable to someone who retires here, has no intention whatsoever of returning to their former country of residence and will stay here until they pick a good day to burn me - works for me.

If one intends to go the retirement extension route one needs to transfer money here, either lump sum or monthly. Internet banking is the quickest and easiest way of doing this.

 

 

It would be interesting to know what percentage of retirees stay until their burn date, my guess is that it's quite small - people run out of money and are forced to go back; exchange rates on fixed income become so expensive they have no choice but to return; medical issues force a return; many right now are cashing in their investment in Thailand and buying nice homes back in the UK especially; some can no longer afford the 800k; relationships end; the list of reasons is not short.

 

And whilst internet banking is effective and extremely useful, their can be problems using it from Thailand to access an overseas account in the UK or US, many British retirees have had their accounts closed since they are no longer UK resident. Perhaps a more useful method of transfer is to set up direct deposit facilities with pension providers etc., Bangkok Bank direct deposit from the US or UK is cost effective and efficient, as are direct deposits from UK and US state pension/SSc accounts which will deposit monthly payments in THB, direct to a a Thai based account - such transfers can be monthly, quarterly or half yearly and eliminates any risk associated with internet account access over insecure and slow comms. links here.

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34 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

many British retirees have had their accounts closed since they are no longer UK resident.

If you become UK non resident having opened an account while UK resident, you can have your primary address overseas without any issues. There is no rule or law against this.

 

The problem comes if you are UK non resident and you want to open a UK bank account. In this instance the banks would offer an offshore international account such as Jersey or Gibraltar.

 

My Singaporean nieces have had their Lloyds UK bank accounts since 1999 and 2001 respectively. The accounts were opened while they were at University and now they reside back in Singapore they continue to keep the accounts active for when they visit the UK on holidays.

 

 

Edited by Flustered
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3 hours ago, Flustered said:

If you become UK non resident having opened an account while UK resident, you can have your primary address overseas without any issues. There is no rule or law against this.

 

The problem comes if you are UK non resident and you want to open a UK bank account. In this instance the banks would offer an offshore international account such as Jersey or Gibraltar.

 

My Singaporean nieces have had their Lloyds UK bank accounts since 1999 and 2001 respectively. The accounts were opened while they were at University and now they reside back in Singapore they continue to keep the accounts active for when they visit the UK on holidays.

 

 

And indeed I've had my HSBC UK account for over thirty years, fifteen of them whilst I have lived in Thailand. But about two years ago HSBC, along with many other banks, underwent a program to know their customers and understand who was doing what etc, it was called Project Safeguard. Only those with overseas addresses were selected and were subject to a hour and a half telephone interview about every aspect of their financial affairs, on the basis of that interview, some were allowed to keep their account (I was one such person) but others were asked to close them.

 

Ditto the above with Nationwide International in the IOM as their office was scheduled to close, some customers were allowed to transfer their account to an onshore branch, others were told to close them, mine was closed. So the rules are not crystal clear and different rules apply to different people, the rules in the US I gather are far more onerous where I have read here that many accounts are closed as soon as the bank gets a whiff of the account holder living in Thailand.

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2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

And indeed I've had my HSBC UK account for over thirty years, fifteen of them whilst I have lived in Thailand. But about two years ago HSBC, along with many other banks, underwent a program to know their customers and understand who was doing what etc, it was called Project Safeguard. Only those with overseas addresses were selected and were subject to a hour and a half telephone interview about every aspect of their financial affairs, on the basis of that interview, some were allowed to keep their account (I was one such person) but others were asked to close them.

 

Ditto the above with Nationwide International in the IOM as their office was scheduled to close, some customers were allowed to transfer their account to an onshore branch, others were told to close them, mine was closed. So the rules are not crystal clear and different rules apply to different people, the rules in the US I gather are far more onerous where I have read here that many accounts are closed as soon as the bank gets a whiff of the account holder living in Thailand.

I am sorry you may or may not have had a bank account closed but you are the sole person 

I have ever heard of such a thing happening to. HSBC is not a British bank, the clue is in the

HS. The banks do from time to time tighten up their procedures in an effort to beat money

laundering, amongst other things, but closing accounts, I doubt that. Do you have any reference

to these " many bank accounts are closed "? 

I have worked and lived overseas for most of my working life, +/- 35 years with expats from many

countries and I have yet to hear of anyone ever having their bank account closed for living abroad.

Sorry IMHO your post is fiction.

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On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:14 AM, YetAnother said:

from usa use bangkok bank branch  in nyc; it is a domestic transfer within the usa; low service fee, good exchange rate; been using it for years

yup.... and they have the still exclusive US Social Security direct deposit relationship, yes? 

no shennanagins all the way around.

the other games folks play that are worried they need to hide that they are here... etc.. but for which the USA has no assurances on.... BBL makes sure you don't have an ATM on the Soc Sec deposits.... most likely would have all kinds of ways to get fees and things off the fx rate in X decimals... plus... down the line.... issues and hassles for not just using BBL and showing your face at the counter.

isn't that the skinny?

 

the green motif bank Kasikorn has the same deal on transfers but from LA, but not any deal on USA Soc Security, the last I know. 



  

 

Edited by maewang99
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1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

I am sorry you may or may not have had a bank account closed but you are the sole person 

I have ever heard of such a thing happening to. HSBC is not a British bank, the clue is in the

HS. The banks do from time to time tighten up their procedures in an effort to beat money

laundering, amongst other things, but closing accounts, I doubt that. Do you have any reference

to these " many bank accounts are closed "? 

I have worked and lived overseas for most of my working life, +/- 35 years with expats from many

countries and I have yet to hear of anyone ever having their bank account closed for living abroad.

Sorry IMHO your post is fiction.

HSBC is a British Bank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC

 

And all you would have had to do to verify what I wrote is true is to have read any of the many threads on this subject over the past two years or so, it's your choice if you don't wish to believe them or me however, here's one such thread:

Here's another about Safeguard at HSBC:

 

Edited by simoh1490
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1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

I am sorry you may or may not have had a bank account closed but you are the sole person 

I have ever heard of such a thing happening to. HSBC is not a British bank, the clue is in the

HS. The banks do from time to time tighten up their procedures in an effort to beat money

laundering, amongst other things, but closing accounts, I doubt that. Do you have any reference

to these " many bank accounts are closed "? 

I have worked and lived overseas for most of my working life, +/- 35 years with expats from many

countries and I have yet to hear of anyone ever having their bank account closed for living abroad.

Sorry IMHO your post is fiction.

You can read more about the "fictional" Safeguard program here (although it's not likely to be happening because you haven't heard about it):

 

http://www.business.hsbc.uk/en-gb/gb/campaign sub page/frequently-asked-questions

Quote

What happens if I don't provide the information?
Ultimately, if we don't receive your up-to-date information we may not be able to provide you with all of our services. We need to ensure you're fully protected from financial fraud and crime - if we don't have the right information, we can't do this. As soon as we receive your information, we'll update our records - so you won't be contacted again.

 

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Everytime I leave my home country (Australia) the Immigration computer automatically connects to several other government departments who are then fully aware I am overseas.

No point in trying to hide that fact.

Nobody cares and I maintain an OZ address which satisfies my bank, even though they have also an overseas mailing address for me.

Direct deposits from Pension providers to my Thai bank account is possible but I'd take a haircut on the rates.

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1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

HSBC is a British Bank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC

 

And all you would have had to do to verify what I wrote is true is to have read any of the many threads on this subject over the past two years or so, it's your choice if you don't wish to believe them or me however, here's one such thread:

Here's another about Safeguard at HSBC:

 

Your first link is about the closure of a bank so yes if the bank closes then all accounts will close no?

Your second link is 18 months old and relates to security and safeguard issue which as I previously

said all banks review from time to time and reading the thread I see nothing about closing accounts

because you live overseas, only if you cannot or will not meet the required criteria is there any mention of accounts having any problems..............

So still no evidence to support your " many bank accounts are closed " notion.

The op is about transferring money to support an application for a retirement extension

and you lot have turned it into a major banking dilemma. :clap2:well done. 

Edited by phuketjock
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2 hours ago, phuketjock said:

Your first link is about the closure of a bank so yes if the bank closes then all accounts will close no?

Your second link is 18 months old and relates to security and safeguard issue which as I previously

said all banks review from time to time and reading the thread I see nothing about closing accounts

because you live overseas, only if you cannot or will not meet the required criteria is there any mention of accounts having any problems..............

So still no evidence to support your " many bank accounts are closed " notion.

The op is about transferring money to support an application for a retirement extension

and you lot have turned it into a major banking dilemma. :clap2:well done. 

For your own sake and for the sake of getting the correct answer out there for everyone else, you might want to do just a teeny bit of research and read more of the posts that have been made on this subject over time. I however am not in the business of searching out proof and further supportive evidence of my claims, just to keep you happy!

 

FWIW the HSBC Safeguard program was a one off, created in response to money laundering charges in the US, it is not part of a periodic review it was a major reassessment of which overseas customers they wanted to keep and which they didn't, there's been plenty of posts on TVF from unhappy posters who have had their accounts closed and who were looking for a new place to bank. It's your choice to believe or not, I really don't care what you think.

 

EDIT to add: Nationwide didn't close BTW, just their Isle of Mann branch, that's all.

Edited by simoh1490
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1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

For your own sake and for the sake of getting the correct answer out there for everyone else, you might want to do just a teeny bit of research and read more of the posts that have been made on this subject over time. I however am not in the business of searching out proof and further supportive evidence of my claims, just to keep you happy!

 

FWIW the HSBC Safeguard program was a one off, created in response to money laundering charges in the US, it is not part of a periodic review it was a major reassessment of which overseas customers they wanted to keep and which they didn't, there's been plenty of posts on TVF from unhappy posters who have had their accounts closed and who were looking for a new place to bank. It's your choice to believe or not, I really don't care what you think.

Again with the generalisation " there's been plenty of posts on TVF from unhappy posters who have had their 

accounts closed " tell me where ????? If there are so many it should be very easy to point them out no??

Your condescending superior attitude makes your post even less plausible. As the saying goes " Put your money

where your mouth is ".

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Just now, phuketjock said:

Again with the generalisation " there's been plenty of posts on TVF from unhappy posters who have had their 

accounts closed " tell me where ????? If there are so many it should be very easy to point them out no??

Your condescending superior attitude makes your post even less plausible. As the saying goes " Put your money

where your mouth is ".

Do your own research, if you don't know how to use the TVF search function, Admin will provide instructions - you and me, we're done here.

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As a "professional" ex pat, I have lived and traveled in many countries ranging from the Americas to Africa, Middle East and Asia. I have only been UK resident for the last 5 years.

 

At no time has my bank ever questioned my residential status or told me it would close my accounts. I know of no one (UK) who has ever had their bank account closed or threatened to be closed because they are non UK resident. I have already set up the details with Lloyds for transactions to both Singapore (UOB) and Thailand (UOB) and they are happy to do this with either country as my prime address.

 

The only issue is for anyone who does not have a UK bank account and is non UK resident and then they are offered an off shore account.

 

If anyone has had a UK bank account and then become non resident and the bank has closed their account for this fact, could they post their bank name and when the account was closed.

 

That would settle the issue.

Edited by Flustered
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3 minutes ago, Flustered said:

As a "professional" ex pat, I have lived and traveled in many countries ranging from the Americas to Africa, Middle east and Asia. I have only been UK resident for the last 5 years.

 

At no time has my bank ever questioned my residential status or told me it would close my accounts. I know of no one (UK) who has ever had their bank account closed or threatened to be closed because they are non UK resident. I have already set up the details with Lloyds for transactions to both Singapore (UOB) and Thailand (UOB) and they are happy to do this with either country as my prime address.

 

The only issue is for anyone who does not have a UK bank account and is non UK resident and then they are offered an off shore account.

 

If anyone has had a UK bank account and then become non resident and the bank has closed their account for this fact, could they post their bank name and when the account was closed.

 

That would settle the issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/26/hsbc-closed-bank-accounts

http://www.expatsblog.com/news/1410146306/uk-banks-closing-expat-accounts-

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/america-expat-forum-expats-living-america/712786-hsbc-premier-keep-closing-my-international-accounts.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/11789332/US-threatens-to-close-expats-UK-accounts.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31908671

 

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8 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Everyone a blog or rumour with no actual facts behind it. Some not even about UK banks situated in the UK. We know the US is different but still no proof of UK banks doing this. Did you even read these links you posted?

 

Not one actual incident of a UK citizen having a UK bank account, becoming non resident and then having it closed for that reason.

 

Potential money laundering...... yes. legitimate non resident........no.

 

P.S.

 

Just carried out a TV search for "my UK bank account closed"....No hits or references at all in TV.

Edited by Flustered
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