Don't kowtow to stupid Thai edicts

[boomerangutang]

For farang residing in Thailand, we know that it's best to always do what Thai authorities tell us to do.  However, if you're brave, you may sometimes speak up and question a dictate, if you think the edict is ridiculous.  I've done it several times, and usually (but not always) get my way.   Below are 2 examples, one where I lost and one where I won. . . . . . . .

 

Lost:  I have 3 properties.  Because I'm farang, the electricity accounts have to be in Thai peoples' names.  One of the accounts is in a name of a Thai friend who died 16 years ago, but anyhow..... I went to PEA (Electric Company) to request to get the accounts changed to my name.  I put in the electric services (paid for all the materials/labor) and pay 100% of the bills.  PEA boss gruffly refused. 

 

Won:  I had a Thai corporation.  I chose to let it die.  At the provincial center, a bureaucrat insisted I needed to pay a lot of money for that to happen.  I paid him some.  Then, when he wanted more, I went to a Thai lawyer.  He took money, and said to go back and pay more money to the bureaucrat.  I didn't.  Instead, I went to another gov't building which I vaguely recalled going to years earlier.  I stood in the entry hall, looking at the 63 accountants who were all looking back at the odd farang.  A woman came forth who spoke some English.  I told her my dilemma.  She said, "do nothing."   I did nothing, and all is well.  Her free two-word advice was the best counseling!   I should go back and give her a fruit bowl and flowers.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by boomerangutang

[kannot]

Many in authority seem to think they cannot be questioned and rely  on their "position" and Thai societies culture controls.

When they meet  my Wife they usually get a  shock, she deals with crap like this  all day.

It is changing due to the internet, I reckon as more see and question....and so they should

[impulse]

3 rules I adopted when I moved to Asia 16 years ago:

 

Just because someone else got away with it, doesn't mean I can.

Just because I got away with it last year doesn't mean I can do it again this time.

Just because I think I know what happened, doesn't mean that I understand what really happened.

 

Stand up to authority at your own peril.  Feels great when it works.  But they can make your life miserable, if not impossible.

 

Edit:  And Asians are patient.  They may take years to come back and bite you in the ass.

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by impulse

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

 I have 3 properties.  Because I'm farang, the electricity accounts have to be in Thai peoples' names.

Don't get that one. 

[jeab1980]

Dont understand your lose bit regarding PEA. Electric for my gaff is in my name no problems whatsoever. 

[Stradavarius37]

You really showed them OP lmao

Sent from my SM-N920C using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

My experience in life it's that it's amazing how often that DO NOTHING turns out to be the wisest action. But, alas, not always. 

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

Dont understand your lose bit regarding PEA. Electric for my gaff is in my name no problems whatsoever. 

                         You have an account in your farang name?  If so, I'd like to know the office you're connected to, so I can refer the headman at my office to reference your office.   Something tells me you won't want to tell me the name of your office, because it may jeopardize your situation.  I wouldn't blame you.  

 

                         Thai laws, as they apply to farang, are subjective on several levels.  I was once driving a car with a farang in the passenger seat.  I made a turn, going 2 mph, where it was slightly illegal.  A cop pulled the car over.  My friend shuffled quickly through his wallet and pulled out a dog-eared piece of paper with some Thai writing on it, about the size of a biz card.  He waved it in the officer's face.  The officer squinted as he read the one line of script, then handed the card back and waved us on with a grin.

 

                            It turns out the card had some reference to a member of the Royal family.  I don't know what it said or who issued it, but it was like a 'get out of jail free' card.   If a couple of scruffy farang can successfully use a card like that, imagine what privileges rich VIP's can get.  Heck, if they're rich enough, they can get their cop-killing kids off the hook with no legal repercussions.

[jeab1980]

20 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                         You have an account in your farang name?  If so, I'd like to know the office you're connected to, so I can refer the headman at my office to reference your office.   Something tells me you won't want to tell me the name of your office, because it may jeopardize your situation.  I wouldn't blame you.  

 

                         Thai laws, as they apply to farang, are subjective on several levels.  I was once driving a car with a farang in the passenger seat.  I made a turn, going 2 mph, where it was slightly illegal.  A cop pulled the car over.  My friend shuffled quickly through his wallet and pulled out a dog-eared piece of paper with some Thai writing on it, about the size of a biz card.  He waved it in the officer's face.  The officer squinted as he read the one line of script, then handed the card back and waved us on with a grin.

 

                            It turns out the card had some reference to a member of the Royal family.  I don't know what it said or who issued it, but it was like a 'get out of jail free' card.   If a couple of scruffy farang can successfully use a card like that, imagine what privileges rich VIP's can get.  Heck, if they're rich enough, they can get their cop-killing kids off the hook with no legal repercussions.

Pm sent

[richard_smith237]

Upon arriving at Suvarnabumi after a month in the UK the immigration officers insisted on 'stamping me' in for one day, as my extension of stay (work) expired the next day. I explained that I am no longer working, the job was terminated while I was away in the UK. I wished to be stamped in on my Thai Elite Visa...

 

The Immigration officer informed me I couldn't do this, that I couldn't choose which Visa I preferred to use. I argued that it was my choice, not his and I definitely wasn't going to accept being stamped in today and have to leave again tomorrow... that was just daft. 

 

I refused to accept his decision and asked for his supervising officer, who in turn told the junior officer that he was wrong.

 

Lesson learnt: Don't kowtow... if something doesn't seem right, it usually isn't - there is nothing wrong with firmly but politely questioning things. The amount of people in positions of power who have inadequate training is incredible. 

[Thongkorn]

It's not in the Thai cychy to question the so called superior people with there neatly ironed Military style Uniform on.Mrs is now getting the hang of it after ten years, if it seems wrong she asks again , and if she knows its wrong she is more forceful,  

[wildewillie89]

On 5/5/2017 at 3:20 PM, boomerangutang said:

                         You have an account in your farang name?  If so, I'd like to know the office you're connected to, so I can refer the headman at my office to reference your office.   Something tells me you won't want to tell me the name of your office, because it may jeopardize your situation.  I wouldn't blame you.  

 

                         Thai laws, as they apply to farang, are subjective on several levels.  I was once driving a car with a farang in the passenger seat.  I made a turn, going 2 mph, where it was slightly illegal.  A cop pulled the car over.  My friend shuffled quickly through his wallet and pulled out a dog-eared piece of paper with some Thai writing on it, about the size of a biz card.  He waved it in the officer's face.  The officer squinted as he read the one line of script, then handed the card back and waved us on with a grin.

 

                            It turns out the card had some reference to a member of the Royal family.  I don't know what it said or who issued it, but it was like a 'get out of jail free' card.   If a couple of scruffy farang can successfully use a card like that, imagine what privileges rich VIP's can get.  Heck, if they're rich enough, they can get their cop-killing kids off the hook with no legal repercussions.

No shock there, as it is incredibly easy to get out of police stops in Thailand (whether caught speeding, illegal turns, red lights, roadblocks etc). If i am travelling with my wife all she has to do is open her wallet (where her government official card is strategically placed and that's the end of the matter). Any government official can get off police stops usually (as all police are government officials also), they'll also let farang off who are teachers most times as it is a respected job in society also. 

Although in many cities now you cannot 'name drop' high ranking police connections as the police are onto many Thai talking shit and not actually knowing the police member. You must actually get the traffic cop to speak to your connections on the phone. That has saved us from countless of fines. Also all our cars have military caps or stickers on the dash (as the father in law was army), so at roadblocks it is always a stop when they see me driving (as to them i am a farang), walk up to the car and a 'you can go now' instantly after seeing the dash. The other day i went through a red light and did an illegal u-turn to get a park in front of the hospital to get a good park. all i had to do was explain why i was going there and he said, 'be careful next time'. Out of the 100 plus times i have been stopped by police in Thai, i am still fine free. 

I would also advise the guy not to tell you lol. When i got married and we applied for my free health right (as my wife is government), her staff put my name in the system and it came up with me as having a Thai ID 13 number. I do not have a Thai ID card, just have a number in the system. So instead of having to fork out money  during hospital stays and then get it refunded later, it is free from the beginning. So far, as far as I know i am the only person in my city and Khon Kaen Hospital (major hospital) that has that according to their systems as they had to call up and ask if i was allowed it. My wife's government friend is currently trying to use us to get her husband on the system, as like other farang, he has to  pay first before she can get it refunded. So we are worried it will stuff us up lol. But we have been told once it is in the system it cannot be changed. 

[boomerangutang]

                      As the post above indicates, Thai officialdom is highly subjective when meting out penalties/fines.  That's the sign of a tin pot country.  I'd like to think Thailand is easing toward egalitarian, but it's not.  It's only a bit ahead of N.Korea in the fairness of its justice system.

 

                Like with paying taxes, uneven/subjective meting out of justice/rules hurts some segments of society while continuing to coddle other segments.    With taxes:  the very poor and the very rich don't pay, so that leaves the middle income people to carry the full burden.  In the US, less than half the citizens pay any taxes, and that includes the richest people, like Trump.

 

                             Here's a true little story told to me by my Thai neighbors.  They're poor and they hail from Laos.  They were returning from their annual pilgrimage to their home village in Laos.   Their children have Thai ID cards and were born/went to school in Thailand. But the parents never went through the process.  

 

                            So two sets of parents are waiting for a bus at a Thai border town, - to return to Chiang Rai.  Two uniformed fake cops confront them, and demand Bt.5,000 for each adult in the group.  The parents protest, but to no avail.  They suspected the uniformed men didn't have proper uniforms.  They tried to get the attention of a nearby official to assist in the stand-off, but the official slinked away.  When it was clear the parents didn't have Bt.5,000/person, the gruff men asked how much cash they had altogether.  The victims forked over their entire savings of about Bt.6,300.  

 

                      For every privileged person (farang and Thai VIP) in Thailand who can easily skirt around rules, there are dozens who get unfairly victimized. 

 

 

[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

                      As the post above indicates, Thai officialdom is highly subjective when meting out penalties/fines.  That's the sign of a tin pot country.  I'd like to think Thailand is easing toward egalitarian, but it's not.  It's only a bit ahead of N.Korea in the fairness of its justice system.

 

                Like with paying taxes, uneven/subjective meting out of justice/rules hurts some segments of society while continuing to coddle other segments.    With taxes:  the very poor and the very rich don't pay, so that leaves the middle income people to carry the full burden.  In the US, less than half the citizens pay any taxes, and that includes the richest people, like Trump.

 

                             Here's a true little story told to me by my Thai neighbors.  They're poor and they hail from Laos.  They were returning from their annual pilgrimage to their home village in Laos.   Their children have Thai ID cards and were born/went to school in Thailand. But the parents never went through the process.  

 

                            So two sets of parents are waiting for a bus at a Thai border town, - to return to Chiang Rai.  Two uniformed fake cops confront them, and demand Bt.5,000 for each adult in the group.  The parents protest, but to no avail.  They suspected the uniformed men didn't have proper uniforms.  They tried to get the attention of a nearby official to assist in the stand-off, but the official slinked away.  When it was clear the parents didn't have Bt.5,000/person, the gruff men asked how much cash they had altogether.  The victims forked over their entire savings of about Bt.6,300.  

 

                      For every privileged person (farang and Thai VIP) in Thailand who can easily skirt around rules, there are dozens who get unfairly victimized. 

 

 

We also must remember this is the case in many countries. In a Western country if a policeman stops an off duty policeman, most of the time they will let them go (once they show identification). In Thailand it is a little different as many public servants are considered government 'officials' or 'officers' and thus have a rank of some kind that people must listen to in times of war (my wife for example had to do training with the army, even though her job has no connection with the army) . So in theory it would be like giving another policeman the fine in the Western country (chances are it wouldn't happen. May happen in some cases, like in some cases in Thai the odd policeman will fine an official). 

 

But yes, unfortunately, many are unfairly victimised, but it is  a third world country so no surprises there. 

[silverhawk_usa]

I don't know why the poster above has been stopped "hundreds of times", but I have had only a couple instances (in 14 years) where I used my U.S. retired police ID card.  When having to go to the police station to pay a parking  fine, I explained how in the U.S. we usually didn't fine other police.  The one Thai officer who spoke rather fluent English simply stated "Yes, but this IS THAILAND".  I did get a discount at least.  

Once stopped at a check point I found my road tax was expired.  The officer spoke little English.  I tried the ID card and he was quite observant.  He questioned why in the photo I wasn't in uniform (I was a detective). He turned the card over and saw on the back where the card was signed over the words "Chief of Police".  Of course by my Chief authorizing the card.  The Thai officer said "Oh you're Chief of Police"? I thought Ok, go with it, and I said yes.  Impressed, he showed his partners, gave me a salute and sent me on my way.  It doesn't hurt to try.  :)

[wildewillie89]

7 minutes ago, silverhawk_usa said:

I don't know why the poster above has been stopped "hundreds of times", but I have had only a couple instances (in 14 years) where I used my U.S. retired police ID card.  When having to go to the police station to pay a parking  fine, I explained how in the U.S. we usually didn't fine other police.  The one Thai officer who spoke rather fluent English simply stated "Yes, but this IS THAILAND".  I did get a discount at least.  

Once stopped at a check point I found my road tax was expired.  The officer spoke little English.  I tried the ID card and he was quite observant.  He questioned why in the photo I wasn't in uniform (I was a detective). He turned the card over and saw on the back where the card was signed over the words "Chief of Police".  Of course by my Chief authorizing the card.  The Thai officer said "Oh you're Chief of Police"? I thought Ok, go with it, and I said yes.  Impressed, he showed his partners, gave me a salute and sent me on my way.  It doesn't hurt to try.  :)

Going from one city to the next there will be up to 4 checkpoints on many routes. And naturally as they are highways, highway patrol will do speed tests. You couldn't drive too much around the country to only be stopped a few times. 

[silverhawk_usa]

6 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Going from one city to the next there will be up to 4 checkpoints on many routes. And naturally as they are highways, highway patrol will do speed tests. You couldn't drive too much around the country to only be stopped a few times. 

I said I only used the ID card a couple times.  I have traveled S.E. Asia extensively since 2002.  Still, I was never stopped that often.  I am not doubting what you say, just not my experience.   :) 

[wildewillie89]

4 minutes ago, silverhawk_usa said:

I said I only used the ID card a couple times.  I have traveled S.E. Asia extensively since 2002.  Still, I was never stopped that often.  I am not doubting what you say, just not my experience.   :) 

I used to travel for work, but now as my wife has many conferences (I figure why not see each city whilst I'm young), and as we are paid per km of fuel you end up pretty far ahead. So seeing as we will be stopped at maybe 25% of checkpoints we encounter (possibly more depending on if we drive the pick up or not and how fast I'm driving - highway patrol stops), the math adds up pretty fast if you travel once every couple of weeks...although highway patrol are harder to get out of, even harder than camera fines.