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Patong - The Wake


Patong2

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47 minutes ago, Patong2 said:

Judging by the numbers of people wandering in Bangla at night & Jung Ceylon and streets around, this has to be the busiest low season in Patong for a few years.

 

The problem according to some street vendors and shop keepers, customers are looking not spending.

Observed this the other night when strategically placed and looking out over Bangla...……...people walking and looking, and looking and walking and...………...so it was busy with foot traffic, but little in the way of spenders.

 

The usual band venues of New York and Monsoon looked busy and had their fair share of the "younger set" and even a few bars in Sea Dragon had bums on seats (unlike last week) but overall spend according to the owners I know, is down.

 

Tough times.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Lashay said:

Fully expect a lot of the cheaper all year round bars to face the firing squad this low season as they will not have made enough in high season to carry them though low while the more expensive will be fine.

Or enough from the daytime trade, which at one time was profitable...………..but not now I think.

 

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Lashay said:

Heard a rumor that the Villa restaurant was taking over montes.

Well haven't seen anyone in there and now the shutters are down again?

 

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 9:53 AM, xylophone said:

Sure enough Nanai was always a favourite for the expats, many longer term, but they have diminished in numbers and long-term stayers, hence the closed shops and shutters, not to mention businesses for sale.

Some don't give up...….where once stood Nanai Sports Bar in its two rebirths, then Amigos, then Satang Eatery and Bar, now stands a burger bar hoping to catch the clientele that others missed?

 

This notwithstanding the fact that the Paris Burger restaurant at the other end of Nanai probably hasn't served one in four months and the Five Burgers restaurant, over the hill and going into Kathu, closed a few months ago, and just about every remaining restaurant in Nanai (except La Moreno) will serve a burger if asked!!

 

Then Backside Bistro, which seemed to be doing well, now advertises food and drink combos at 120 baht or thereabouts(profit margin?) to pull in punters, and where once stood Jampee restaurant (2nd location) now stands a newly opened café...………..

 

Now four guesthouses up for sale/rent, three of them for many months, so not the place it once was and worse to come by the looks of things.

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  • 4 weeks later...
5 hours ago, xylophone said:

--Putting a sign up at the soi entrance (which many bar owners asked for) because if you asked the everyday punter where Soi Freedom was, they didn't know...…..absolutely true!

 

Hee hee, exactly. I got asked the same question the last time I was there and replied “Dunno mate, I’ve only been coming here for 18 years. Go and ask one of those old codgers nailed to the bar stools over there…”?

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6 hours ago, xylophone said:

--Putting a sign up at the soi entrance (which many bar owners asked for) because if you asked the everyday punter where Soi Freedom was, they didn't know...…..absolutely true!

Lots of everyday punters still call it soi eric, maybe thats were the problem lies. 

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Yesterday talking with a long time Tiger bar owner.  Bar burned out in first Tiger complex fire. Leased a number of bars in Tiger 2. Very fed up with poor support from Tiger management so he let his leases go on expiry for each bar as management not want to reduce big key money each 3 years. Only has one bar left in Tiger and moves out when that lease expires. Tells me he has relocated his bars  in Soi Crocodile. I had thought Crocodile had disappeared years ago. I have not been down Bangla at night these last 15 years.  He tells me his business is way way down even for low season. 

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3 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Tells me he has relocated his bars  in Soi Crocodile. I had thought Crocodile had disappeared years ago.

I think the "new" soi which is going to house Bar Funk bars is it now, as it is where Crocodile used to be.

 

The shells of two bars are now in progress and some other structures are being put in place. Also a club/thingy at the end called Galaxy I think.

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On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:17 PM, Lashay said:

But same is true for all bars in both Tigers, regularly see times at night when even bars at front of both with less than half dozen customers, something unheard of before this year

As has been said, this experience in both Tigers is replicated throughout many of the other bars, and certainly those in the likes of Soi Freedom, not to mention many in Soi Sea Dragon.................so what of the rumour that one recently opened new and fairly largish bar in Bangla is paying 1 million baht a month in rent (and I think that includes key money)?

 

I'm having trouble getting my head round that, so perhaps other posters could throw some light on what the turnover would have to be on a daily basis (or monthly) to cover that large outgoing PLUS staff, utilities, and other overheads, not to mention the need to put some money away in the bank for future possible "rainy days".

 

Seems unbelievable to me.

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4 hours ago, xylophone said:

As has been said, this experience in both Tigers is replicated throughout many of the other bars, and certainly those in the likes of Soi Freedom, not to mention many in Soi Sea Dragon.................so what of the rumour that one recently opened new and fairly largish bar in Bangla is paying 1 million baht a month in rent (and I think that includes key money)?

 

 

Don't think they are paying that much, was one of few places to hit 'open market' (always sign it is overpriced even for Bangla) and 1M was for both buildings (they took only one). That 1M calculation was key money and rent together, bulk as key money.

 

 

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12 hours ago, xylophone said:

As has been said, this experience in both Tigers is replicated throughout many of the other bars, and certainly those in the likes of Soi Freedom, not to mention many in Soi Sea Dragon.................so what of the rumour that one recently opened new and fairly largish bar in Bangla is paying 1 million baht a month in rent (and I think that includes key money)?

 

I'm having trouble getting my head round that, so perhaps other posters could throw some light on what the turnover would have to be on a daily basis (or monthly) to cover that large outgoing PLUS staff, utilities, and other overheads, not to mention the need to put some money away in the bank for future possible "rainy days".

 

Seems unbelievable to me.

Just some simple, off the top of my head arithmetic - assuming a monthly rent/key money payment of 500K and a 100 baht markup on a bottle of beer, the bar would have to...

  -  Sell 170 bottles per day to break even on rent/key money.

  -  Sell 5 or 6 bottles per day, per employee to cover staff salaries.

 -   Sell only about 3 bottles per day to cover utilities.

 -   Sell an unknown number of bottles per day to cover mandatory "contributions" to local officials.

 

Let's assume the bar has 5 staff working at any given time - that would indicate a need to sell 30 bottles per day to cover staff costs. So then, the bar would have to sell somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 bottles of beer per day just to break even. Assuming that the average punter consumes 3 bottles in one sitting (many only having 1, and others many more but I'll assume an overall average of 3) - this implies that the bar needs to have nearly 70 unique customers each day just to break even.

 

Possibly do-able in larger venues like NY Live and Monsoon - but unlikely to be viable in anyplace smaller and without a live band. It seems that the bar owner is carrying all of the financial risk and operational responsibility, while the landlord is taking all the profits.

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7 hours ago, DrDave said:

It seems that the bar owner is carrying all of the financial risk and operational responsibility, while the landlord is taking all the profits.

Tell me something new!!!!

 

3 hours ago, Lashay said:

In short double everything you just estimated, at the least.

Yes this might be more like it because although Lashay stated that this new bar only took one building, from what I can see it looks like it was around two thirds of the total building??

 

If that is the case, then surely this bar will be struggling sooner rather than later?

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3 hours ago, xylophone said:

 

If that is the case, then surely this bar will be struggling sooner rather than later?

People behind it have the cash to make it to high season and already one of busiest non live music's. Come high season their size will come into play and they will rake the money in

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9 hours ago, Lashay said:

"100 baht markup on a bottle of beer, the bar would have to..."

 

Unless doing the volume of say illuzion average wholesale is 32-34 for thai beer, 40-42 for westeren. Most bars without live music retail is 80 for thai beer and 100 for westeren. That's around 50 to 60 markup up. (Why been saying for ages beer to cheap), out of that has to come at least cooling, nevermind all the rest.

 

Even ignoring the abysmal markups here good reason industry worldwide has the saying "no one ever got rich selling beer". Does not matter what your total bill is, if it is all beer actual profit is tiny for the bar.

 

"Let's assume the bar has 5 staff working at any given time -"

 

Not including girls, bar he is talking about runs at least double that, if not more (basic staff, dj's and western managnent on top). Even smallest bar on main street has total of 8 staff, two shifts of 4. This is one of largest.

 

In short double everything you just estimated, at the least.

Makes sense if only a 50-60 baht markup.

So then it's closer to 400 bottles/day to break even, maybe a little more depending upon staff and other costs.

That would imply over 130 unique customers needed per day. With really only about 4 hours per day of significant customer opportunity (9pm-1am), there's not a lot of room for many table/stool turns.

Attaining any sort of profits looks to be challenging to say the least if they're selling 80 baht beers.

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5 hours ago, DrDave said:

Makes sense if only a 50-60 baht markup.

So then it's closer to 400 bottles/day to break even, maybe a little more depending upon staff and other costs.

That would imply over 130 unique customers needed per day. With really only about 4 hours per day of significant customer opportunity (9pm-1am), there's not a lot of room for many table/stool turns.

Attaining any sort of profits looks to be challenging to say the least if they're selling 80 baht beers.

If beer was only thing sold, every bar on Bangla would be closed. Beer has worst markup of any product sold in a bar, even soft drinks have better profit.

 

For comparison, spirits, standard 25ml measures, and people normally drink them faster and no cooling costs beyond ice in the drink.

 

Sangsom and coke, average price is 100, Cost is 11, profit of 89 

 

Gordons Gin and tonic, average price is 180. Cost is 30. Profit of 150. 

 

Even higher end like Chivas, cost 38 (same as foreign beers), average price 220. Profit is 182.

 

And don't even get me started on the stupid price of corona and JD coke bottle, at 110 per bottle wholesale that shit should be boycotted by every bar in the country.

 

For comparison, if beer had same markups as say gin, 'correct' prices would be 200 for Chang, 240 for San Miguel and Corona 750!

 

Beer drinkers, here as well as other country's are heavily subsidised by spirit drinkers, without the latter vast majority of bars would not exist.

 

 

Edited by Lashay
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  • 1 month later...
10 hours ago, Lashay said:

I would guess the good summer weather most of northen hemisphere had is also having an impact on early bookings. People tend to think about winter holidays early if the summer at home was bad, if not they leave to later, if they take one at all.

Not in all cases as it’s often cheaper to book in advance due to the outrageous prices asked as the Crimbo high season arrives. I’ve often saved £3-500 by booking mid-year. I know a lass who works for TUI and they operate the only direct service LGW-PHUKET and she told me that the upgraded seats are often sold out by February. A lot of folk think about the Crimbo holiday mainly because they can’t stand Crimbo at home!

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On 9/23/2018 at 5:41 PM, xylophone said:

My local Starbucks is becoming unbearable with the noise from the Chinese hordes, plus the fact that they let their kids run around as if it’s a playground (screaming and shouting), and they have no manners at all.

 

Just two days ago I was sitting almost opposite a couple of Chinese guys and one of them decided to cough loudly, straight-ahead (spray et al) and in my direction, so I banged on the table and told him to cover his mouth when he was coughing, but not sure that it did any good as I left shortly afterwards.

So are they actually buying coffee from Starbucks? That’s a new one. At the Starbucks at central festival I could never get a seat as all the outside chairs were taken by Chinese sleeping, eating cup noodles, or doing anything but drinking a coffee purchased from Starbucks and the inside ones were always full with one guy or girl with a Starbucks coffee and 3 or 4 others sitting with them with water, noodles or whatever.

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1 hour ago, AJBangkok said:

So are they actually buying coffee from Starbucks? That’s a new one. At the Starbucks at central festival I could never get a seat as all the outside chairs were taken by Chinese sleeping, eating cup noodles, or doing anything but drinking a coffee purchased from Starbucks and the inside ones were always full with one guy or girl with a Starbucks coffee and 3 or 4 others sitting with them with water, noodles or whatever.

Same experience that I've had with them and I've "trained" one of the staff to look for tables where the Chinese are seated and have not bought anything, then go over and present them with a menu.

 

That certainly stirs things up a little!!!

 

Might have to try the Coffee Club and see if they will give me a tea in a large mug as the "fairy cups" they use just cannot compare to a large mug of steaming tea (and one of their caramel tarts)!!

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On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 5:16 PM, AJBangkok said:

At the Starbucks at central festival I could never get a seat as all the outside chairs were taken by Chinese sleeping, eating cup noodles, or doing anything but drinking a coffee purchased from Starbucks

It's got to be something in the water or in their genes!!

 

Everywhere I go I see them sleeping and we both mentioned Starbucks and in another post I commented on how they were managing to find places to sleep in the new Phuket Central complex, but the latest one is interesting.........….

 

In an area inside Jungceylon there is a "Investment and Property fair", laid out with little information booths from the developers and with a small stage, in front of which would be about 40 chairs ready to receive the audience if they ever arrive.

 

I haven't seen anybody sitting in any of the chairs for the few days I have been through the place, apart from a couple of Chinese folk who decided that it would be a good place to dump their shopping bags and have a snooze!!!

 

I don't think anybody bothered to move them on as they probably thought it looked as if someone was interested in what they were offering, however the whole show proved to be about as popular as a free trip to a leper colony.

Edited by xylophone
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The reasons the Chinese tourists sleep around the shopping centres is that the tour company dumps them there for a few days out of their package deal.
They are stuck until 5pm pick up.

So they hang out all day picking at cheap food and taking a nap.

You even see this when they are departing at the airport.
They might be flying in the evening but get dumped at the airport at 9am.

This is the reality of zero baht tours.

Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, sebastion said:

The reasons the Chinese tourists sleep around the shopping centres is that the tour company dumps them there for a few days out of their package deal.
They are stuck until 5pm pick up.

So they hang out all day picking at cheap food and taking a nap.

You even see this when they are departing at the airport.
They might be flying in the evening but get dumped at the airport at 9am.

This is the reality of zero baht tours.

Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk
 

Quality tourists then!!!!!

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Quality tourists then!!!!!
That's the business.
8 hours to kill with little or no money to spend.

Tour operators love it as it costs them only a bus for the day and they get paid to bring their horde there.





Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk

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