Jingthing Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just now, KhonKaenKowboy said: The high courts already ruled that even groups like the American Nazis have a right to protest. Skokie, Illinois comes to mind. That is true. They do have that right. But they don't have the right to engage in extremist white supremacist TERRORISM. Next ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, sirineou said: I respectfully disagree I am 60 years old, and have being politically active, with a left leaning since high school. In my life I have being involved in many of these , both in the US, and Europe , and in most instances where opposing functions are allowed to mix it up it always ends the same way with the predictable results. I know of events where the police infiltrated the protesters and threw molotov cocktails at their own giving the the excuse to retaliate. And the opposite. Discipline , however difficult is always the best advice,often these events are infiltrated by "Agent provocateurs " with their own agendas If you have idiots marching , armed with helmets , shields and clubs, and you block their way. What do you expect to happen????? When they crossed the lawful line. the police would had dealt with them Stay in the sidelines, ridicule them,show them for the idiots they are. Ridicule, discounts them, engagment give's them power. So ask yourself , what is your goal? discounts them or give them power? I understand the impulse to engage, but trust me, it is counter productive I don't completely disagree with you. The counter protesters could have handled themselves better. The police certainly could've done a better job. But they had every right to be there and a right, nay, a duty, to be there at THAT time. Hatefulness has to be confronted when it happens, not: "oh, yeah? Well you just wait till tomorrow when things won't be so confrontational, THEN we'll confront you!" I don't think that's the way to face down haters. To be clear, I'm not condoning violence, but the response to hate cannot be seen to be meek in any way, otherwise they've partly won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, sirineou said: And unfortunately , no one in Charlottesville belonged to that side. Not true. And what about the cops who were only trying to do their job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, rijb said: Not true. And what about the cops who were only trying to do their job? The majority were from out of town / out of state including the murderous white supremacist terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just now, Jingthing said: The majority were from out of town / out of state including the murderous white supremacist terrorists. I saw a picture of a black cop trying to guard those clowns. He was just doing his job. You have to respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, rijb said: Every country has to deal with hate and ignorance in their own back yard. However, the world prefers to focus on America's dirty laundry. Well in this thread certainly because that is what the thread is about. Yes just about every country have their extremist groups and most are dismissed by the masses as just nutjobs. But in the USA at the moment the country is badly divided and with Trumps volatile outbursts it is having a crisis of huge proportions. Therefore all eyes are on the POTUS and what lunacy he continues to bring to the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, rijb said: Not true. And what about the cops who were only trying to do their job? I agree, the counter protesters should have let the cops do their job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, rijb said: Every country has to deal with hate and ignorance in their own back yard. However, the world prefers to focus on America's dirty laundry. With skidmarked knickers the size of bathrobes, who can look away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobFord Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Every country has to deal with hate and ignorance in their own back yard. However, the world prefers to focus on America's dirty laundry.Hate to tell you this but your America is expected to be an example to the world. Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijb Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Only in the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chou Anou Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 9 hours ago, lovelomsak said: What gets me wondering about America. Is if it is the land of freedom of expression why do people always have to disrupt right wing protests? Do they not have the right to free speech also? They should be allowed their say. No one has to listen no one has to care what they say but they have the right to say it.If right wingers used violence to stop anything they would be the bad guys and go to jail. If right wing protests have violent thugs show up and destroy the protest it is ok. This is not the American way that America tries to say it is.Seems as though violence against right wingers is ok. Quite a double standard as I see it speaking as an outsider. There are not simply "right wing protesters." There are NAZIS. We KILL Nazis in the US. Visitors applying for a visa, or immigrants applying for permanent residency in the US, to this day, must specifically denounce Naziism on their application. My uncle killed Nazis in France in WWII, and I'll do it on the streets of my city if it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 36 minutes ago, Thakkar said: I don't completely disagree with you. The counter protesters could have handled themselves better. The police certainly could've done a better job. But they had every right to be there and a right, nay, a duty, to be there at THAT time. Hatefulness has to be confronted when it happens, not: "oh, yeah? Well you just wait till tomorrow when things won't be so confrontational, THEN we'll confront you!" I don't think that's the way to face down haters. To be clear, I'm not condoning violence, but the response to hate cannot be seen to be meek in any way, otherwise they've partly won. They did not necessarily had to wait until tomorrow that was simply one of the options and perhaps not a good one . they could had simply lined up the sides of their route with a sea of opposition Booooing them all the way. Showing the world that they are a minority opinion, and that we are better than them . But even that is dangerous because if I was an Alt right organiser I would had placed "agent provocateurs" in the sidelines . in fact this might be exactly what has happened. Anyway as one get's older , diminishing levels of testosterone can be liberating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobFord Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 There are not simply "right wing protesters." There are NAZIS. We KILL Nazis in the US. Visitors applying for a visa, or immigrants applying for permanent residency in the US, to this day, must specifically denounce Naziism on their application. My uncle killed Nazis in France in WWII, and I'll do it on the streets of my city if it comes to that. My father said, "they paid me 50 cents a day for five years to kill Nazis, and I won't start liking them now". Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, RobFord said: My father said, "they paid me 50 cents a day for five years to kill Nazis, and I won't start liking them now". Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nazi-far-right-adolf-hitler-salute-city-second-world-war-a7890731.html I'm not saying a word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 30 minutes ago, sirineou said: They did not necessarily had to wait until tomorrow that was simply one of the options and perhaps not a good one . they could had simply lined up the sides of their route with a sea of opposition Booooing them all the way. Showing the world that they are a minority opinion, and that we are better than them . But even that is dangerous because if I was an Alt right organiser I would had placed "agent provocateurs" in the sidelines . in fact this might be exactly what has happened. Anyway as one get's older , diminishing levels of testosterone can be liberating Whenever the counter protesters decided to hold their counter protest, whatever form their counter protests took and wherever they had held it—the provocateurs could have/would have infiltrated if they were so inclined. That's why the right time to confront a hateful display is AT THE TIME that hatefulness is happening. Testosterone is not the fuel; a sense of justice and the ability to discern right from wrong is the fuel. I respect your opinion, and I think I get where you're coming from—that the counter protesters risked undermining their own cause. But the time to do this was the time they did it. The way they did it could've been slightly finessed. Any finessing I can think of may not have prevented the violence, which, again, I condemn, regardless of its origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Grouse said: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nazi-far-right-adolf-hitler-salute-city-second-world-war-a7890731.html I'm not saying a word! Well, if you insist. Schadenfreude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobFord Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 "Stay in the sidelines, ridicule them,show them for the idiots they are. Ridicule, discounts them, engagment give's them power. So ask yourself , what is your goal?" 555. Ridicule is soo easy. Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhonKaenKowboy Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 My family owns a million in real estate, about 20 miles from C'ville. Pop says he is more concerned about Bryce Harper's knee, than one dead protester, who probably was not a student. Cops in helicopters? Kind of like cops on steroids....usually not a good thing, but all too common. How many were killed in Chicago this weekend? Before Jefferson used slaves to build UVA, the colonist were forced to attend the Church of England, and faced whippings and fines if they didn't, yet every county in the State is named after some shitehole in England...perhaps those people have a more legitimate beef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobFord Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 My family owns a million in real estate, about 20 miles from C'ville. Pop says he is more concerned about Bryce Harper's knee, than one dead protester, who probably was not a student. Cops in helicopters? Kind of like cops on steroids....usually not a good thing, but all too common. How many were killed in Chicago this weekend? Before Jefferson used slaves to build UVA, the colonist were forced to attend the Church of England, and faced whippings and fines if they didn't, yet every county in the State is named after some shitehole in England...perhaps those people have a more legitimate beef.You are some kind of nut.Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 My family owns a million in real estate, about 20 miles from C'ville. Pop says he is more concerned about Bryce Harper's knee, than one dead protester, who probably was not a student. Cops in helicopters? Kind of like cops on steroids....usually not a good thing, but all too common. How many were killed in Chicago this weekend? Before Jefferson used slaves to build UVA, the colonist were forced to attend the Church of England, and faced whippings and fines if they didn't, yet every county in the State is named after some shitehole in England...perhaps those people have a more legitimate beef.Your Pop sounds lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhonKaenKowboy Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 780 homicides in Chicago last year. Should we blame Trump for that, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhonKaenKowboy Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 The ACLU sided with the American Nazis in Skokie, 1978. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, KhonKaenKowboy said: The ACLU sided with the American Nazis in Skokie, 1978. Translation: The ACLU defended the American Nazis right to demonstrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 24 minutes ago, RobFord said: You are some kind of nut. His initials: KKK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, iReason said: His initials: KKK. Kooky Kinda Kook? *also, kan't spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCauto Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 hours ago, sirineou said: I respectfully disagree with you and state again. You are only for free speech when you allow that which you disagree with otherwise you engage at a different form of fascism. I am , as we all should be against all forms of fasism No disrespect to you, you have have being pleasant and reasonable in this little conversation we had, and I appreciate you taking the time to engage me in this , But I don't know how many different ways I can make the same point. I understand your point and respectfully disagree. I believe you do need to confront evil, and if you don't then you normalize it. I still maintain that anyone is allowed to say what they like, but they're in no way guaranteed either the peace/forum/venue to do so nor are they insulated from the consequences of whatever it is they say. I do believe that providing them with equivalence damages the overall quality of dialogue and makes us dumber for it. night and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lungmi Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 6 hours ago, Jingthing said: It's worth noting, because many people assume a town in the south is necessarily right wing, that the good people of Charlottesville voted 80 percent for Hillary Clinton and also voted in the city council that approved the removal of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So that was all legal and democratic. Why did white supremacist / Nazi / KKK / alt-right / trumpist invaders in Charlottesville feel so emboldened now? Obviously ... they now have a friend in the white house. I'm sorry, I compared in a recent post Trump with a gorilla. I beg pardon to gorillas., they have more inner ethics than the big Duck, oh no, no, sorry , I love ducks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Senator Hatch Office (@senorrinhatch) 13/8/17, 07:41 We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thakkar Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 On Trump all but endorsing Nazis by condemning "many sides" when there was only one side in need of a direct rebuke: Gady Epstein (@gadyepstein) 13/8/17, 08:26 Not many presidents could make threatening nuclear war the second worst thing he did in a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Are some republicans starting to get a bit of a backbone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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