Feeling unwelcome in LOS

[anotheruser]

So lately a lot of people seem to convey the feeling that they feel unwelcome here. They cite unfriendly locals, higher prices, dual pricing, unfavorable visa terms, inability to buy land, a military Junta, high taxes on imports and the list goes on. I can feel the pain but my question at this point would be how many of us would stay as a guest in a home, hotel or restaurant where we think that we are obviously unwelcome? 

 

I know there is the no money crowd that clings to the apron strings because of nowhere else to go but surely that is a slim minority? Why are farang in LOS the first to complain but seem to be moths to a flame? 

 

I get the feeling if the visa regulations tightened up substantially there would be no shortage of guys trying to climb the wall even if they put out edicts on  a PA and poured boiling tar on people. The comments would always be the same... "I will not carry 20,000 Baht through the airport. You can not make me pay for a visa!!!! I deserve to own land here!!! You can not deny me my civil rights!!!!" etc. ad nauseam. 

 

Why is it so hard to take the subtle hints that have been forthcoming for nearly two decades and bow out graciously? I guess if people are beginning to feel so unwelcome and abused here why don't they take the hint? Why do people stay in a country they feel they will never have equal rights in and continue to suffer what they perceive to be continuous abuse at the hands of their families, local people and the current government?

 

 

 

 

 

[starky]

Well I ask myself this a bit. As you say there are many "trapped" here who live on a pittance and for them, I guess, the logic is its better to eke out an existenece here than be a pauper in their own country, so in effect, dont actually really like much about Thailand at all except the weather and the cheap beer. I am sure there are more than a few who dont live or just holiday occassionally here who just love a Thai bash.Then there are those who use this forum to vent who care about the topics to varying degrees but intend to do nothing about it but whinge. Others have just been here too long and have got to the stage where everything Thai shits them and of course there are those that are just miserable <deleted> who would complain about everything no matter where they lived.

[swissie]

The majority of Expats refuse to accept the fact that Thailands "Immigration Concept" is as follows:

- Tourists with money IN. After 3 weeks OUT (having spent their "Holiday-Money").

- Expats (Officially): Good guys in, bad guys out. Inofficially: Rich guys in, poor guys out !

The entire TM 28 outrage is only one step to "wear them down". More of such "cleansing-measures" to follow, for sure!

Of course, Expats having invested their life-savings in a country not even providing elementary "Legal-Certainty", are tempted to go into a state of denial, preferring to ignore "the writing on the wall".
Cheers.

[starky]

9 minutes ago, swissie said:

The majority of Expats refuse to accept the fact that Thailands "Immigration Concept" is as follows:

- Tourists with money IN. After 3 weeks OUT (having spent their "Holiday-Money").

- Expats (Officially): Good guys in, bad guys out. Inofficially: Rich guys in, poor guys out !

The entire TM 28 outrage is only one step to "wear them down". More of such "cleansing-measures" to follow, for sure!

Of course, Expats having invested their life-savings in a country not even providing elementary "Legal-Certainty", are tempted to go into a state of denial, preferring to ignore "the writing on the wall".
Cheers.

Whats wrong with wealthy in poor out? Most countries would rather have their immigrants with some wealth than providing virtually nothing to the economy. Particularly those that need to move to a developing country to make their dollar stretch further.

[janclaes47]

2 minutes ago, starky said:

Whats wrong with wealthy in poor out? Most countries would rather have their immigrants with some wealth than providing virtually nothing to the economy. Particularly those that need to move to a developing country to make their dollar stretch further.

Last time I checked immigrants in LOS, rich or poor, don't get social benefits like in most countries

[starky]

44 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

Last time I checked immigrants in LOS, rich or poor, don't get social benefits like in most countries

Well most of us are non immigrants, and I don't want or desire any social benefits. I take care of my own welfare. 

[Los Luver]

2 hours ago, anotheruser said:

So lately a lot of people seem to convey the feeling that they feel unwelcome here. They cite unfriendly locals, higher prices, dual pricing, unfavorable visa terms, inability to buy land, a military Junta, high taxes on imports and the list goes on. I can feel the pain but my question at this point would be how many of us would stay as a guest in a home, hotel or restaurant where we think that we are obviously unwelcome? 

 

I know there is the no money crowd that clings to the apron strings because of nowhere else to go but surely that is a slim minority? Why are farang in LOS the first to complain but seem to be moths to a flame? 

 

I get the feeling if the visa regulations tightened up substantially there would be no shortage of guys trying to climb the wall even if they put out edicts on  a PA and poured boiling tar on people. The comments would always be the same... "I will not carry 20,000 Baht through the airport. You can not make me pay for a visa!!!! I deserve to own land here!!! You can not deny me my civil rights!!!!" etc. ad nauseam. 

I jump to the conclusion and I say: I disagree with you in many points. The reason is cause I think different !!!!

- Higher prices: The prices are higher everywhere. That's common thing. Prices always get higher....

- Dual prices: That's normal. The aim of having millions visiting Thailand is to earn money. Some of that money is, as matter of fact, used for the well being of the tourists. Just as example: Tourist police, this is a police unit that is made for serving the tourists. The state has a huge number of police officers working in the borders and at the BKK airport !!! without all the tourists LoS wouldn't need that number.....All the infrastructure built in most visited cities.....

As you know Not many people pay taxes in Los. that's one of the reasons why too many of national products are cheap in Thailand. this is a huge subject but i think it's enough what i mentioned...

- Unfavorable visa terms: Well, I think 30 days visa for free is good enough. If you are thinking about 800K baht for a long visa, well, that a security and that's a part of the first point I explained above. They have to, to make sure that they have benefit from people who want stay and to make sure that people have means to stay in the country without doing a job that a Thai national would do. As I remarked that there are many farangs staying in LoS, either working or doing crimes to earn for their livings. Imagine how much it costs to fight crimes done by foreigners.

- Inability to buy land: That is very annoying for me too. But I do completely understand. You see Thailand is very cheap. Imagine if we got the right to own the land, how much would it be left for nationals... And that's not all the reason behind it. Imagine, 1 million foreigners buy the 3rd of the country...  Well, Thailand would be called ThaifrLand !!! think about what that word would mean. Some kind of Zimbawe !!!

- We are unwelcome !!!  Not true

We are always welcome as long as we come for visiting Thailand and spend money. Or we stay for longer period with our means.

 

I will state something, worth to mention: We, in Europe,  experienced these last years and especially summer 2015 that huge wave of Syrians seeking asylum. The main reason why too many countries said no to welcome those people, is they come with no money. If each one of them had a million Dollars, well, the countries in south, like Greece, Slovenia.....they would fight to get more of them in the country.....

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, starky said:

Well I ask myself this a bit. As you say there are many "trapped" here who live on a pittance and for them, I guess, the logic is its better to eke out an existenece here than be a pauper in their own country, so in effect, dont actually really like much about Thailand at all except the weather and the cheap beer. I am sure there are more than a few who dont live or just holiday occassionally here who just love a Thai bash.Then there are those who use this forum to vent who care about the topics to varying degrees but intend to do nothing about it but whinge. Others have just been here too long and have got to the stage where everything Thai shits them and of course there are those that are just miserable <deleted> who would complain about everything no matter where they lived.

There is always one that mentions cheap beer - in this thread that honour falls on you.

Where are you from? Saudi Arabia? Cheap beer? Please! It is not cheap, and "beer" is a word you seem to use loosely.

[starky]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

There is always one that mentions cheap beer - in this thread that honour falls on you.

Where are you from? Saudi Arabia? Cheap beer? Please! It is not cheap, and "beer" is a word you seem to use loosely.

Geez I wonder why it gets mentioned? Just look at Pattaya, Phuket, Bangkok full of old pissheads nursing beers at 9 in the morning or you could do  a little search on ThaiVisa and see just how many threads there are about beer and beer prices going up and beer volume getting smaller but the price remaining the same or better yet riveting threads extolling the virtues of beer from 7-11 and which are the cheapest but will get you the most pissed. Imported beers not so cheap but a big bottle of chang, leo or singa @50 baht, please thats ridiculous. If you think thats expensive your stuffed. Im an Aussie mate and mentioning beer once in a thread to illustrate a point is far from loosely. Cheers wally.

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, starky said:

Geez I wonder why it gets mentioned?Do a little search on ThaiVisa and see just how many threads there are about beer and beer prices going up and beer volume getting smaller but the price remaining the same and so on . Imported beers not so cheap but a big bottle of chang, leo or singa @50 baht, please thats ridiculous. If you think thats expensive your stuffed. Im an Aussie mate and mentioning beer once in a thread to illustrate a point is far from loosely. 

Listen Bruce, I am Belgian, and I claim that Thai "beer" is 1/not beer and 2/overpriced.

As the other Bruce said: Drinking Thai beer is like making love in a boat - it's f###ing close to water.

 

[starky]

37 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Listen Bruce, I am Belgian, and I claim that Thai "beer" is 1/not beer and 2/overpriced.

As the other Bruce said: Drinking Thai beer is like making love in a boat - it's f###ing close to water.

 

 Then dont drink it or drink imported Belgian beer and pay the price or buy less beer or dont drink at all. Up to you. Now if you want to get back on topic im happy to..but thanks for helping me illustrate my point.

[morrobay]

4 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

Last time I checked immigrants in LOS, rich or poor, don't get social benefits like in most countries

There are millions of social benefits here. Have you checked Pattaya? 

[BigKahuna]

The country isn't the problem. Some people are just never happy. I have known people who have changed houses/jobs/location/partners and they are the same whingers they always were. Best to let them be. Happy being miserable.

[Anythingleft?]

My thoughts are that it is the ones that try to abide by the rules that feel the most unwelcome, do the paperwork and pay the tariffs but still get the same crappy attitude from the officials. At least if you try to gather the realms of paperwork and copies and then make the effort to complete the requirements and payments correctly and on time it would be nice to at least have some kind of assistance and positive attitude when doing the processes. There are a lot of instances where the hospitals are being taken by foreigners with no insurance but as for any other type of social assistance I dont think it exists?
There is only so much you can or will put into an economy if you have no legal rights of ownership or protection


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[CharlieH]

In very simple terms, most people arrive here having lived the majority of their life playing "chess".

They then move to a country where only "tidlly-winks" is played.

Instead of learning to play "tidly-winks" better, they insist on trying to teach the country chess, and then complain because they cant achieve it.

[thaiguzzi]

# unfriendly locals - not where i live. Possibly in the tourist ghettos, dog eat dog world. Understandable if i was a local having to deal with a job involving foreigners/tourists, day in day out, month after month, year after...

# higher prices - same the world over. Nowhere is getting cheaper.

# dual pricing - never happened to me in 14 years. In fact a lot of stuff i can buy cheaper than the Thais; m/c parts, building materials etc etc, because

  1. i speak the lingo, and even better, in the local dialect.

  2. i'm not shy to barter.

# visas - ok got me on that one. Agree.

# Inability to buy land - been like this forever, aint gonna change, did'nt put me off. Bought land, built house, built business, Mrs's name, no problem for me.

# military junta - been several coups before i came, during and no doubt again in the future. This is SE Asia, not the West, not the same and never will be.

# high taxes on imports. Again this is not a recent thing. I moved here in 2003, have a lot of parts imported over the years, paid a lot of tax, moved household and workshop possessions over here in my own containers. It's not changed, in fact at least the Post Office service is 200% better.

# So the list goes on, but basically nothing has changed or got worse generally for expats. In fact a whole bunch of stuff has got better over the years.

  Depends where you live. And your outlook on life. Me? my glass is still half full...

 

[colinneil]

Why would any farang feel unwelcome here?

We are loved and wanted infact even cherished by locals.

 

 

Ohh sorry i just woke up from my dream.

[hawker9000]

14 hours ago, starky said:

Well most of us are non immigrants, and I don't want or desire any social benefits. I take care of my own welfare. 

And that's true here, home, or anywhere.

[brewsterbudgen]

As the OP says, feeling unwelcome here is something only a few people feel, most likely due to their individual circumstances. I've been here nearly 13 years and never once felt unwelcome. If I did, I'd leave!

[Pinot]

Wa wa wa...leave

 

[mstevens]

I am someone who felt increasingly unwelcome and left.  OK, so I never really lived in Thailand full-time but I spent more time there than in Australia.  Now I spend more time in Australia and visit Thailand for 2 or 3 month stints.  I find splitting my time between the two countries but importantly, spending more time in Australia, is a nice life and I don't get bored.  I find Thailand fun to visit but if I stay more than about 8 or 10 weeks the small things that irritate become too much to handle and I need to get away.  I have found that going backwards and forwards between my homeland and Thailand keeps life interesting.

 

I do have to agree with you that those who whine about Thailand incessantly ought to leave.  I do get the feeling, however, that some might not be in a financial situation to leave, or at least the money they have might not offer much of a life at home and they are effectively stuck in Thailand.  Living in Australia ain't cheap and if you complain about prices in Thailand, don't ever come here!

[oldhippy]

We live in a non touristy area in (almost) the middle of nowhere.

 

I feel very welcomed by my wife's tropical garden, the climate (September-March), the house & swimming pool that I built.

The local Thais (incl family) are neither particularly welcoming or non welcoming - I have little in common with most of them. I concentrate on a few and ignore the rest.

The government officials are very unwelcoming, but hey, they don't even welcome their own countrymen..... 

As for the touristy places, I have never been there, but I guess they are full of money hungry Thais trying to take advantage of sex & alcohol hungry farangs. Not my problem.

 

April - august we spend in Europe - another part of the world that is neither particularly welcoming or unwelcoming.

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

I wonder why people who complain so much about Thailand bother to post at all, why are they even here and not somewhere more agreeable? Which raises the question, how many people who are complaining are actually in Thailand and if so, for longer than three weeks per year?

[yellowboat]

15 hours ago, starky said:

Whats wrong with wealthy in poor out?

For most it would seem frivolous .   Many of the "Thai" wealthy came from China and had to run from the authorities once the boat hit the beach.  Participating in the Thai market place is hard for two reasons; government rules and the complacency of the population.  The government is the greatest hindrance to entrepreneurship for both foreigners and Thais. 

 

It is easier to work Thailand from the outside rather from the inside.  Wonderful resources and opportunities, but not a great place to base oneself. 

[BigKahuna]

7 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

We live in a non touristy area in (almost) the middle of nowhere.

 

I feel very welcomed by my wife's tropical garden, the climate (September-March), the house & swimming pool that I built.

The local Thais (incl family) are neither particularly welcoming or non welcoming - I have little in common with most of them. I concentrate on a few and ignore the rest.

The government officials are very unwelcoming, but hey, they don't even welcome their own countrymen..... 

As for the touristy places, I have never been there, but I guess they are full of money hungry Thais trying to take advantage of sex & alcohol hungry farangs. Not my problem.

 

April - august we spend in Europe - another part of the world that is neither particularly welcoming or unwelcoming.

 

 

 

Sounds right. Dogs are more living.

[dotpoom]

It has been my experience that the people you refer to as "moaners" would be moaning no matter what the circumstances were.

I think.I am being treated no worse than people in my position are being treated back home.

[1FinickyOne]

Just stirring the pot here? 

 

The only place I see discontent among foreigners here, is on this forum... but that's just me and where i live and who I know... 

 

I guess there are discontents in Disney land and the overcrowded "hot spots" - which are barely reminiscent of Thailand. But if they don't like it, of course, they can leave but they might find more to complain about when they get home. I am getting requests from people who want info on moving here... 

[simoh1490]

7 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

For most it would seem frivolous .   Many of the "Thai" wealthy came from China and had to run from the authorities once the boat hit the beach.  Participating in the Thai market place is hard for two reasons; government rules and the complacency of the population.  The government is the greatest hindrance to entrepreneurship for both foreigners and Thais. 

 

It is easier to work Thailand from the outside rather from the inside.  Wonderful resources and opportunities, but not a great place to base oneself. 

My take on the history is that entrepreneurial Chinese settled here and married Thai's to gain residency, another substantial group gained entry via the two  army battalions of the Thai army staffed with Chinese and Taiwanese recruits, a third group comes by way of hill tribes, Shan state and all that entails.

 

In northern Thailand in particular there are massive amounts of Chinese owned businesses and even Chinese communities dotted around that wouldn't be out of place in rural China. I don't know how welcoming the Thai government is towards such people but it appears very few of them let any lack of welcome get in their way, they simply get on with things, build businesses and make money - perhaps there's a lesson there for some of the complainers - I wonder how many of those Chinese are sat at their keyboards right now complaining how unwelcome Thailand makes them feel, I'm betting not more than one or two!

[anotheruser]

58 minutes ago, Pinot said:

Wa wa wa...leave

 

That is sort of the point of my OP. I am leaving myself not really because I feel all that unwelcome but because I prefer to live somewhere else. I was just curious as to why Thailand has such a large population of people who feel unwelcome yet cling to dear life to stay here.

 

You know the kind you find slagging everything off and then pop up in threads asking if they can enter on a 6th consecutive VE. To me it seems some of the other posters are probably right they emptied out here and now hate it but have nowhere to go.

 

It begins to seem like somebody who complains about living in their Mom's basement. Instead of being happy to have a place to stay they grumble because in order to stay there they must play by the rules of the house.

 

Interesting replies in this thread. To those that have directly commented about me I again am leaving. This is about people who will never be happy here but never leave voluntarily.

 

 

[cruisemonkey]

I used to vacation in Thailand four months a year - 2 winter, 2 summer. I got the (not so subtle) hint and have stopped coming.