Non oa long stay vs non oa retirement

[bangkokbanjo]

Whats the advantage of having the non oa long stay visa vs retirement. My plan is to stay in thailand 6 to 7 months every year? On the usa nyc consulate page they both require the same information

 

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[glegolo]

First of all "having a retirement" is NOT a VISA, it is an "extension of stay" based on retirement you are talking about..

 

The advantage with extension of stay is so many so many, but here is a few:

a - no medical check ups

b - price is lower only (1.900 baht)

c - they are being done here in Thailand

 

and so on...

 

Glegolo

[Samui Bodoh]

I prefer the OA Long Stay as I don't want to transfer a large amount of money to Thailand (800,000/ 25-30 thousand US) and leave it here, especially with the political uncertainty. If I was certain that I was going to stay for good (marry for example) then it might be different. But that is just me.

 

Cheers

[Phuket Man]

Getting the extension in Thailand is easier and cheaper.

A far better option in my view.

[glegolo]

But as we can see.. the "tourist-guys" of course prefers O-A,,, and us living here of course goes for the easy alternative......

 

What however can be a swing-opinion also for the "tourist-guys",,, is if they have an income enough to be availible to apply for extension of stay and consequently do not need to transfer any money to Thailand....

 

Glegolo

[SheungWan]

16 minutes ago, Phuket Man said:

Getting the extension in Thailand is easier and cheaper.

A far better option in my view.

The Non I-O is 800,000 baht cheaper.

Edited June 18, 2017 by SheungWan

[ubonjoe]

Just now, SheungWan said:

The O-A is 800,000 baht cheaper.

How can that be?

The 800k baht only has to be in the bank you don't pay 800k baht for either one.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

How can that be?

The 800k baht only has to be in the bank you don't pay 800k baht for either one.

Yes. It is in the bank. Not a payment. But one still has to take that money out of one's circulation. It becomes 'dead money'. No?

[Phuket Man]

No.

8 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Yes. It is in the bank. Not a payment. But one still has to take that money out of one's circulation. It becomes 'dead money'. No?

No. You can spend it as you wish.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Yes. It is in the bank. Not a payment. But one still has to take that money out of one's circulation. It becomes 'dead money'. No?

It is not dead money. You can do whatever you want with the money other than 3 months before you do the next extension application. It will also earn interest while in the bank.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

It is not dead money. You can do whatever you want with the money other than 3 months before you do the next extension application. It will also earn interest while in the bank.

Even if it is 3 months, one has to take it out of circulation and keep in one's mind that the money has to be there for that three months. The fact that it earns some interest is an offset but still the issue.

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, Phuket Man said:

No.

No. You can spend it as you wish.

Of course you can, but money still has to come back every year if one does spend it in the interim. Don't have to fanny around with that if one has a visa from home country. Only makes sense IMHO if not going home on an annual basis and/or access to Thai visa services in home country is problematic.

[lopburi3]

Quote

Non oa long stay vs non oa retirement

If the title is correct this is not about extensions.  The O-A visa is called "Long Stay" and one of the conditions for issue is for retirement - another is for long stays even if not retired but meeting the same financial/age requirements.  It is the same visa regardless of the reason issued and the same paperwork is required (but it is listed separately on the New York Thai Consulate web site).

 

 

[1SteveC]

2 hours ago, glegolo said:

First of all "having a retirement" is NOT a VISA, it is an "extension of stay" based on retirement you are talking about..

 

The advantage with extension of stay is so many so many, but here is a few:

a - no medical check ups

b - price is lower only (1.900 baht)

c - they are being done here in Thailand

 

and so on...

 

Glegolo

 

I thought the extension was based on being over 50 years of age, there is no requirement to be retired for the extension.

[tonray]

2 minutes ago, 1SteveC said:

 

I thought the extension was based on being over 50 years of age, there is no requirement to be retired for the extension.

Being that you cannot work in Thailand whilst on the extension...you must be retired while here.

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, 1SteveC said:

 

I thought the extension was based on being over 50 years of age, there is no requirement to be retired for the extension.

If issued for retirement the one year extension is for retirement (not for being old).  The reason for extension is listed as retirement on the TM.7 form and retirement is listed in your passport stamp.

[SheungWan]

I must confess that I have gone through the awkwardness of applying for the O-A one time only. I don't even bother with that now, just a multi-entry non-I O based on retirement. Suits me (and others I would assume) as I leave Thailand within every 3 months anyway.

[1SteveC]

3 minutes ago, tonray said:

Being that you cannot work in Thailand whilst on the extension...you must be retired while here.

 

There are numerous people in the country who do work and have a work permit on a "retirement extension", it is all down to the local officers if they will allow it.

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, 1SteveC said:

 

There are numerous people in the country who do work and have a work permit on a "retirement extension", it is all down to the local officers if they will allow it.

Actually believe the number is very low - most change reason for extension - another branch of government is involved so as usual nothing 100%.

[tonray]

7 minutes ago, 1SteveC said:

 

There are numerous people in the country who do work and have a work permit on a "retirement extension", it is all down to the local officers if they will allow it.

Exceptions rather than the rule. I believe with the extension you actually sign a document saying you understand that working is not permitted. 

[NancyL]

There are several advantages of obtain the O-A retirement visa in your home country, rather than relying on a one-year retirement extension to an O visa, obtaining it in Thailand.

 

One advantage has already been mentioned.  If you don't meet the income requirement, then you don't have to bring 800,000 baht into Thailand, but instead can keep the funds in your home country since that is sufficient proof of financial worth for applying for the O-A in your home country.

 

A couple other advantages -- if properly used, you can obtain two years of life from an O-A visa.  It's a multi-entry visa, with each entry giving you a stamp with a 1 year permission to stay.  So, just before your O-A visa expires, you exit and re-enter Thailand and you'll receive a 1 year permission to stay, expiring almost one year after your visa.  You do have to be sure to purchase a re-entry permit before you leave Thailand during this second year to keep that permission to stay alive because your visa is expired and you've lost the "multi-entry" feature.

 

If you're living in Chiang Mai, you probably know that the local immigration office is not very elder-friendly.  Retirees arrive at 5 am and even earlier to queue for the limited number of slots available each day for processing retirement extensions.  With an O-A retirement visa you can avoid this nightmare for two years.  You still have to do 90 day reports, submit TM30s and get re-entry permits during your second year at this ghastly office -- plan to spend 400 baht in transport from city center, but at least you don't have to arrive early to queue for these services.  90 day reports can be done by mail and sometimes even on-line and some people are fortunate enough to live in a condo or guesthouse that takes care of TM30 reporting for them.

[bangkoklasse]

52 minutes ago, NancyL said:

There are several advantages of obtain the O-A retirement visa in your home country, rather than relying on a one-year retirement extension to an O visa, obtaining it in Thailand.

 

One advantage has already been mentioned.  If you don't meet the income requirement, then you don't have to bring 800,000 baht into Thailand, but instead can keep the funds in your home country since that is sufficient proof of financial worth for applying for the O-A in your home country.

 

A couple other advantages -- if properly used, you can obtain two years of life from an O-A visa.  It's a multi-entry visa, with each entry giving you a stamp with a 1 year permission to stay.  So, just before your O-A visa expires, you exit and re-enter Thailand and you'll receive a 1 year permission to stay, expiring almost one year after your visa.  You do have to be sure to purchase a re-entry permit before you leave Thailand during this second year to keep that permission to stay alive because your visa is expired and you've lost the "multi-entry" feature.

 

If you're living in Chiang Mai, you probably know that the local immigration office is not very elder-friendly.  Retirees arrive at 5 am and even earlier to queue for the limited number of slots available each day for processing retirement extensions.  With an O-A retirement visa you can avoid this nightmare for two years.  You still have to do 90 day reports, submit TM30s and get re-entry permits during your second year at this ghastly office -- plan to spend 400 baht in transport from city center, but at least you don't have to arrive early to queue for these services.  90 day reports can be done by mail and sometimes even on-line and some people are fortunate enough to live in a condo or guesthouse that takes care of TM30 reporting for them.

It depends on what country you are from. I'm from Sweden and it's exactly the opposite with the money from what you write. In Sweden the Thai embassy (O-A visa) like to see more than 800k baht when you show money in a Swedish bank in SEK. And with the income method they like to see the income 18500 SEK after tax. which for a normal person paying average tax will be over 100k baht in income. And in Thailand I only have to show 65k per month

Edited June 18, 2017 by bangkoklasse

[Suradit69]

6 hours ago, bangkokbanjo said:

Whats the advantage of having the non oa long stay visa vs retirement

The non-imm O-A visa is often called a retirement visa even though it's officially called a long stay visa. It's issued by the Thai embassy or some consulates in your home country or country of legal residence.

 

The other thing you seem to be referring to is an extension of stay based on retirement and is issued by immigration in Thailand. You would first need a non-imm 0 or non-imm O-A visa entry in Thailand as well as meeting other requirements to get the extension. If you enter the country with a tourist visa or visa exempt entry, you'd have to convert to a non-imm O entry before applying for the extension.

 

You can use the visa for one year from issue to enter and exit as often as you like. If you exit and re-enter just before the visa expires, you'll get a another year's permission to stay, but since the visa will then expire, you'd need a re-entry permit to maintain the permission to stay.

 

Really depends on which method you find more convenient. If you start out using the O-A visa, you can always switch to doing the annual extensions of stay later on if that seems the better option for you.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post and the expected replies to it have been removed.

[Rodiy2k]

Sounds like the concern here is that "out of circulation" means that your money needs to temporarily be removed from whatever you have it invested in and moved to a Thai savings account. It's a legitimate concern if you're on a fixed income. We are early retirees with an MM2H visa in Malaysia that we are keeping when we move from Penang to Chiang Mai next month. In Malaysia we have to keep 150,000 ringgit to stay on the program but it earns 3% and you get unlimited entries and don't have to live tents. 

 

We will start living in Thailand with non o visas and then use extension based on retirement. The first extension from non o requires the 800K THB to be seasoned for 60 days so for us it means removing about $23K USD from the cash portion of our US assets which is currently earning about 2% and paying fees to convert it into a minimum of 800K THB. We can't use any of that amount for living purposes until the extension is approved so it means converting even more during the "hikack stage" but that's the only way we can live on retirement visas for since we live outside the USA and can't apply for long stay O-A 

 

As mentioned, with non o and subsequent retirement extensions, there's no medical or background check required and although the savings account does earn interest you'd have to determine your tolerance level for earning less interest in the Thai bank account (assuming your cash is at least in a high interest money market, CD or the market). In our case we sold our house in California and have enough US assets evenafter the 800K to live for another 10 or 12 years in Asia so for us it made practical sense. But if you only want to stay here some of the year it seems silly to apply for the long stay O-A if you're not intending a "long stay". 

 

Just my two cents 

[OJAS]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Even if it is 3 months, one has to take it out of circulation and keep in one's mind that the money has to be there for that three months. The fact that it earns some interest is an offset but still the issue.

 

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Of course you can, but money still has to come back every year if one does spend it in the interim. Don't have to fanny around with that if one has a visa from home country. Only makes sense IMHO if not going home on an annual basis and/or access to Thai visa services in home country is problematic.

No need to set aside 800,000 THB for retirement extensions in any case for those who can prove minimum monthly income equal to 65,000 THB! 

[Samui Bodoh]

6 hours ago, NancyL said:

There are several advantages of obtain the O-A retirement visa in your home country, rather than relying on a one-year retirement extension to an O visa, obtaining it in Thailand.

 

One advantage has already been mentioned.  If you don't meet the income requirement, then you don't have to bring 800,000 baht into Thailand, but instead can keep the funds in your home country since that is sufficient proof of financial worth for applying for the O-A in your home country.

 

A couple other advantages -- if properly used, you can obtain two years of life from an O-A visa.  It's a multi-entry visa, with each entry giving you a stamp with a 1 year permission to stay.  So, just before your O-A visa expires, you exit and re-enter Thailand and you'll receive a 1 year permission to stay, expiring almost one year after your visa.  You do have to be sure to purchase a re-entry permit before you leave Thailand during this second year to keep that permission to stay alive because your visa is expired and you've lost the "multi-entry" feature.

 

If you're living in Chiang Mai, you probably know that the local immigration office is not very elder-friendly.  Retirees arrive at 5 am and even earlier to queue for the limited number of slots available each day for processing retirement extensions.  With an O-A retirement visa you can avoid this nightmare for two years.  You still have to do 90 day reports, submit TM30s and get re-entry permits during your second year at this ghastly office -- plan to spend 400 baht in transport from city center, but at least you don't have to arrive early to queue for these services.  90 day reports can be done by mail and sometimes even on-line and some people are fortunate enough to live in a condo or guesthouse that takes care of TM30 reporting for them.

 

I think this is an excellent post.

 

Let me add one other point that hasn't been discussed yet; great, efficient service.

 

I have read this forum off and on for several years (thanks to all!) and I have seen hundreds (?), thousands (?), tens of thousands (?) of posts talking about the difficulties of dealing with immigration in country.

 

I am fortunate that the consulate in my home country is excellent. In order to get my OA visa, I sent one e-mail and had a comprehensive reply six hours later. When I brought my paperwork to the consulate, the staff refused payment until they checked each and every document to ensure that I had everything correct. One week later, I picked up my passport. Total time at the consulate was about 15-20 minutes. Absolutely no trouble whatsoever and a beaming smile to boot.

 

This works well for me as I return to my home country every year. At minimum, I would recommend the OA to all on their first long-term visit, and to investigate if it is convenient to use it again for subsequent long visits.

 

Cheers

 

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Samui Bodoh

[AboutThaim]

1 hour ago, Rodiy2k said:

Sounds like the concern here is that "out of circulation" means that your money needs to temporarily be removed from whatever you have it invested in and moved to a Thai savings account. It's a legitimate concern if you're on a fixed income. We are early retirees with an MM2H visa in Malaysia that we are keeping when we move from Penang to Chiang Mai next month. In Malaysia we have to keep 150,000 ringgit to stay on the program but it earns 3% and you get unlimited entries and don't have to live tents. 

 

We will start living in Thailand with non o visas and then use extension based on retirement. The first extension from non o requires the 800K THB to be seasoned for 60 days so for us it means removing about $23K USD from the cash portion of our US assets which is currently earning about 2% and paying fees to convert it into a minimum of 800K THB. We can't use any of that amount for living purposes until the extension is approved so it means converting even more during the "hikack stage" but that's the only way we can live on retirement visas for since we live outside the USA and can't apply for long stay O-A 

 

As mentioned, with non o and subsequent retirement extensions, there's no medical or background check required and although the savings account does earn interest you'd have to determine your tolerance level for earning less interest in the Thai bank account (assuming your cash is at least in a high interest money market, CD or the market). In our case we sold our house in California and have enough US assets evenafter the 800K to live for another 10 or 12 years in Asia so for us it made practical sense. But if you only want to stay here some of the year it seems silly to apply for the long stay O-A if you're not intending a "long stay". 

 

Just my two cents 

If you use a money transfer company, I use Transferwise, they will give you the going exchange rate and it will land in your Thai bank account as baht. Their fee is reasonable IMO. Only problem can be opening an account.  I had this problem until I asked to be put through to an English speaker.  After explaining that it was a requirement of immigration I was able to open the account.  

[crazydrummerpauly]

1 hour ago, AboutThaim said:

If you use a money transfer company, I use Transferwise, they will give you the going exchange rate and it will land in your Thai bank account as baht. Their fee is reasonable IMO. Only problem can be opening an account.  I had this problem until I asked to be put through to an English speaker.  After explaining that it was a requirement of immigration I was able to open the account.  

I use them as well - seem better than moneycorp for both exchange rate and fee, so far so good...

[nanglong218]

Now I'm about to apply for long stay or retirement visa. My original non-O expired 13/5/17, extended 60 days to 17/7/17.

THB400K has now been in the bank long enough. My wife of 10 years is Thai. I just want to stay here with the minimum of fuss and bureaucratic nonsense. Police and health checks are no problem but I'll have to get all these from Australia which may take time.

 

We are building up her farm near Buriram on land left her by her father and additions over the years. I've invested a lot in Thailand.

I want to leave my main capital in Australia for safety, I want to mortgage this place for investment on the strength of her chanotes.  She won't have it because land is her security.  I can't fault that but I'm bearing all the risk.

 

Ubonjoe is probably the man with the answer.  My wife's kids, now in their 20s have control of my house in Melbourne and would probably prefer not to have me back.

 

Which is the easiest option, long term, because I'm getting my feet under the table.