Getting son to study english

[BEVUP]

6 minutes ago, AboutThaim said:

I tried teaching my son to read many years ago in his natural language, English.  It seemed to me he was deliberately stuffing up words and we would go over and over them without any improvement.  I found it very frustrating and in the end I had to give up trying.  We found out later he is/was dyslexic.  It may be worth having your boy tested and if he is it will explain why he is reluctant to read and you can concentrate on teaching him via other methods.

Yes that does cross my mind (as he is great in maths ), but have just checked the links (& thanks by the way - some good stuff ) so will have a go at some of them on the tv screen 

PS: Just spoke with wife & it appears he is only willing to do it for the teachers - to what extent I not know - but maybe he thinks any more is to much 

Also showed the Dyslexia to her from the dictionary - In which all seems ok ( as teacher would of told us if have a problem)

[DineshR]

When my wife and I got married, she had a nine your old who couldn't speak English or do simple math if his life depended on it. My problem is that my wife doesn't speak English at all so I end up speaking Thai all the time which doesn't help. In Jan 2015, I enrolled him at  a Kumon here in Korat. They started him with Maths first and a year later they started him with English ... in both cases, they started him at ground zero. It is now mid 2017 and he's really good at Math ... he's in grade 6 but he's doing grade 7 math now .. and his English is definitely getting there ... he's able to read and understand what he's reading... that said, you have to make sure you find a good Kumon .. not all Kumon 'S are alike ... much depends on the teacher and we looked at 3 Kumon's before settling on the one we ended up with ... and I work with him on both his Math and English homework which is given daily ... so there is a huge time commitment in my part everyday as well ... for me the bonus is that my Thai has improved significantly because I use Thai while teaching him both Math and English ... just my experience here ... hope this helps ..

[Gandtee]

Before he went to bed I read books to my son, from when he was a toddler up till he was fourteen. Although he reads very well he still tries to get me to read to him. Maybe because I play the part of the characters. I'm sure my reading to him and getting him to read to me has contributed to his very good english.

[todlad]

2 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Yes i can understand that & I think my son has learned something as i could walk around the house with him & point at variuos objects in which he will know but i would say as for putting things all together thats another story

Well now I have to look at some of the links as they may be more interesting then the one's I found 

Thanks all 

It comes down to this: if he likes you and wants to spend time with you, the language will come. You are the adult and the leader, however. With a two year old, I know I am going to say the same things over and over again and I don't mind. An eight year old is obviously different. Just talk to him. Get his interest in other ways: he might have hobbies you can help with. I used to get my nine year old step son to interpret for me: good days and bad days but it involved things like trips to the markets, shops ... even work, where some people couldn't speak English.

 

On the other hand, I knew a boy from Russia who went with his mother to the UK and after a while he refused to speak Russian, even to his grandparents over the phone. Why? He was terrified that his mother and step father would send him back there so his defence was to refuse to communicate in Russian! He needn't have worried but that's the kind of thing that children can concoct in their minds.

[todlad]

7 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

Before he went to bed I read books to my son, from when he was a toddler up till he was fourteen. Although he reads very well he still tries to get me to read to him. Maybe because I play the part of the characters. I'm sure my reading to him and getting him to read to me has contributed to his very good english.

I agree with that: I did the same with my other children and my two year old is just starting to appreciate the reading we do for her now. 

[Baerboxer]

Try going to CP Building right next to Phayathai BTS station. It's packed with tutor companies offering tuition in all sorts of subjects. 

 

One Thai friend has just started his youngest there on an English course. His older brother is studying more subjects. The place is jam packed with students and their families on Saturday and Sunday.

 

No idea about cost.  

 

Some of the parents of other pupils in my daughters class have children at Assumption but say the extra tuition is necessary.

 

As for English language - we speak English at home 80% of the time. I correct conversational errors and read to them and get them to read to me. Enid Blyton books are excellent for good English.

[Scott]

The first thing to remember is that boys learn languages more slowly than girls as a general rule.   Girls speak earlier and generally read earlier than boys.   Boys are more hands on and less cerebral with learning.  

 

I would suggest that you take it slow and easy and try to make it as practical as you can.   Put labels on things in house, such as the refrigerator, stove, door, window and have him learn a few of these each day until they are firmly planted in his mind.   If possible, print them out in a big bold font.   Have them spell them and then try to use them.   As he learns them, take the sign down -- unless you don't mind having labels all over the place!

 

If he insists on speaking Thai, don't push him too much, but make sure he understands it in English.    He will use the words when he is ready.  

 

Find a short story with simple writing and read it to him and have him read it back.   It should be very short.   You read a few sentences to him, he reads them back.   Once he loses attention, then stop.   Repeat until you have been able to get through the story.  

 

Keep it simple, keep it short and keep it easy.   Part of the key is that he should experience success.   Best of luck.  

[Ulic]

11 hours ago, GLewis said:

You need to enforce his English at home. Dont you speak to him on a daily basis about his day and what is going on in English when you are around him? With an English speaking parent in the house this should be quite easy if you are willing to invest some time.  

Father, mother, television, music, English only. Kids will get more than enough

Thai everywhere else.  Read to him every night in English. I will help him develop

a love of reading and expand his imagination.

[sirineou]

Get some english language comic books and casually leave them around , don;t tell him he has to read them, just let him look at the pictures. maybe explain to him who the super heroes are and read him a short passage.

Maybe his curiosity will get the better of him , and he would want to know more. Then read more with him.

 

[oldgent]

Bevup is the grandparents around or in his life, could they be an influence  just a though

 

[dereklev]

9 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Yes a challenge for sure (my wife speaks not to bad english) , But the sons friends mother mentioned to me once that Thais will only speak Thai to one another

This is very true. Whenever my son is with other English speaking Leuk Kreung they only speak Thai.

 

English has been the language in our house since my son was born although nowadays my wife only speaks Thai to him. Tried the TV in English but like your son he would change it Thai at every opportunity. 

 

You really need to get him into an English programme as he needs constant exposure to English.

 

I think Sarasass don't let you passed the front desk as they don't want you to see how many kids are in a class. These schools are a franchise and are run as businesses putting profit before education.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

[Damrongsak]

Hang out with him a lot and only speak English.  Do fun and stupid stuff.  Immersion and learning on-the-fly in context is the only easy way.  I had 6 weeks of Thai language training in the Peace Corps before being dumped in Loei.  I would walk around in the evenings and just try to talk to shopkeepers, and local drunks if I couldn't avoid them.  One can learn if the alternative is to remain silent.

 

Our kids in the US never learned Thai because mama just didn't use it at home for some reason.  Shame.  Guess she was learning English and distancing herself from the past.  All they learned was "eat rice", "fart" and "crap". 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

12 hours ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

Make learning English fun and do it on a daily basis. 

Is the 8 year old you have coming on the 4 month holiday?

Do you have kids?

Any learning need a fun element.

Maybe you can stop off and teach this boy English yourself instead of the sailing trip.

Sorry but you need a reality check.

 

 

.

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

I've done this myself.

School is important, so you should make sure he is being taught in English or pay the price...

Kindergarten to 5 years my boy only spoke Thai (something I could not do anything about at the time). International school after that and only ever spoke to him in English at home and English language TV (cartoons, movies etc).

Summer schools are good too.

Just confidence, once he gets a grip on it he will be happy to embrace the worlds number one language. Worked for my son, in fact he has forgotten most of his Thai now, lives and works in the UK with dual nationality.

Make an effort.

 

[soalbundy]

You don't say what your nationality is, possibly not English ? Is he your biological son,ie have you been with him since his birth ?

I have two step daughters that I have known since an early age (now young adults ) and my biological son now 9 years old. I have only ever spoken Thai with my two step daughters but I have only spoken English with my son since his birth so he is now fluent in both languages. what helped him progress in English was watching 'Minecraft' on youtube he then progressed to finding other weird kids stuff in English himself, Youtube is a great help. It was easy with my son of course because our communication only ever took place in English right from the beginning so all the basics were there for him to be able to progress alone with the computer. If your son doesn't have this background then it is somewhat more difficult.

Children don't usually like learning things in the traditional teacher/student way so it has to be a fun thing where he see's instant progress (especially for a Thai) so you have to start of in a simple way with stuff that interests him, for my son that was cars.

Starting from a very,very early age is important, when I helped my step daughters with their English home work I found that they weren't really interested in learning, they just wanted me to do the homework for them, their pronunciation is awful, it is so bad that I have often asked them to say it in Thai so that I know what word it is they are saying. If the interest isn't there you will have an uphill battle. Only speak English with him no matter what.  

[Scott]

2 hours ago, dereklev said:

<snipped>

I think Sarasass don't let you passed the front desk as they don't want you to see how many kids are in a class. These schools are a franchise and are run as businesses putting profit before education.

 

Good luck.

There is some variation in the class size, but most classes will run about 32 - 35 students per class, much less than some schools.   Most of the IEP programs have in the high 20's for the number of students.  

 

Most schools do not let people walk around the school unescorted and I would be very suspicious of any school that did so.   There are major security concerns with people being allowed to wonder around a school campus.  

[BEVUP]

11 hours ago, DineshR said:

When my wife and I got married, she had a nine your old who couldn't speak English or do simple math if his life depended on it. My problem is that my wife doesn't speak English at all so I end up speaking Thai all the time which doesn't help. In Jan 2015, I enrolled him at  a Kumon here in Korat. They started him with Maths first and a year later they started him with English ... in both cases, they started him at ground zero. It is now mid 2017 and he's really good at Math ... he's in grade 6 but he's doing grade 7 math now .. and his English is definitely getting there ... he's able to read and understand what he's reading... that said, you have to make sure you find a good Kumon .. not all Kumon 'S are alike ... much depends on the teacher and we looked at 3 Kumon's before settling on the one we ended up with ... and I work with him on both his Math and English homework which is given daily ... so there is a huge time commitment in my part everyday as well ... for me the bonus is that my Thai has improved significantly because I use Thai while teaching him both Math and English ... just my experience here ... hope this helps ..

Son goes to Kumon in Koratnaree rd (from wife) - Math on Saturday & Math/english today

[BEVUP]

3 hours ago, oldgent said:

Bevup is the grandparents around or in his life, could they be an influence  just a though

 

No one around

[BEVUP]

3 hours ago, dereklev said:

This is very true. Whenever my son is with other English speaking Leuk Kreung they only speak Thai.

 

English has been the language in our house since my son was born although nowadays my wife only speaks Thai to him. Tried the TV in English but like your son he would change it Thai at every opportunity. 

 

You really need to get him into an English programme as he needs constant exposure to English.

 

I think Sarasass don't let you passed the front desk as they don't want you to see how many kids are in a class. These schools are a franchise and are run as businesses putting profit before education.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

My thoughts also 

Wife met Thai/Chinese women at Kumon & she mentioned the only good Sarasat is in BBK the others are as above

Lad starts at 6 am (fist on mini van ) & finishes about 6pm (obviously last off )- very long day this is why I want him to go to Assumption as it is just around the corner 

Fees are the same 15,000 a term but we are paying an extra 15,000 at Sarasat for the Bilingual class

The thought is to put him in Assumption (which seems ok as his friend & the girl across the rd goes there) & get a private Tutor in a couple a days a wk ( 1 hr each day ) 

[BEVUP]

43 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

You don't say what your nationality is, possibly not English ? Is he your biological son,ie have you been with him since his birth ?

I have two step daughters that I have known since an early age (now young adults ) and my biological son now 9 years old. I have only ever spoken Thai with my two step daughters but I have only spoken English with my son since his birth so he is now fluent in both languages. what helped him progress in English was watching 'Minecraft' on youtube he then progressed to finding other weird kids stuff in English himself, Youtube is a great help. It was easy with my son of course because our communication only ever took place in English right from the beginning so all the basics were there for him to be able to progress alone with the computer. If your son doesn't have this background then it is somewhat more difficult.

Children don't usually like learning things in the traditional teacher/student way so it has to be a fun thing where he see's instant progress (especially for a Thai) so you have to start of in a simple way with stuff that interests him, for my son that was cars.

Starting from a very,very early age is important, when I helped my step daughters with their English home work I found that they weren't really interested in learning, they just wanted me to do the homework for them, their pronunciation is awful, it is so bad that I have often asked them to say it in Thai so that I know what word it is they are saying. If the interest isn't there you will have an uphill battle. Only speak English with him no matter what.  

Aussie & is my son from birth 

[Farang99]

15 hours ago, GLewis said:

You need to enforce his English at home. Dont you speak to him on a daily basis about his day and what is going on in English when you are around him? With an English speaking parent in the house this should be quite easy if you are willing to invest some time.  

My stepson had little or no English when I met him, aged 11. I proceeded to speak English with him all the time ( though I speak Thai with his mother) and he began to improve. Now (aged 30) his English is perfectly adequate and he is in a job where fluent English is important.

[soalbundy]

24 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Aussie & is my son from birth 

Then assuming you only spoke English with him from birth it should be easy, indeed if you have done this he should speak English at an advanced level already. If speaking with my step daughters in Thai and my son is there and i lapse into Thai while speaking with him he looks confused,in fact once he said to me ''Don't speak Thai to me ! I'm an English boy''   "Really ? look at your birth certificate, you're Thai''

[Cereal]

The Asian way of learning to read is to memorize words and spelling. This does not work. It would help the boy's confidence if he could read at a fairly high level for his age. To teach this he has to know sounds. If he recognizes sounds he can "sound it out" and spell words he's never seen or heard.

 

The English language has 43 sounds I think. 31 of these sounds comprise the consonants and the long & short vowels. Pump him full of confidence. I am sure he knows these sounds by now (he should) so he already knows 31/43 sounds and he probably doesn't realize it. Throw in some dipthongs: sh, ch, th, then add in prefixes and suffixes: re, un, & tion, cion,....

 

Speaking proper English is essential. Do not do the Thai thing, saying words with the ending accented and missing prepositions and proper verb tenses etc. Hearing the language spoken correctly helps acquisition through osmosis. Don't obsess about the bizarre vagaries of the rules of grammar. Get a bunch of Dr. Suess books. I know he's a little too old but they are likely appropriate for his level.

 

Use computer games a reward for doing well and trying hard. Ice cream at DQ, pizza, whatever. There should be incentives to try. As mentioned, you and your wife should speak nothing but English to him and each other.

 

In no time the boy will have a solid grip on almost all the sounds in the English language. He'll be able to sound out words he's never seen. This increases confidence.

 

I taught this method - this is how I was taught back in the 60's - to elementary grade 3 and 4 kids and they were shortly spelling words that middle schooler's couldn't spell. They may not have known what the word meant but they could spell it. Learning definitions is easier after that.

 

The added bonus is of course, as you learn sounds you must vocalize and this increases one's confidence in speaking.

 

I have a friend who has 2 kids, now 9 and 5. They are fluently bilingual in Thai and English appropriate to their ages. When they speak English they're Canadian, no accent at all. The same with Thai. It's eminently doable.

 

It has to be enjoyable from his perspective with clear goals. You have to be firm with clear achievable expectations.

 

I have taught students from beginner right through to university scholarships in the West. My methods work.

[Nurseynutcase]

Some years ago I found out that my friends son who was 8 at  the time couldn't read or write English - this was in England.

 

I took him to the local Kumon classes and did his homework with him every day - he had one day off from 'extra lessons' as we called them.  Yes it was long hard slog for 16 months but well worth it when I later learned that he won a reading competition at school and also an essay competition.

 

Would recommend Kumon classes - the structured learning approach was brilliant.  We also had fun by looking at places on the map and I used cards to spell out words or jumble them up and then get him to pick out the letters.

 

Good luck.

 

As an aside I now live here in Thailand and 2 years ago we 'rescued' a bar girl who was living in dreadful circumstances.  Her English was minimal but she is now fluent and comes up with words that we haven't taught her and she knows the meaning of them.  Who knows what she could have achieved if she hadn't had to leave school at 12 years to work on the rice farm.

[DineshR]

One other thought .... some years back, I went to a Thai school to learn how to read, write and speak Thai. Turns out, Thai is not that difficult because once you learn the rules, you can pretty much read anything (though knowing what you just read depends on the size of your vocabulary and what words you know). I also know how to read, write and speak Malay. And Malay is much easier to learn than English as well.

 

English on the other hand, compared to learning Thai is incredibly difficult because while English does have it's rules, it also has many exceptions ... all of which you have to remember ...I think this makes learning English more difficult than learning a language like Thai or Malay. For those of us who have grown up using English as out primary language, we sometimes take for granted that English should be easy but for some people that's not the case.

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, DineshR said:

One other thought .... some years back, I went to a Thai school to learn how to read, write and speak Thai. Turns out, Thai is not that difficult because once you learn the rules, you can pretty much read anything (though knowing what you just read depends on the size of your vocabulary and what words you know). I also know how to read, write and speak Malay. And Malay is much easier to learn than English as well.

 

English on the other hand, compared to learning Thai is incredibly difficult because while English does have it's rules, it also has many exceptions ... all of which you have to remember ...I think this makes learning English more difficult than learning a language like Thai or Malay. For those of us who have grown up using English as out primary language, we sometimes take for granted that English should be easy but for some people that's not the case.

 

Besides Kumon there's a similar school in many locations in Thailand;  'Smart Brain'  (HQ is in Singapore), 

 

Smart Brain focuses mainly on English and Maths. they have good materials and quite professional.  Fees are very reasonable.

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, DineshR said:

One other thought .... some years back, I went to a Thai school to learn how to read, write and speak Thai. Turns out, Thai is not that difficult because once you learn the rules, you can pretty much read anything (though knowing what you just read depends on the size of your vocabulary and what words you know). I also know how to read, write and speak Malay. And Malay is much easier to learn than English as well.

 

English on the other hand, compared to learning Thai is incredibly difficult because while English does have it's rules, it also has many exceptions ... all of which you have to remember ...I think this makes learning English more difficult than learning a language like Thai or Malay. For those of us who have grown up using English as out primary language, we sometimes take for granted that English should be easy but for some people that's not the case.

 

Agree, and all the more reason why it's better for most people to follow a structured progression. 

[soalbundy]

Just now, DineshR said:

One other thought .... some years back, I went to a Thai school to learn how to read, write and speak Thai. Turns out, Thai is not that difficult because once you learn the rules, you can pretty much read anything (though knowing what you just read depends on the size of your vocabulary and what words you know). I also know how to read, write and speak Malay. And Malay is much easier to learn than English as well.

 

English on the other hand, compared to learning Thai is incredibly difficult because while English does have it's rules, it also has many exceptions ... all of which you have to remember ...I think this makes learning English more difficult than learning a language like Thai or Malay. For those of us who have grown up using English as out primary language, we sometimes take for granted that English should be easy but for some people that's not the case.

I speak English as my native tongue, I am fluent in German and I speak and read Thai (I would say my Thai is so so ) The thing with English is that you can really destroy the syntax beyond all recognition and yet still make yourself understood, that isn't possible in German nor is it possible in Thai which is made more difficult being a tonal language. Yes, in one way to speak English like Richard Burton or Churchill is, for a non native speaker,someone from Birmingham for instance, difficult but it is easy to make yourself understood.

[sandemara]

I've only read the first 15 responses and couldn't bear going further..

With a few exceptions, the ignorant (but, I concede, probably well-meaning) responses horrified me.

I've run English language clinics for local Thai primary school students, lectured for five years in an English Degree course at a prominent Thai university for 5 years and have also taught English writing and conversation at all levels in a Thai government high school. I developed a 25-year career as a cross-cultural communications consultant to various governments (state and federal) political parties, and service agencies for migrant groups around the South Pacific and in Australia.

Before you do any further damage to your son's psyche and destroy any hope you might hold of seeing this boy of yours attain fluency in English or any other language I suggest you dump and forget any of the strategies you've been playing with so far.  Reflect a little and try to be very clear in your own head about what you actually want to achieve for your son. I also recommend you try to rid yourself of the colonial attitudes you seem to value and decide that your son's happiness and wellbeing  ought to be your primary aim, and develop a plan that reflects that over-riding principle. 

Have you forgotten your own childhood so completely? I'm sorry for my bluntness, but quite possibly you experienced  growing-up in a family environment in which child abuse was standard practice. Please don't perpetuate that sort of misery with your own child.

What you so blithely describe as the "Thai trance" is actually a classic picture of a terrified, defenceless little boy who sees no other way to escape a miserable, loveless situation. He's too scared to run away (and I garantee he's dreamed about that already), Does he have disturbed  sleep, nightmares, maybe bed-wetting? He's too little to be able to defend himself at present - you might be already moulding a time-bomb that will shock you in later years..

What alternative does he have to escape except to switch off or shut down when he's far too young to handle a very scary reality? In his eyes, every time his parents drift into conversation about the English language  they turn into maniacs threatening or inflicting physical harm or punishment he doesn't understand. The fact that you're probably repeating the dreadful mantra that such terror is "for his own good". To justify such terror in a child's understanding is cruelty; destroying the sense of security.any young child needs and deserves for their psychological wellbeing.

You aren't the first. nor will you be that last, well-intentioned parents to confuse an innocent child with such illogical behaviour. But you've got to be smarter if you want a happy, well-adjusted child who'll grow up confident in dealing with challenges or opportunities.

The more you threaten and denigrate, the more convinced this little boy will be that English language is somehow connected with danger and unhappiness - hardly a positive learning environment..

Did you learn anything useful whenever your parents turned into crazy monsters, other than realising distance meant safety" Learning is meant to be a gift, not a punishment or  justification for violence and intimidation.  

As a first step, lighten up. Stop denigrating the local culture, it's half your son's life and heritage now. Think about what your attitudes infer about your boy's perceptions of his own worth as a human being.

Seek advice from a professional - a thoroughly qualified ESL teacher or a psychologist. A one-hour session/discussion is relatively cheap in Bangkok, and far more valuable than simply hiring  someoine to take over what should really be a family first priority responsibility if you want to achieve worthwhile results for the boy.

Ask for guidance or advice on language immersion principles and strategies . Parents can be powerful, positive tools for change in a child's life.  You could expect  a lot of satisfaction from your involvement as well providing a much more constructive environment for your child's development.

Support and resources abound on the internet - Google ESL and start swimming.  The more you know and understand, the more in-control  you'll feel.  Everyone around you should also benefit from a positive. harmonious environment.

Programs like Sesame street are available. I like it, even tho research shows it can promote fluency in only about a third of young viewers, but it does no harm and encourages and reassures children's sense of self. I would also encourage access to comics, kids 'magazines, cartoons, age=appropriate movies etc

Reading fairytales and stories (children's classics) and illustrated children's books (The Cat in the Hat series really suck youngsters in).provide non-threatening, enjoyable (even addictive) learning experiences.

Bribery, or food rewards, for instance might only produce a fat, gluttonous child who only knows enough to order at a Macdonald's.

Another powerful tool is instituting a reading stories at bed-time schedule - this is something you should undertake yourself. Don't leave it up to anyone else.

That in itself will give your child very important messages about, language, reading and learning.  You might even end up finding yourself in great discussions with.your child that you never dreamed you could enjoy so much.

These adventures might even progress to games like charades or simple word games,or even draughts, chess scrabble etc the whole family could enjoy.  If you can show your son you believe in such commitment to learning simply for the pleasure it provides, you've given your son a great and lasting gift. Good luck.

[oldcarguy]

cartoons , comics ,  kids songs........make it FUN ,

 

kids need to learn how to sound out the words ,  then they can learn words they need to use and not just words the school wants to teach.....

 

I need to see the word , hear the word and say the word a couple times before I even have a chance of remembering it ,

 

but if its not fun they are not going to spend the time it takes to learn it , no matter how much better your plan is !

 

I wish sleep learning worked ,  I would be pretty good at it , but Thais would Master sleep learning :)