Carnage on the Thai roads "even worse than you think" reports Thai media.

[hobz]

10 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Sounds like you need to adapt to driving in Thailand.

You mean drive super defensively and learn to not get upset or learn to get blind?

Or do you mean drive like the rest of the idiots and contribute to the madness?

[mommysboy]

23 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Not only do they do that, they have a detailed explanation of how they collect, compile and collate their statistics.

 

To draw any conclusion from a single set (e.g. deaths per 100k) is misleading; there are many other ways of getting an impression of road safety.

Even looking at deaths per 100k people forget that Thailand is unusual in that it has 80% of deaths from motorcyclists....in other countries, especially in the west, motorcycle ownership/traffic is so low as to have a very small impact. If you take out the m/c death toll, Thailand's road deaths are comparable to the USA - which BTW has a pretty poor road safety record itself.

 

If you look at things like deaths per vehicle owned, mileage covered and vehicles per mile, Thailand again drops way down the league tables and gets on a par with places like the US again. I think many US expats fail to see the irony in this when they berate Thai drivers.

 

Thailand's road deaths are not simply a result of "bad driving" they are the result of a national  road safety environment that is disorganised and archaic....it costs the nation trillions of dollars in healthcare and lost incomes and far from being something that is inevitable or ignored it is something that the nation would fiscally profit from if addressed scientifically. Unfortunately with the present set up issues like road safety end up being dealt with by people who are simply not qualified to do the job issuing random and un-researched dictums in the hope that they will save face and keep their phoney-baloney positions..

 

If you really want to get a view from a different perspective, check out Thailand's emergency services - they are so utterly appalling that they alone could make a huge contribution to the death rates.

You write : 'there are many other ways of getting an impression of road safety.'

 

One easy way is to just stand by any high road, junction, or set of traffic lights.

[joeyg]

On 7/22/2017 at 4:32 PM, brewsterbudgen said:

What percentage are motorcycle deaths?

75%

[Airbagwill]

14 hours ago, mommysboy said:

You write : 'there are many other ways of getting an impression of road safety.'

 

One easy way is to just stand by any high road, junction, or set of traffic lights.

This unfortunately shows you don't understand the basics of information gathering...the difference between anecdotal and scientific evidence.

[Airbagwill]

19 hours ago, hobz said:

You mean drive super defensively and learn to not get upset or learn to get blind?

Or do you mean drive like the rest of the idiots and contribute to the madness?

You have shown your own shortcomings in your use of stereotyping and subjective posturing.

[Airbagwill]

19 hours ago, hobz said:

I wrote a post earlier with some specific things that i see on the roads almost every day. Some people replied and dismiss everything as "untutored anecdotes" etc. I guess they are right.

 

If you come from Sweden. As I do. And you come to Thailand, as I did.

If you compare traffic in both countries you will invariably and undeniably notice a GENERAL recklessness on Thai roads. A GENERAL extreme lack of consideration for safety. We can discuss specific details etc etc. But it doesn't matter. Because you can immidiately see that drivers in thailand drive way worse and way more dangerous than in sweden. And ofcourse statistics back it up.

I'm sure you do...but you are failing to analyse scientifically what you are looking at and why.

[terry Meltham]

14 hours ago, joeyg said:

75%

What is the % of motor Cycles to cars ?

 

[metisdead]

Profane troll posts and replies have been removed:

 

8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.
 

 

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection posts have been removed.

 

Quote

"driving a car in the USA is nearly twice as dangerous as in Thailand"

 

Driving in the USA is not the topic here, the topic is "Carnage on the Thai roads "even worse than you think" reports Thai media."

 

7. Please do not post off-topic responses in an attempt to hijack the thread. Such posts will be deleted. 

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

This unfortunately shows you don't understand the basics of information gathering...the difference between anecdotal and scientific evidence.

If  you put pen to paper at a number locations, tabulate and compile the results, does that then become scientific?  

And what is wrong with a general impression of traffic / driver behaviour, or can't you see the forest in front of you  unless you identify each and every specific tree?  

[hobz]

7 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

I'm sure you do...but you are failing to analyse scientifically what you are looking at and why.

I saw your longer post earlier, i cant find it now but.... 

One thing you said is the most common reason behind accidents is simply failing to see another vehicle (bikes beware).

If that is true, then wouldn't it be extra important to signal BEFORE changing lanes? And to not just switch lanes suddenly. I see its very rarely done here. 9 out of 10 i would guess are not signaling before switching lanes. 

Cars specially should do this because they could miss a motorbike in the dark but at least the motorbike will most likely see the car. And if the car signals they will have a better chance to get out of the way. 

Also, the speed you drive in relation to visibility...

 

 

[mommysboy]

9 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

This unfortunately shows you don't understand the basics of information gathering...the difference between anecdotal and scientific evidence.

As we know, most deaths are motorbike related.  You would take these statistics out of the equation in order to obtain a more realistic figure.  But who is to say that if there no motorbikes, these same people would not simply be causing carnage in old second hand cars.  The main point could be that this is about poor skills, not the mode of transport.  You can't simply toy with statistics to fit your theory.

[mommysboy]

On 28/07/2017 at 1:13 AM, Airbagwill said:

Sounds like you need to adapt to driving in Thailand.

Ok, then....he should start doing the following:

 

Run/jump traffic lights, and assume a filter left on red.

Over/undertake at speed in inappropriate places, eg, dense traffic, and blind curves.

Tailgate.

Accelerate in to trouble.

Fail to stop at zebra crossings even when someone is already walking.

Drive on the wrong side of the road.

Fail to give way.

Cut corners.

Initiate a right turn in the face of oncoming traffic.

Drive drunk or under the influence of drugs.

Drive much too fast.

Assume immortality.

 

It is simple errors that cause the carnage according to this poster, yet surely those errors are bound to multiply or have greater consequence when doing any of the above.

 

[Airbagwill]

19 hours ago, mommysboy said:

As we know, most deaths are motorbike related.  You would take these statistics out of the equation in order to obtain a more realistic figure.  But who is to say that if there no motorbikes, these same people would not simply be causing carnage in old second hand cars.  The main point could be that this is about poor skills, not the mode of transport.  You can't simply toy with statistics to fit your theory.

You're joking, right?

[Airbagwill]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Ok, then....he should start doing the following:

 

Run/jump traffic lights, and assume a filter left on red.

Over/undertake at speed in inappropriate places, eg, dense traffic, and blind curves.

Tailgate.

Accelerate in to trouble.

Fail to stop at zebra crossings even when someone is already walking.

Drive on the wrong side of the road.

Fail to give way.

Cut corners.

Initiate a right turn in the face of oncoming traffic.

Drive drunk or under the influence of drugs.

Drive much too fast.

Assume immortality.

 

It is simple errors that cause the carnage according to this poster, yet surely those errors are bound to multiply or have greater consequence when doing any of the above.

 

You clearly don't understand the data.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

You're joking, right?

No of course not. 

In the west many accidents are caused by young people driving too fast.

By simply taking the motor cyclists out of the equation, one doesn't do away with the problem with young motorists.  And what sort of accounting is that anyway?

And as I say, even if most accidents are ultimately caused by simple errors of judgement, carnage is not inevitable if both are traveling at a reasonable speed.

Of course we have rules that prevent accidents.  If, as you say, they do not serve such a purpose I don't suppose we would have them.

Your stance is weird, and I don't buy you claiming superior knowledge one iota- not a jot.

If ever a case there is someone attempting to argue black is white and white no colour at all, then this is it!

 

[joeyg]

On 7/29/2017 at 7:25 AM, terry Meltham said:

What is the % of motor Cycles to cars ?

 

Start here Google is pretty handy  https://www.google.co.th/search?q=in+thailand+what+is+the+percentage+of+motorcycles+to+cars&oq=in+thailand+what+is+the+percentage+of+motorcycles+to+cars&aqs=chrome..69i57.17683j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[brling]

On 7/29/2017 at 6:56 AM, Artisi said:

 

And what is wrong with a general impression of traffic / driver behaviour, or can't you see the forest in front of you  unless you identify each and every specific tree?  

How can an apologist see with thick rose tints bolted on your head 24 / 7

[Airbagwill]

On 30/07/2017 at 3:08 PM, mommysboy said:

No of course not. 

In the west many accidents are caused by young people driving too fast.

By simply taking the motor cyclists out of the equation, one doesn't do away with the problem with young motorists.  And what sort of accounting is that anyway?

And as I say, even if most accidents are ultimately caused by simple errors of judgement, carnage is not inevitable if both are traveling at a reasonable speed.

Of course we have rules that prevent accidents.  If, as you say, they do not serve such a purpose I don't suppose we would have them.

Your stance is weird, and I don't buy you claiming superior knowledge one iota- not a jot.

If ever a case there is someone attempting to argue black is white and white no colour at all, then this is it!

 

Sorry we're not speaking the same language

[Thaijack2014]

Off all reasons, the most obvious is missing here (I didn't see it)...a total lack of education. No driving school is required to get (buy) your licence and many on bikes don't have a licence. How can anybody expect that anyone knows how to drive, I mean applying any of the traffic tools that also exist in Thailand. Its like my Brazilian ex-wife who expected my daughters to speak Portuguese without teaching them how. She said on a day in Brazil: so now we are here, start speaking! 

Here's the same...now you have a bike, start driving....

[Ocicat]

They all drive here like they yave amulets up the ying yang. Until they bring in law enforcement from a 1st or 2nd world country to enforce the laws, the darnage will go on unabated.

[MaxYakov]

On 7/28/2017 at 4:54 PM, joeyg said:

75%

This matches my research. Thailand has a severe and chronic case of the "motorbike disease" and a serious case of general "motor vehicle self-abuse" as well.

[Airbagwill]

"Blaming" bad driving as root of the problem shows that people don't understand unproven. If that's as far as they can think about road safety, it is a sad reflection of their own driving abilities too.