Recommended weight loss / muscle gain Supplements from pharmacy ?

[tropo]

On 11/7/2017 at 1:54 PM, Rolanddrums said:

Eezeergood ...I dont think 2 Andriol Capsules a day is going to cause any 'crash when I stop', though correct me if I'm wrong . It is a very mild dose and many things I read say they work alongside bodies natural testosterone production anyway . Either way I am continuing eating foods which are high in assisting natural production of it.  eg Celery, avocado, oily fish etc . I do take a zinc tablet a day for whats its worth , but again I love the oysters and shellfish which are naturally high in zinc  . I dont intend taking any anabolic steroids , but if there are any supplements I can take to assist me ( natural ones included) that dont fall into this category , or cause any issues if I stop taking them,..... then I am all ears .

Edited November 7, 2017 by Rolanddrums

You won't get any crash from taking 2 Andriol Testacaps per day. The reason is the dose is so small it's basically worthless and a waste of money. You may be getting a placebo effect from them... sorry if I spoil that. You'd need to take 6 or more per day in multiple doses to notice even a slight anabolic effect. Absorption is very low and they have a very short half-life, so any testosterone boost is soon gone.

 

Andriol Testacaps do exactly the same as any testosterone supplement... boost testosterone. Only they are not very good at this. If you add testosterone your boys will be told to stop producing it and eventually shrink (it's called a negative feedback loop)... but don't worry about Andriol - the boys will probably not even notice 2 caps a day. If you have low testosterone, the Andriol won't be of much benefit, so there won't be any side-effects if you stop. I stress again, this is not because it's a safer way of boosting testosterone, but because it's basically useless and doesn't do the job it is intended to do. 

 

Regarding what the other member posted about PCT. We're not talking about an anabolic steroid cycle here but TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). When you start that there is no PCT as you're never going to stop, but why would you? The side-effects of low testosterone are far worse than any negative side effects of TRT. When you think of TRT, think of menopausal women on HRT. They are replacing a hormone (estrogen) that is no longer produced in sufficient quantity by the body. They stay on it, just as men should stay on TRT once they start. The only side effect I can think of for men on TRT is testicular shrinkage as they stop producing their own testosterone... but of course, they shouldn't start on TRT unless their own levels are low and they cannot boost them naturally. Please note that TRT is about boosting testosterone to normal physiological levels for men. Most doctors would be aiming for somewhere in the middle of the normal range. Why would this produce any negative side effects other than the cosmetic one I covered earlier?

[tropo]

On 11/7/2017 at 2:47 PM, adammike said:

I have had a great body twice in my lifetime,when I was 33 and used the gym weights and cardo was on my feet all day working as a cook six pack etc started going to bars again gym stopped.Again at 43, stopped drinking and started doing yoga at home after work 6 days a week,can't remember what got me started on yoga but believe it or not I acquired the book teach Yourself yoga and it worked,started 20 minutes a day, a year later had the best body and felt great of course it all fell apart when I started to drink again.if you want a great body, become aware of what you put into it, feel as good as it's possible to feel take up yoga,ignore all the hippy dippy stuff and concentrate on the physical side and discipline it can bring that means doing for six days then a day free I guarantee you a six pack in six months.

That merry-go-round gets hard and harder as you get older. You managed at 33 and again at 43, but next time it may not be as easy. I'm pretty aware of this as I have been continuously training the body since age 15 and now I'm nearly 60. In fact, constant training over the years gives you something to measure the aging process. I can measure it by my declining performance. It's hard enough staying in shape without all the drinking and abuse. I can't imagine the effort required if I let everything go for many years and abused my health.

 

You may like the body you get from yoga, but it wouldn't do it for me. I would recommend resistance training along with some cardio.

[dontoearth]

On 11/7/2017 at 1:54 PM, Rolanddrums said:

Eezeergood ...I dont think 2 Andriol Capsules a day is going to cause any 'crash when I stop', though correct me if I'm wrong . It is a very mild dose and many things I read say they work alongside bodies natural testosterone production anyway . Either way I am continuing eating foods which are high in assisting natural production of it.  eg Celery, avocado, oily fish etc . I do take a zinc tablet a day for whats its worth , but again I love the oysters and shellfish which are naturally high in zinc  . I dont intend taking any anabolic steroids , but if there are any supplements I can take to assist me ( natural ones included) that dont fall into this category , or cause any issues if I stop taking them,..... then I am all ears .

        Have you had your testosterone measured?  I had mine measured and it was 65...on the scale of 250-1100.  I used androgel for 6 months and had a new test.  It didn't work at all.  I had not moved one number up the scale.  I found out on the androgel site run by the manufacturer that 1 in 5 men get zero benefit from the gel.  Yes.  ZERO!  So get measured and if you are low get some gel and get measured again.  If you are still low shots are the only solution.  I get the long term Nebido shot that last around 10 weeks.  I can feel it the 3-6th weeks very clearly in my body.  I eat less my exercise is better.  The weekly injections are just to cumbersome and time consuming as I can't inject myself.

[Rolanddrums]

Thanks for the input guys . I'm on 3 or 4 testocaps now per day . It must be taken with food  though or is useless. I/ve probably put on 2 or 3 kg in the last 3 months mostly muscle . It definitely has some effect , possibly more in the bedroom than on the muscles, but both is good . The Gel I found almost useless tbh .

It's a big step up the ladder to start injecting, I don't like the idea (I'm sure I'm not alone here) ,and nor do I like the idea of shrinking tackle ( Still all good at the mo) . Can I be so bold to ask with injecting do you think sex drive increased/decreased/the same . I also like to unload into the Mrs 2 or 3 times every day . I dont really want to lose that ..its part of my exercise routine to .

Good point about ' why would you ever want to stop TRT ? ' ... I have to say I don't intend stopping but only reasons I can see are if one runs out of money or pharmacy run out of Andriol ....but again both these ok (thankfully) at the mo.

[dontoearth]

35 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Thanks for the input guys . I'm on 3 or 4 testocaps now per day . It must be taken with food  though or is useless. I/ve probably put on 2 or 3 kg in the last 3 months mostly muscle . It definitely has some effect , possibly more in the bedroom than on the muscles, but both is good . The Gel I found almost useless tbh .

It's a big step up the ladder to start injecting, I don't like the idea (I'm sure I'm not alone here) ,and nor do I like the idea of shrinking tackle ( Still all good at the mo) . Can I be so bold to ask with injecting do you think sex drive increased/decreased/the same . I also like to unload into the Mrs 2 or 3 times every day . I dont really want to lose that ..its part of my exercise routine to .

Good point about ' why would you ever want to stop TRT ? ' ... I have to say I don't intend stopping but only reasons I can see are if one runs out of money or pharmacy run out of Andriol ....but again both these ok (thankfully) at the mo.

   Do you get any blood work measurements to determine if you are getting any 'bang for your buck".   I haven't seen andriol tabs in a long time.  Can you tell me where u found them?  The reason not to stay on the caps is that your liver is detoxing the tablets.  All oral medications are hard on the liver including such easy to get over the counter remedies with things such as Tylenol.   Injection bypasses the liver and is easier on the system.  How much change in the 'tackle' for the long term effects depends a lot on how high the testosterone is pushed by artificial means and what your normal level is in the beginning and would be after ceasing a cycle.  And your age!  Most people cycle off and use some HCG for a few weeks which is injected with a small diabetic needle.  I think there are pill versions of that too.  These cycle off periods allow your normal production to pick back up.  How old are you?

     I take Nebido 1000 mcg shot every 10 weeks.  I have it done at a clinic.  I had measurements before my test was so low it was not on the scale.  My test was 65ng.  The scale runs 250-1100 ng.   After Nebido I was at 730 a respectable score and felt much better and got much better weight loss and muscle building capability.  And felt frisky if you were wondering.  I combine it with HCG therapy from time to time.  I wouldn't mind doubling my dosage but the doctor I use has a protocol and that is his protocol.  Can't get it at all in the USA so I am thankful for what I get here.

       I had the caps years ago and don't think they had any effect on me.  I also used the gel and got nothing.  The 65ng score was after 4 months of daily use of androgel.  The product website does say it is only effective in 80% of men.  20% get NOTHING no change.  I don't know about the testo caps.  Never looked at their site.  Can you give me the full name and some details?

[poanoi]

yer sperm production becomes a joke typically, but anavar/oxandrolone does not mess up the balls,
if anything, it boost function. it is a bit pricey tho

also be aware that most stuff requires another set of pills to counter fermentation of testosterone into estrogen,
i had the same estrogen levels as a woman right before she menstrate, so, for me, i'll just stick to my oxandrolone from now on

[dontoearth]

6 minutes ago, poanoi said:

yer sperm production becomes a joke typically, but anavar/oxandrolone does not mess up the balls,
if anything, it boost function. it is a bit pricey tho

    and anavar is supposed to be easier on the liver.

[Rolanddrums]

So whilst Testosterone is in the body from injections sex drive goes up ( Frisky)  but during 'off cycle' you get a big dip I guess? Also without the anti -estrogen I could turn into a girl , hence I'm put off a little by this as well.  With the injections what's the most popular alternatives.?..Oxandrolone , Anovar and Nebido.  Also what is HCG?

Current Andriol Testocaps are not the same as AT's of old . Apparently no damage effect on liver and dont go off/out of date or so I've read. I understand that the liver reduces the efficiency of AT's though in a way that injection wouldn't. My age 57, but the Mrs thinks I'm less. Have to knock off 10 to 15 years.... farrang policy haha. Even more so as she's just 22 . I think what I want is something that works alongside my bodies natural Test production... not at a level that wipes it out causing :-possible life long dependance/on-off cycling/estrogen increase requiring additional medication/shrinking balls/reduced sperm production. I appreciate a lot depends on my natural Test level . I havn't done any blood tests yet ( Yes I know I should). If I ever plan to inject I will for sure though...thanks again

[poanoi]

oxandrolone/anavar is pills, another thing i like about them,

i'm not getting used to take it in my arse, never, not ever,

it reeks homosexual from far away

 

oh ! and you are right about getting a blood test before you do anything at all, you will want to know where you stand so you can compare

[dontoearth]

26 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

So whilst Testosterone is in the body from injections sex drive goes up ( Frisky)  but during 'off cycle' you get a big dip I guess? Also without the anti -estrogen I could turn into a girl , hence I'm put off a little by this as well.  With the injections what's the most popular alternatives.?..Oxandrolone , Anovar and Nebido.  Also what is HCG?

Current Andriol Testocaps are not the same as AT's of old . Apparently no damage effect on liver and dont go off/out of date or so I've read. I understand that the liver reduces the efficiency of AT's though in a way that injection wouldn't. My age 57, but the Mrs thinks I'm less. Have to knock off 10 to 15 years.... farrang policy haha. Even more so as she's just 22 . I think what I want is something that works alongside my bodies natural Test production... not at a level that wipes it out causing :-possible life long dependance/on-off cycling/estrogen increase requiring additional medication/shrinking balls/reduced sperm production. I appreciate a lot depends on my natural Test level . I havn't done any blood tests yet ( Yes I know I should). If I ever plan to inject I will for sure though...thanks again

   Without any blood test you have no idea if you are elevating your liver enzymes or getting any effect out of the testocaps.  Further you have no idea if you are increasing your estrogen levels. You certainly could be doing so when you add testosterone to your body without any medical test.  I have heard these test cost almost nothing at small neighborhood clinics.  It should be a simple one vial blood draw most likely and a few 100 baht.

     And without some measurements of your body like a good bf scale you have no idea if you are really gaining any muscle mass.  

      I salute your effort in wanting to feel more frisky.  Don't we all?  I am impressed you are doing something about it!  More men in this age group would be so much better off if they did the supplements and exercise rather than bitching about it and sleeping with beer in the recliner in front of the TV.  However, you should exercise a little caution and use some basic knowledge that is available to you for very little money and effort.  You are putting in the effort just go it a it further. 

       I had no estrogen increase on Nebido but my testosterone never reached a problem level.  I suspect body builders often build 10's of times the amount of testosterone any doctor would be willing to administer so that probably accounts for testes shrinking and high estrogen.  Most of them don't monitor anything but mirror shots.  I did see a youtube of the autopsy results of one bodybuilder that did himself in from steriods.  His testosterone level was 54 times the top of the human scale.  The last few years of poses he looked like a Ken doll in a certain area of his body if you get my drift!  I can't imagine what is going on in their brains?

        Hey I finally look good enough to get anybody in bed I have ever wanted and all i have is a little pinky that doesn't work for anything??????????????  Strange trade off.

[Rolanddrums]

20 minutes ago, poanoi said:

oxandrolone/anavar is pills, another thing i like about them,

i'm not getting used to take it in my arse, never, not ever,

it reeks homosexual from far away

 

oh ! and you are right about getting a blood test before you do anything at all, you will want to know where you stand so you can compare

Oh pills ..I thought Testocaps was the only one that doesnt wreck your liver , maybe not . Just what I've read.

  Not sure what using pills in your arse has to do with homosexuality . Don't need to know tbh. 

[dontoearth]

21 minutes ago, poanoi said:

oxandrolone/anavar is pills, another thing i like about them,

i'm not getting used to take it in my arse, never, not ever

     Nebido shots hurt like hell.  The product info on the web even admits it!  The 4" needle in your butt cheek takes about 2 and a half minutes to unload.  Be prepared to shift gently into a chair for a few days.  Really helps you tighten your chin muscles to keep from screaming.  I would  not do it if I didn't have a nurse available at my clinic.  I can't believe anyone could do that in their home.  I can't even do the lower dose test with the smaller needles.  I bleed and I am a chicken.

[Rolanddrums]

2 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     Nebido shots hurt like hell.  The product info on the web even admits it!  The 4" needle in your butt cheek takes about 2 and a half minutes to unload.  Be prepared to shift gently into a chair for a few days.  Really helps you tighten your chin muscles to keep from screaming.  I would  not do it if I didn't have a nurse available at my clinic.  I can't believe anyone could do that in their home.  I can't even do the lower dose test with the smaller needles.  I bleed and I am a chicken.

Thanks ..thats put me right off 4 inch needle for 2.5 minutes ..no way

[dontoearth]

Just now, Rolanddrums said:

Thanks ..thats put me right off 4 inch needle for 2.5 minutes ..no way

   Not a problem.  We should all tell the truth on here if advice person to person is too work.  BTW!  The other smaller versions of test use a 1 to 1.5 inch needle.  Still I couldn't do it to myself.

[tropo]

4 hours ago, poanoi said:

yer sperm production becomes a joke typically, but anavar/oxandrolone does not mess up the balls,
if anything, it boost function. it is a bit pricey tho

also be aware that most stuff requires another set of pills to counter fermentation of testosterone into estrogen,
i had the same estrogen levels as a woman right before she menstrate, so, for me, i'll just stick to my oxandrolone from now on

Please don't confuse a discussion about TRT with talk about anabolic steroids mainly used by bodybuilders. Anavar will definitely help a person build muscle, but it won't increase low testosterone levels.

 

Oxandrolone does cause testicular atrophy as it lowers sperm count and suppresses testosterone production.

 

As it is not very effective at low doses, there is a risk of liver damage at higher doses.

 

Plus:

 

Acne, hypertension, increase in LDL cholesterol, depression and more...

 

It's best to stay away from this drug.

 

 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, Rolanddrums said:

So whilst Testosterone is in the body from injections sex drive goes up ( Frisky)  but during 'off cycle' you get a big dip I guess? Also without the anti -estrogen I could turn into a girl , hence I'm put off a little by this as well.  With the injections what's the most popular alternatives.?..Oxandrolone , Anovar and Nebido.  Also what is HCG?

Current Andriol Testocaps are not the same as AT's of old . Apparently no damage effect on liver and dont go off/out of date or so I've read. I understand that the liver reduces the efficiency of AT's though in a way that injection wouldn't. My age 57, but the Mrs thinks I'm less. Have to knock off 10 to 15 years.... farrang policy haha. Even more so as she's just 22 . I think what I want is something that works alongside my bodies natural Test production... not at a level that wipes it out causing :-possible life long dependance/on-off cycling/estrogen increase requiring additional medication/shrinking balls/reduced sperm production. I appreciate a lot depends on my natural Test level . I havn't done any blood tests yet ( Yes I know I should). If I ever plan to inject I will for sure though...thanks again

You're 57 and worrying about lifelong dependance/on-off cycling/estrogen? At your age, it isn't going to improve, so what has cycling got to do with it? High estrogen levels are usually a result of getting too much testosterone, but older men don't even need testosterone supplements to have high estrogen. Ever heard of man-boobs and man-bras for elderly men? TRT is not about getting ridiculous doses of testosterone, but lifting levels from low to middle-normal levels. That's as far as any doctor would push it. Aromatisation of EXCESS testosterone to estradiol is not a problem if the levels are kept in the normal range. 

 

The truth is you shouldn't be taking ANY testosterone supplements unless you KNOW your own level is low. Only bodybuilders and athletes take testosterone supplements when they are still normal. Only athletes cycle on and off, in an attempt to maintain their own production in between cycles. All others either resign to TRT for life or struggle on without it. You're only playing with things you know nothing about. You haven't even had a test yet.

 

Andriol Testocaps will have an effect on your own production. The problem is they have a very short half-life, so you'll end up with spikes and troughs all day long. The bioavailability is only about 7% (7% of 40mg is only 2.8 mg of available testosterone). You take 4 a day you're getting about 10mg of testosterone. As such the quantity of testosterone you're getting is so low that any downgrading of your own production will be minimal. The absorption is so low they are virtually worthless and I wouldn't be surprised if the benefits you claim are from a placebo effect. I did use them myself for quite a while but never noticed any benefit.

[HidyHo]

11 minutes ago, tropo said:

The truth is you shouldn't be taking ANY testosterone supplements unless you KNOW your own level is low.

I don't think OP is this rational idea.  It's been close to 6 months since this thread started and he still doesn't know what his level is.

[Rolanddrums]

Your right I don't measure it . But I can see some improvements.  I have some muscle increase , quite big libido increase, feel more positive . None of these are placebo . I would think if your body is used to AS's or injecting Test in larger doses then a few Andriol tablets is going to feel like zero effect in comparison.

ps Thanks for your knowledgeable explanation  of these drugs Tropo . I think I only want legal Test ( No AS's). I have decided to stay well away from those. I am not 'playing with things I know nothing about' btw . I am reading more than most and making changes gently and slowly . The only thing is I havnt done a blood test ,... I am monitoring my own results both as above ( All good) and weight . As I say if I ever decide to inject I would get a blood test . 

[Rolanddrums]

BLOOD TESTS . I did have tests around 3-4 years ago. I had very high blood pressure and was also receiving medication to reduce it . I did have a Test level check at that point ..all was within correct range  but I do not know the exact readings . Anyway with various ( some forced) changes in my life I decided to stop all the medication ( Caused real balance issues) , lose weight , eat good etc. Blood pressure much better now. I sware if I had continued taking various blood pressure lowering tabs ( Various types ..forget the name) I would be a gonna by now,

If I did have a Test level check done now would it change my approach ? Probably not . If found to be very low I might increase from 3-4 Andriol Capsules  to 4-5 but that's it ...I still wouldn't start injecting. If found to be 'normal' I would still stay at 3-4 Caps per day.  Found to be high? I would still take 3-4 caps a day as I like the results. So that's partly why I havn't bothered. 

[dontoearth]

3 hours ago, Rolanddrums said:

BLOOD TESTS . I did have tests around 3-4 years ago. I had very high blood pressure and was also receiving medication to reduce it . I did have a Test level check at that point ..all was within correct range  but I do not know the exact readings . Anyway with various ( some forced) changes in my life I decided to stop all the medication ( Caused real balance issues) , lose weight , eat good etc. Blood pressure much better now. I sware if I had continued taking various blood pressure lowering tabs ( Various types ..forget the name) I would be a gonna by now,

If I did have a Test level check done now would it change my approach ? Probably not . If found to be very low I might increase from 3-4 Andriol Capsules  to 4-5 but that's it ...I still wouldn't start injecting. If found to be 'normal' I would still stay at 3-4 Caps per day.  Found to be high? I would still take 3-4 caps a day as I like the results. So that's partly why I havn't bothered. 

    I do hope you monitor your blood pressure daily if you are off medications.  I am working through getting off all blood pressure meds.  The side effects for me are not tolerable.  Simple home devices are in every little pharmacy today for not much money.  If you are doing all this improvement you need more than just I feel good and I think I am getting more muscular as your way of monitoring your health.  Weight changes so much and can be fat or muscle so not much of a way to tell without a very sophisticated measurement.  Even the doctors office does not use a good scale with analysis.

     It sounds like you feel good.  However, that is not much of an indication of anything with blood pressure, cholestrol and other body problems.  You can't feel those things.  A good mood is great but it can not tell much about what is going on inside your body.

      Best of luck to you!  I am around same age 61.  I am trying for the same benefits of increased libido and enjoying a good life.  However, I really do take all the precautions like seeing a doctor for TRT and sports medicine and getting the drugs directly in his office administered by a nurse with a weekly check and a every 10 weeks blood test.  I also use a sophisticated scale which measures not only body fat but muscle mass and graphically maps my composition.  I do that about every 4 weeks.

        I hope you continue your  good lifestyle and make the decision to get in to see the doc and get some test and monitor yourself with a more scientific approach.  

      

[tropo]

On 1/22/2018 at 3:15 AM, Rolanddrums said:

Your right I don't measure it . But I can see some improvements.  I have some muscle increase , quite big libido increase, feel more positive . None of these are placebo . I would think if your body is used to AS's or injecting Test in larger doses then a few Andriol tablets is going to feel like zero effect in comparison.

ps Thanks for your knowledgeable explanation  of these drugs Tropo . I think I only want legal Test ( No AS's). I have decided to stay well away from those. I am not 'playing with things I know nothing about' btw . I am reading more than most and making changes gently and slowly . The only thing is I havnt done a blood test ,... I am monitoring my own results both as above ( All good) and weight . As I say if I ever decide to inject I would get a blood test . 

Of course, you don't think your results are placebo, but that's exactly what placebo is... thinking you're getting benefits.

 

If your testosterone measurements were normal when you had tests 3 years ago, why do you think you need extra testosterone now? I know you say you're done a lot of reading, but going on your questions and comments, it would seem you don't understand much of what you're reading. Even my comments here are mainly lost on you,

 

I'm not trying to convince you to inject. I'm trying to suggest you shouldn't be taking drugs you don't need.

[dontoearth]

4 hours ago, tropo said:

Of course, you don't think your results are placebo, but that's exactly what placebo is... thinking you're getting benefits.

 

If your testosterone measurements were normal when you had tests 3 years ago, why do you think you need extra testosterone now? I know you say you're done a lot of reading, but going on your questions and comments, it would seem you don't understand much of what you're reading. Even my comments here are mainly lost on you,

 

I'm not trying to convince you to inject. I'm trying to suggest you shouldn't be taking drugs you don't need.

      In a medical study the placebo effect is REAL.   Say you are studying high blood pressure half the patients get your new drug and half get a placebo.  And you find out that maybe 10% of the placebo patients get the same results as the ones on your superduper new drug.  It happens all the time and no one is for sure why.  So with the placebo effect in place you can indeed get results just not often and not predictable and unexplainable.  In the OP's case since he doesn't seem to take any medical test or make any measurements there is no indication at all that he is getting any benefits other than psychological.  There is a lot to be said for feeling good.  There is much more to be said for KNOWING you are feeling good with some test.

[dontoearth]

4 hours ago, tropo said:

Of course, you don't think your results are placebo, but that's exactly what placebo is... thinking you're getting benefits.

 

If your testosterone measurements were normal when you had tests 3 years ago, why do you think you need extra testosterone now? I know you say you're done a lot of reading, but going on your questions and comments, it would seem you don't understand much of what you're reading. Even my comments here are mainly lost on you,

 

I'm not trying to convince you to inject. I'm trying to suggest you shouldn't be taking drugs you don't need.

     BTW!  My recommendation is that the OP should go to a good clinic and get some test.  I explained injection TRT but don't think this guy should do it as he won't see a doctor or get tested.  He seems to think taking these pills have no risk factor.   They are known for increasing blood pressure and cholesterol.   I only offer what TRT does for me and how I do it.  I would not do it by swallowing a bunch of pills from a local pharmacy and deciding I feel really good.

      A brief google says that they no longer manufacture andriol and I could not get it anywhere in Thailand a few years ago for a friend.  Got it quite a few years back from that.  I did see it at on an online site that probably runs out of India.  I am not sure what the hell it is?  Fake?  Old out or date stuff?  Dumped at the  last of the manufacture as it is not offered anymore?

       Thailand is a dumping ground for western companies.  After VIOXX was removed for the market for killing lots of people it was prescribed for me at St. Louis hospital for a heel spur.  Worked good but when I found out what it was I flushed down the toilet.   You can lead a person to google but you can't make them read high quality sites like the original company website.  CDC, NIH, NSF studies!  They often go for low quality advice columns that help them confirm what a good idea they are having.  

[Rolanddrums]

Thanks for the concern and patronising comments but your not listening to me . My c..k is bigger /harder/for longer..ask the Mrs . My muscles are bigger more defined. I feel act/react better . I know what placebo is ...this aint it. You guys keep pumping in Test in large quantities by needle . Me I'll stick with much lower doses of Andriol  Testocaps for the reasons explained. Yes I do monitor my BP , I have a cheap digital monitor. Andriol Testocaps sell by the crate load every day in Patts . If they didnt work why the hell would everyone keep taking them? No they are not copies or out of date . Try reading up more . Yes bodybuilders poo poo them as they want massive results which they wont give unless taking large quantities. I don't want to look like that thank you . Lean athletic & toned I like ,so easy to overdo it and look like a freak show . I've taken a slow gentle approach with good diet and some exercise..I'm happy with it . Happy to listen to opinions ..doesn't mean I have to take your advice.though..I have my own mind.

ps Maybe I don't think 'I need' Test ? ....Maybe I just want a little .

[dontoearth]

5 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Thanks for the concern and patronising comments but your not listening to me . My c..k is bigger /harder/for longer..ask the Mrs . My muscles are bigger more defined. I feel act/react better . I know what placebo is ...this aint it. You guys keep pumping in Test in large quantities by needle . Me I'll stick with much lower doses of Andriol  Testocaps for the reasons explained. Yes I do monitor my BP , I have a cheap digital monitor. Andriol Testocaps sell by the crate load every day in Patts . If they didnt work why the hell would everyone keep taking them? No they are not copies or out of date . Try reading up more . Yes bodybuilders poo poo them as they want massive results which they wont give unless taking large quantities. I don't want to look like that thank you . Lean athletic & toned I like ,so easy to overdo it and look like a freak show . I've taken a slow gentle approach with good diet and some exercise..Im happy with it . Happy to listen to opinions ..doesn't mean I have to take your advice.though..I have my own mind.

     Once again Placebo effect is real it is just the results are not attributed to the drugs.  Your happiness and feelings might be from the Mrs.   Take her out for a nice time!  It confounds even medical researchers and few understand it.  I certainly don't.   Would not dispute your better feelings.  Glad you monitor your BP rather than rely on your feelings about your health.  Andriol is no longer in manufacture so I have no idea what they are selling in Patts.  Patts is well known for fakes, out of dates, and copies from India and China. That doesn't mean the drug is not good but...hey the video I saw of them making drugs in a concrete mixer in India did not look so sanitary to me.   There was that chinese viagara made out of concrete in the news a few years back.   Too each his own!  We have all spoken our piece.  I like your general idea of getting healthier and enjoying more sex.  I certainly have that as a top goal myself.   It is one of life's great pleasure and everyone in our age group is looking for a way to extend the number of years that pleasure of available.  I am sure!   There are many approaches and I prefer mine.  You prefer yours.  This is from a website I googled,  I wish you the best of health and greatest of luck.

"Andriol is no longer being manufactured for sale in Canada."   

http://chealth.canoe.com/drug/getdrug/andriol

       

[Rolanddrums]

Hi, Im not from Canada nor do I live there . If not made for sale in Canada it doesn't concern me .It's Andriol Testocaps you need to be searching for. Maybe searching just Andriol is leading you up the garden path I don't know. Available from many places in Thailand. Manufactured in the Netherlands btw. Concerning placebo it was you that were using Androgel for some time believing it to be good until your Doc told you it had not increased your Test one bit . Me on the other hand used it and within a month or so was fully aware of it being useless . Im not easily brainwashed just because someone says ( eg the manufacturer)  it works .   

[tropo]

7 hours ago, Rolanddrums said:

 . You guys keep pumping in Test in large quantities by needle . Me I'll stick with much lower doses of Andriol   

2

That comment indicates clearly you don't read or understand anything I've bothered to post here.

 

TRT is not about "pumping in Test in large quantities". Let's say you're taking Andriol Testocaps at 4 a day. That's 4 x 40mg x 7 = 1120mg of testosterone ester per week. Compare that to a typical injectable dose of 250mg every 10 - 21 days. Let's take a higher dose of TRT at 250mg/14 days. That's 125mg compared to your 1120mg per week. If we work on an estimated 7% bioavailability of Andiol you're getting about 80mg of testosterone per week. You will get a slow shutdown and shrinkage at that rate, even though you won't won't notice it day by day. There is no magic formula here. If you add testosterone to your system, your body will slow down and stop producing it. Of course, you won't get tests, so you won't know. I'll put money on it. You take 4 caps of Andriol per day for 6 months, your own production will end up lower than the low end of normal. 

[Rolanddrums]

If can stop saying 'I don't read/understand what you write' ..I'd appreciate it . I do read and I do understand . My balls are actually slightly bigger than 3-4 months ago as it happens . Having said that I am monitoring them daily in case they do shrink . As Ive said I'm using small doses AND very good diet Im hoping my natural test production will work alongside the Andriol . I have read can be the case. If I end up needing or wanting Andriol for ever its fine by me as I like the results. I know your quite knowledgeable and had some experience Tropo so I like your input when done in a less 'I know it all' or trying to dictate what I/others should be doing manner . (Seen on a lot of your posts tbh)  Lets keep it cool and friendly . Just makes TV forum a better place ..cheers.

[HidyHo]

55 minutes ago, tropo said:

That comment indicates clearly you don't read or understand anything I've bothered to post here.

 

You got to know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away,
And know when to run

 

- "The Gamblers" - Kenny Rogers

[dontoearth]

7 hours ago, Rolanddrums said:

Hi, Im not from Canada nor do I live there . If not made for sale in Canada it doesn't concern me .It's Andriol Testocaps you need to be searching for. Maybe searching just Andriol is leading you up the garden path I don't know. Available from many places in Thailand. Manufactured in the Netherlands btw. Concerning placebo it was you that were using Androgel for some time believing it to be good until your Doc told you it had not increased your Test one bit . Me on the other hand used it and within a month or so was fully aware of it being useless . Im not easily brainwashed just because someone says ( eg the manufacturer)  it works .   

   Just a few things.    My doctor never said Androgel didn't work.  I am from the US and they never admit the drugs don't work or have side effects.  No nasty medical malpractice suits for them!  I ordered both sets of lab test and read the lab test myself.  My order of the second lab test was because I knew the Androgel was not working. 

    My doctor in the US could not prescribe injectable for low T.  Injectable is not approved for that purpose.  But If I were considering female to male surgery I could get it.  I am not making this up!   There is an obvious reason why I could not do that. Its just not possible to get there. I get that here from a medical doctor that runs a sports clinic and performs the necessary test.  Tropo does the same due diligence all on his own.  He in fact pointed me to an abstract about TRT and PSA which I was not aware of at all.  Many thanks again for your insights Tropo.

     If you read the makers site for Androgel.  You would need to dig down deep into the two studies that were used to get approval to market the drug.  In both studies the results were that it improved 80% of patients but had no effect on 20%.  I had to dig this all out myself.  

      If the makers of Andriol have approval for the drug in the US or European union they are obligated to publish those studies on their website.  Tropo might have gone over it based on his analysis of absorption rates.   He is most certainly doing some advanced math for us.  More than I would do!

      I don't mind reading medical research and the numerical analysis.  There are a lot of people on here that do just that.  There are also a lot of people on here that believe in Bro Science. 

       To each his own.  Live and let live!  

       Your strategy is ok with me for you.  It just isn't a strategy I would use for me.  And I can tell you feel likewise. That's cool. 

      Good Luck to you.  Good Health to you.  I hope everything works out fine.